RIAT - Sunday cancelled.
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the handling of the decision not to allow tickets on Saturday
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Rafair,
Speaking as a biker, would it be too much then, to expect plod to get a grip of the local farmers round these 'ere parts 24/7? The mud that they leave lying around is a shocker and I see nothing wrong in a RIAT service provider being held legally responsible for the hardened surface he is contractually obliged to lay if the original one isn't acceptable (to do otherwise smacks of gashness - I'm sure there's a better word, but its early). I know its the done thing to cite 'safety' as the 'explain nothing, justify nothing' all transcending reason behind everything these days, but if that means that the organisers have to ensure that cars being transferred back to the roads are in a roadworthy state, then so be it - whats wrong with that? Get some power washes or whatever in, thats not my job and I expect it to have been catered for. Its one thing being laudable enough to generate hundreds of thousands of pounds for charity, but its another thing doing it with an origami business model that is as robust and soluble as the parking arrangements.
The other event this weekend has been the Festival of Greed, down at Goodwood. I've done about 10 now and thought I would give it a miss this year and do RIAT but just compare the PPruNe Fairford experience with the Pistonheads Goodwood one, below. As a former trader there, and a committed attendee, I know that 'the bloody weather' underpins everything and if a landed toff can get his life sorted out, and swing into action a plan as far back as Tuesday or Wednesday of last week, why can't RIAT which one presumes, bristles with ex military types anyway?
I know its not the end of the world - I haven't lost a great deal and you've got to put 'disasters' like this into context when considering that its a military based event anyway and what the airmen it represents are doing 24/7 on our's and the troops behalf (and other horrendous happenings going on about the world at the moment). I simply lucked out and went for the wrong option (you can't crack me, I'm a rubber duck), sh#t happens and I did save myself a fortune in fat boy burgers. But the public expects and deserves better these days though, and certainly from a blue chip event such as this. Thats what annoys me - that we are catered for so badly by those in whom we place faith.. we get let down by politicians, utility companies, banks.. you name it. Hang on, I'll have a grumpy old man coffee and the world won't seem so bad.
Pistonheads and BBC video stuff:
Bit worried about the state of the Ground
BBC NEWS | UK | Fairford air show a washout
PS: I wonder if those who were responsible for the initial move into Ploče might have anything to add..?
Speaking as a biker, would it be too much then, to expect plod to get a grip of the local farmers round these 'ere parts 24/7? The mud that they leave lying around is a shocker and I see nothing wrong in a RIAT service provider being held legally responsible for the hardened surface he is contractually obliged to lay if the original one isn't acceptable (to do otherwise smacks of gashness - I'm sure there's a better word, but its early). I know its the done thing to cite 'safety' as the 'explain nothing, justify nothing' all transcending reason behind everything these days, but if that means that the organisers have to ensure that cars being transferred back to the roads are in a roadworthy state, then so be it - whats wrong with that? Get some power washes or whatever in, thats not my job and I expect it to have been catered for. Its one thing being laudable enough to generate hundreds of thousands of pounds for charity, but its another thing doing it with an origami business model that is as robust and soluble as the parking arrangements.
The other event this weekend has been the Festival of Greed, down at Goodwood. I've done about 10 now and thought I would give it a miss this year and do RIAT but just compare the PPruNe Fairford experience with the Pistonheads Goodwood one, below. As a former trader there, and a committed attendee, I know that 'the bloody weather' underpins everything and if a landed toff can get his life sorted out, and swing into action a plan as far back as Tuesday or Wednesday of last week, why can't RIAT which one presumes, bristles with ex military types anyway?
I know its not the end of the world - I haven't lost a great deal and you've got to put 'disasters' like this into context when considering that its a military based event anyway and what the airmen it represents are doing 24/7 on our's and the troops behalf (and other horrendous happenings going on about the world at the moment). I simply lucked out and went for the wrong option (you can't crack me, I'm a rubber duck), sh#t happens and I did save myself a fortune in fat boy burgers. But the public expects and deserves better these days though, and certainly from a blue chip event such as this. Thats what annoys me - that we are catered for so badly by those in whom we place faith.. we get let down by politicians, utility companies, banks.. you name it. Hang on, I'll have a grumpy old man coffee and the world won't seem so bad.
