RIAT - Sunday cancelled.
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Park and view is still on for monday with tickets available on the gate. I'd guess that knowing the disappointment this weekend, the a/c leaving will put on a bit of a show, weather permitting. I gather a few a/c might have left today, but the F22's should still be there as their displaying at Farnborough tomorrow. Think i'll be taking a drive up. 
Anyone any idea what time things will be kicking off?
Anyone any idea what time things will be kicking off?
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By Dan Gerous
And why ever not? You bought your tickets and that clause is clearly printed.............therefore in buying you agreed to that...........contract!
And before anyone starts talking about County Courts etc., just remember;
1) This is a Military Establishment, not a public venue.
2) Fairford is technically American soil
To be honest, having seen several forums where folks have been whining and moaning, and having a pop at RIAT, my view would be................."read the conditions of sale TSB (Tough sh*t baby)"
Cheers
Stew
They wouldn't dare invoke that clause.
And before anyone starts talking about County Courts etc., just remember;
1) This is a Military Establishment, not a public venue.
2) Fairford is technically American soil
To be honest, having seen several forums where folks have been whining and moaning, and having a pop at RIAT, my view would be................."read the conditions of sale TSB (Tough sh*t baby)"
Cheers
Stew
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Good post Al R, as usual. I especially agree with your suggestion of complacency from the organisers, while still sympathising with the incredibly awkward position they found themselves in as the week went on. And, as I posted earlier, still think pulling the 'on the day' tickets for Saturday was a short-sighted thing to do. I dare say RIAT is an incredibly big project to work on, but it's not that complicated at its basic level - especially stuff like the plan for ticket sales. Perhaps next year they'll ask themselves more 'what ifs' and a degree of humility won't do any harm.
Rafair7643, while the organisers might well be within their rights to refuse a refund, doing so would spell the end of RIAT, so I think they're wise to take a hit this year for the longer term good. You're right that a buyer would be subject to the printed terms and conditions, but seriously pissing off your entire customer base is suicidal. As for your argument that RIAT is a military establishment, correct so far, but by opening the base to the general public (as opposed to Friday's invitees), it becomes a public event. Moreover, while Fairford is on lease to the US, I understand it does not have embassy type status, and remains British soil, hence the RAF Fairford title. And even if that bit is wrong, RIAT Ltd (or whatever they call themselves) is a British company and therefore subject to British trading law, which would include being able to be taken to court.
Rafair7643, while the organisers might well be within their rights to refuse a refund, doing so would spell the end of RIAT, so I think they're wise to take a hit this year for the longer term good. You're right that a buyer would be subject to the printed terms and conditions, but seriously pissing off your entire customer base is suicidal. As for your argument that RIAT is a military establishment, correct so far, but by opening the base to the general public (as opposed to Friday's invitees), it becomes a public event. Moreover, while Fairford is on lease to the US, I understand it does not have embassy type status, and remains British soil, hence the RAF Fairford title. And even if that bit is wrong, RIAT Ltd (or whatever they call themselves) is a British company and therefore subject to British trading law, which would include being able to be taken to court.
The organisers should have expected a month's rain in 72 hours ??? and planned for it ???... are you guys for real ???
Please folks .. look out of the window occassionally - and not the one Bill Gates invented - .. there's a REAL WORLD out there, with real problems and sometimes no sensible solutions. Fairford is part of the Cotswold Water Park area ... note the word WATER ... the water table is very high, and there was ABNORMAL rainfall... hence it flooded.. is that concept so difficult ??? I'll repeat it ..
Abnormal rain = flooded ground
A contingency plan can only cover a foreseen event ... 31 days rain in 3 was not foreseen ... ok .. make a plan in case it happens again .. but these folks are NOT clairvoyent ... apparently many of the writers here suffer with/are capable of 20/20 hindsight .......so easy that way isn't it ??
Having seen some of the work that was done to try and keep it going, I would like to say THANK YOU to those folks who worked long and hard, and still ended up with nothing to show for all their efforts... there were many of you .. and every single one deserves praise.