Pistonheads and BBC video stuff:
Bit worried about the state of the Ground
BBC NEWS | UK | Fairford air show a washout
PS: I wonder if those who were responsible for the initial move into Ploče might have anything to add..?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Besides the possibily insured losses on entrance tickets the probably uninsured losses will include those who travelled from overseas, the punters who arrived the day before and stayed in hotel or b&b
The hangers on who run all the trade stores.
The corporations in the hospitality tents, unless they were insured too.
The hangers on who run all the trade stores.
The corporations in the hospitality tents, unless they were insured too.
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Time for RIAT Contingency Planning
Some thoughts:
(a) RIAT does not appear to have a contingency plan for rain affecting car parks.
(b) A decent contingency plan would have seen 3 or 4 remote park & ride sites (other replies have suggested Kemble as one ....)
(c) Last year in July it rained so much that many towns in the area flooded - see BBC NEWS | In Pictures | Your pictures: Gloucestershire flooding
(d) Last Wednesday there was a months rain in one day
(e) There is a trend in July UK weather !
(f) I imagine that the Queen thing on Friday and its 5000 visitors created a lot of the mud
(g) The RIAT organisers therefore appear to have missed out a major risk to the event, appear to have no contingency for this risk and appear to have done too little since the heavy rain of Wednesday
(h) Its Sunday morning now and sunny in Bristol ...
(a) RIAT does not appear to have a contingency plan for rain affecting car parks.
(b) A decent contingency plan would have seen 3 or 4 remote park & ride sites (other replies have suggested Kemble as one ....)
(c) Last year in July it rained so much that many towns in the area flooded - see BBC NEWS | In Pictures | Your pictures: Gloucestershire flooding
(d) Last Wednesday there was a months rain in one day
(e) There is a trend in July UK weather !
(f) I imagine that the Queen thing on Friday and its 5000 visitors created a lot of the mud
(g) The RIAT organisers therefore appear to have missed out a major risk to the event, appear to have no contingency for this risk and appear to have done too little since the heavy rain of Wednesday
(h) Its Sunday morning now and sunny in Bristol ...
Champagne anyone...?
I can't believe people are still chuntering about this.
Whilst I'm quite sure all you armchair logisticians could happily organise one of the world's biggest airshows please spare a thought for those clearly less gifted souls that actually thought they'd have a crack at it. Comparisons with the Festival of Speed or another show, fete or fair are irrelevant. Put the FoS at Fairford, rain on it as per last week and then let your "landed toff" sort it out
Uninsured losses? Tough. The traders all went with a view to make a pile of cash. Hospitality? Do me a favour. People need to accept that sh*t happens - someone else isn't always to blame and sometimes you just need to take these things on the chin and get on with it.
Whilst I'm quite sure all you armchair logisticians could happily organise one of the world's biggest airshows please spare a thought for those clearly less gifted souls that actually thought they'd have a crack at it. Comparisons with the Festival of Speed or another show, fete or fair are irrelevant. Put the FoS at Fairford, rain on it as per last week and then let your "landed toff" sort it out
Uninsured losses? Tough. The traders all went with a view to make a pile of cash. Hospitality? Do me a favour. People need to accept that sh*t happens - someone else isn't always to blame and sometimes you just need to take these things on the chin and get on with it.
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StopStart. Have you no compassion? No heart? No soul? It is obvious - The Daily Mail isn't published today, so all the moaning armchair experts have to be 'disgusted' and 'ashamed' somewhere - the miserable gets have just chosen here. 
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Stopstart,
After 38 years, if there are less gifted souls still doing it, they perhaps should either move over or stop delivering promises they can't keep? The "..aw, bless - its just a bunch of enthusiasts having a crack" won't wash (ahem) anymore if you want your product to be known as 'Royal' and the premier event. This isn't rocket science, this is simply a matter of caring for your customers and conducting business effectively in a midern age.
My point about FoS is that the rain contingency was catered for as far back as a week ago today, and measures were taken to mitigate matters. Sure, I'm dissapointed but I have put it in context and if this was my event, then yes.. I would have done things differently. Hey, I have the benefit of a soapbox from which to be holier than thou, but I have been involved with organising some top end automotive events which have the default setting of assuming that its going to pour down, and they extract back from that basis.
I have worked with companies which communicate with a show's ticket buyers via something as simple as SMS in the weeks preceding events and almost daily in the run up, highlighting snags, tips and confirming for instance, routes in. Something as simple as that via SMS makes life so much easier on the day and is dirt cheap to achieve. Not only is it a great marketing tool but it makes things better, and you get the sense of being a part of a great event, and not being there just as a one man revenue stream is enhanced. This is easy to do - this has nothing to do with being so uncouth as to snipe at glorious failing English amatuers and hell, what should we expect for our £130 anyway?!
So yes.. although I know that sh#t happens, and work these days doesn't allow it, I am as moist as the carparks at the prospect of having a crack at this one.
Still smiling.
After 38 years, if there are less gifted souls still doing it, they perhaps should either move over or stop delivering promises they can't keep? The "..aw, bless - its just a bunch of enthusiasts having a crack" won't wash (ahem) anymore if you want your product to be known as 'Royal' and the premier event. This isn't rocket science, this is simply a matter of caring for your customers and conducting business effectively in a midern age.
My point about FoS is that the rain contingency was catered for as far back as a week ago today, and measures were taken to mitigate matters. Sure, I'm dissapointed but I have put it in context and if this was my event, then yes.. I would have done things differently. Hey, I have the benefit of a soapbox from which to be holier than thou, but I have been involved with organising some top end automotive events which have the default setting of assuming that its going to pour down, and they extract back from that basis.
I have worked with companies which communicate with a show's ticket buyers via something as simple as SMS in the weeks preceding events and almost daily in the run up, highlighting snags, tips and confirming for instance, routes in. Something as simple as that via SMS makes life so much easier on the day and is dirt cheap to achieve. Not only is it a great marketing tool but it makes things better, and you get the sense of being a part of a great event, and not being there just as a one man revenue stream is enhanced. This is easy to do - this has nothing to do with being so uncouth as to snipe at glorious failing English amatuers and hell, what should we expect for our £130 anyway?!
So yes.. although I know that sh#t happens, and work these days doesn't allow it, I am as moist as the carparks at the prospect of having a crack at this one.
Still smiling.
The availability of hard surfaced car parks at Fairford is virtually zero now that Uncle Spam treats everyone as a potential terrorist.
However, even if there had been sufficient hard surfaced car parks, the aerodrome grass areas would have become swamp-like in a very short time indeed by the little aluminium stepladder folk trudging hither and thither.
And anyone proposing that 'they' should have used PSP (or PAP) in the grass car parks obviously has no idea of the level of metal theft rife in this area.... You would have needed every car park to have been guarded 24/7 to prevent any such theft.
However, even if there had been sufficient hard surfaced car parks, the aerodrome grass areas would have become swamp-like in a very short time indeed by the little aluminium stepladder folk trudging hither and thither.
And anyone proposing that 'they' should have used PSP (or PAP) in the grass car parks obviously has no idea of the level of metal theft rife in this area.... You would have needed every car park to have been guarded 24/7 to prevent any such theft.
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Rafair7643
With the forecast good and a late call, I would like to see the defence against a claim when the weather is;
EGVA 130750Z 09002KT 9999 FEW025 SCT050 15/09 Q1015 BLU NOSIG
EGVA 130800Z 130918 27006KT 9999 FEW030
....and to think other events go ahead and made good publicity about the mud, without having loads of tarmac for punters to walk on once they get in.
As for mud on the road, aren't there any road sweepers down those parts, or perhaps a drive through wheel wash could be set up, like back in the days not too distant past of foot and mouth etc!!
All cancelled because of a muddy car park M'Lawd
One more thing for all those talking about "disgrace" and RIAT F*ck-ups..................count yourselves lucky that RIAT has played the fair card and is willing to refund your money. They do not have to!