Please folks .. look out of the window occassionally - and not the one Bill Gates invented - .. there's a REAL WORLD out there, with real problems and sometimes no sensible solutions. Fairford is part of the Cotswold Water Park area ... note the word WATER ... the water table is very high, and there was ABNORMAL rainfall... hence it flooded.. is that concept so difficult ??? I'll repeat it ..
Abnormal rain = flooded ground
A contingency plan can only cover a foreseen event ... 31 days rain in 3 was not foreseen ... ok .. make a plan in case it happens again .. but these folks are NOT clairvoyent ... apparently many of the writers here suffer with/are capable of 20/20 hindsight .......so easy that way isn't it ??
Having seen some of the work that was done to try and keep it going, I would like to say THANK YOU to those folks who worked long and hard, and still ended up with nothing to show for all their efforts... there were many of you .. and every single one deserves praise.
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I dare say RIAT is an incredibly big project to work on, but it's not that complicated at its basic level - especially stuff like the plan for ticket sales. Perhaps next year they'll ask themselves more 'what ifs' and a degree of humility won't do any harm.
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I didn't say have a plan in place for everything, but at very least have considered the top 10 things that could stop the show. After 'major terrorist attack the day/week before', 'UK weather' should not have been much higher up the list, especially in view of the floods last year which had a major impact on local areas. Volcanos, locust swarms and alien invasion would have been really unforeseen - crap UK weather isn't gobsmacking.
I'll reiterate, I feel very sorry for the organisers and am certainly sat here with the benefit of hindsight, but to be perfectly frank, I would have considered all sorts of options if I was organising, just as I have done at lesser events that I've chaired. I'm not saying I could have done better, or that necessarily anything practical could have been done, but I'd have looked at it before last week.
I'll reiterate, I feel very sorry for the organisers and am certainly sat here with the benefit of hindsight, but to be perfectly frank, I would have considered all sorts of options if I was organising, just as I have done at lesser events that I've chaired. I'm not saying I could have done better, or that necessarily anything practical could have been done, but I'd have looked at it before last week.
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Maybe its time to move the event to another, British, location? thats if , as im gleaming from posters in this thread , the USAF are no longer being as co-operative as they once were.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
And why ever not? You bought your tickets and that clause is clearly printed.............therefore in buying you agreed to that...........contract!
No!...You don't get to read that bit until after the tickets are in your hand.
i.e. After you have handed over your money, you then find out that if it is cancelled you may lose it!
That, mon ami, is not right.
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RAFAir, RAF Fairford is not American soil, far from it, very far from it, hence MDPA not USAF perform perimeter security, hence protestors who break in have to be served with tea and biscuits and every aircraft which lands at RAF Fairford must have MOD approval.
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Has anyone asked the question that with:
1. Ticket refunds (unless the legal eagles decide a clause on the back of the ticket can be invoked after all)
2. Presumed refund for exhibitiors who pay four figure sums for their pitches (I am guessing, so by all means enlighten us anyone who knows)
3. Lack of sales on merchandise (would a t-shirt for an airshow that didn't happen fetch more or less on eBay?!)
4. No show DVD to sell come autumn
...that RAFCTE faces bankruptcy?
1. Ticket refunds (unless the legal eagles decide a clause on the back of the ticket can be invoked after all)
2. Presumed refund for exhibitiors who pay four figure sums for their pitches (I am guessing, so by all means enlighten us anyone who knows)
3. Lack of sales on merchandise (would a t-shirt for an airshow that didn't happen fetch more or less on eBay?!)
4. No show DVD to sell come autumn
...that RAFCTE faces bankruptcy?
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Speeddial:
Aha, you missed out the word "technically" which I used when relating to RAF Fairford being US territory. (standard cop out 
)
Howsoever, I bow to your better knowledge regarding the status of the base.
Off to thrash myself for the error.
Stew
RAFAir, RAF Fairford is not American soil, far from it, very far from it, hence MDPA not USAF perform perimeter security, hence protestors who break in have to be served with tea and biscuits and every aircraft which lands at RAF Fairford must have MOD approval
)Howsoever, I bow to your better knowledge regarding the status of the base.
Off to thrash myself for the error.
Stew
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SilsoeSid:
Caveat Emptor dear boy, Caveat Emptor.
The onus is upon you, the purchaser, to be aware of the conditions (which are on their website) before you enter into the contract.
Cheers
Stew
No!...You don't get to read that bit until after the tickets are in your hand.
i.e. After you have handed over your money, you then find out that if it is cancelled you may lose it!
i.e. After you have handed over your money, you then find out that if it is cancelled you may lose it!
The onus is upon you, the purchaser, to be aware of the conditions (which are on their website) before you enter into the contract.
Cheers
Stew
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Spoke to chap today who had tickets for yesterday purchased on the internet through Ticketmaster. He received an e mail yesterday from Ticketmaster syaing that he would receive a refund as the show was cancelled. The refund was made into his bank account last night.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
The onus is upon you, the purchaser, to be aware of the conditions (which are on their website) before you enter into the contract.
Bit of a poor one that. Opens the doors for any seller of anything to open an obscure website of terms and conditions. When product is faulty, the purchaser is at fault for not reading the unknown and possibly inaccessible website t&c's.
I don't think so!
Buyer beware may be quoted, (Caveat Emptor is posh talk for I have just ripped off the punter), but surely sales of goods must apply somewhere.
Something like the product not being fit for purpose!
Bit like buying a phonecard one evening and the next day BT deactivating all the cardphones.
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But being "fit for purpose" doesn't come into RIAT does it?
If they charged you money, let you in and then there were only static displays, perhaps you could make a case for it not being fit for purpose as an Air Display.
You mention "the product was faulty", but again that does not apply. There was nothing wrong with the product, just the weather, which no-one could have "reasonably" predicted.
If RIAT had decided to invoke their conditions of sale, yes they would have hacked off a lot of the punters, but they would have been well within their rights to do so.
Cheers
Stew
If they charged you money, let you in and then there were only static displays, perhaps you could make a case for it not being fit for purpose as an Air Display.
You mention "the product was faulty", but again that does not apply. There was nothing wrong with the product, just the weather, which no-one could have "reasonably" predicted.
If RIAT had decided to invoke their conditions of sale, yes they would have hacked off a lot of the punters, but they would have been well within their rights to do so.
Cheers
Stew
2. Presumed refund for exhibitiors who pay four figure sums for their pitches (I am guessing, so by all means enlighten us anyone who knows)
3. Lack of sales on merchandise (would a t-shirt for an airshow that didn't happen fetch more or less on eBay?!)
4. No show DVD to sell come autumn
...that RAFCTE faces bankruptcy?
3. Lack of sales on merchandise (would a t-shirt for an airshow that didn't happen fetch more or less on eBay?!)
4. No show DVD to sell come autumn
...that RAFCTE faces bankruptcy?
4. Was involved in the filming last year - found out they only sell a few thousand DVDs & RAFBFT's take is minimal.
The organisers certainly won't be able to afford any c*ck-ups or acts-of-God next year.
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I was there on Fri and the ground was not just boggy. The 1-2 inches of surface water was flowing downhill in a mini river. IMHO the suggestion of having alternate car parks was only half the story. The stands, stalls and food outlets on the grass would also have been inaccessible to the vast majority of normal people (obviously Glastonbury diehards would have been in their element). As most of the stands have some kind of tented/vehicle based coverage to prevent damage by rain it would not have been practical to move them onto the handstandings (always assuming there wa room).
Even if there had been alternate car parking, i think there would still have been complaints about the lack of stalls etc; in short, the organisers were caught between a rock and a hard place by exceptional weather.
Even if there had been alternate car parking, i think there would still have been complaints about the lack of stalls etc; in short, the organisers were caught between a rock and a hard place by exceptional weather.
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Instead of protecting these stout hearted chaps who give up so much of their free time doing this show, your shots would only infuriate me more. Why on earth were things allowed to get like that?
Cretin.
And the other moron talking about ticket conditions needs to read ANY other ticket he buys to see what criteria are written on the back. That 'mon ami' is just not bright...