This from RIAT "terms and conditions";
"The Organisers reserve the right at any time to cancel or postpone RIAT 2008 or to cancel, postpone or vary any event comprising part of RIAT 2008"
"The Ticket Holder will not be entitled to a refund of any entrance fee paid if for any reason outside the Organisers’ control RIAT 2008 does not take place or is curtailed in any way or postponed or the Ticket Holder is prevented from attending RIAT 2008"
Stew
This from RIAT "terms and conditions";
"The Organisers reserve the right at any time to cancel or postpone RIAT 2008 or to cancel, postpone or vary any event comprising part of RIAT 2008"
"The Ticket Holder will not be entitled to a refund of any entrance fee paid if for any reason outside the Organisers’ control RIAT 2008 does not take place or is curtailed in any way or postponed or the Ticket Holder is prevented from attending RIAT 2008"
Stew
EGVA 130750Z 09002KT 9999 FEW025 SCT050 15/09 Q1015 BLU NOSIG
EGVA 130800Z 130918 27006KT 9999 FEW030
....and to think other events go ahead and made good publicity about the mud, without having loads of tarmac for punters to walk on once they get in.
As for mud on the road, aren't there any road sweepers down those parts, or perhaps a drive through wheel wash could be set up, like back in the days not too distant past of foot and mouth etc!!
All cancelled because of a muddy car park M'Lawd
Last edited by SilsoeSid; 13th Jul 2008 at 11:27. Reason: Removal of 215 that shows the forecasted 8/8 Blue all day. And then put back on because reproduction is for aviation purposes!
Be careful!
Not only does that image has a Crown Copyright, but the Met Office Aviation website states:
The information on the aviation pages is intended for aviation purposes within the UK. These data are not to be used for commercial purposes and are for personal use only, i.e. they should not be passed on to other people or reproduced in any way.
Not only does that image has a Crown Copyright, but the Met Office Aviation website states:
The information on the aviation pages is intended for aviation purposes within the UK. These data are not to be used for commercial purposes and are for personal use only, i.e. they should not be passed on to other people or reproduced in any way.
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Beagle,
Objectively, there's no point in generating hundreds of thousands of pounds for charity if you don't want to spend an extra 30k on security for wriggly tin. Every show has massive sy budgets, it has to be built in, and I am sure it is with RIAT too. If people did have to walk in mud (I am sure it could be mitigated), then so be it - the campers were happy enough and I'm sure the hardcore people who attend a show like this on a daily basis would understand.. 1940/Glastonbury anyone?
Trying to be positive, it could simply be that Fairford is not suitable?
Objectively, there's no point in generating hundreds of thousands of pounds for charity if you don't want to spend an extra 30k on security for wriggly tin. Every show has massive sy budgets, it has to be built in, and I am sure it is with RIAT too. If people did have to walk in mud (I am sure it could be mitigated), then so be it - the campers were happy enough and I'm sure the hardcore people who attend a show like this on a daily basis would understand.. 1940/Glastonbury anyone?
Trying to be positive, it could simply be that Fairford is not suitable?
And there was me thinking that a huge chunk of the proceeds of RIAT were reserved for the 'chosen few' of the RAF Benevolent Fund to swan about Fairford in big, air-conditioned cars ...................
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This thread further emphasises the utter ignorance many people have of the issues that support flying away from the cockpit. It isn't a 'muddy car park' or 'put some PSP down'. You are just displaying attitude that comes from you thinking the Exercises always started at D+21 when the aircraft landed - ie when you pitched up. Get over yourselves.
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Be careful!
Not only does that image has a Crown Copyright, but the Met Office Aviation website states:
The information on the aviation pages is intended for aviation purposes within the UK. These data are not to be used for commercial purposes and are for personal use only, i.e. they should not be passed on to other people or reproduced in any way.
Not only does that image has a Crown Copyright, but the Met Office Aviation website states:
The information on the aviation pages is intended for aviation purposes within the UK. These data are not to be used for commercial purposes and are for personal use only, i.e. they should not be passed on to other people or reproduced in any way.
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One more thing for all those talking about "disgrace" and RIAT F*ck-ups..................count yourselves lucky that RIAT has played the fair card and is willing to refund your money. They do not have to!
This from RIAT "terms and conditions";
"The Organisers reserve the right at any time to cancel or postpone RIAT 2008 or to cancel, postpone or vary any event comprising part of RIAT 2008"
"The Ticket Holder will not be entitled to a refund of any entrance fee paid if for any reason outside the Organisers’ control RIAT 2008 does not take place or is curtailed in any way or postponed or the Ticket Holder is prevented from attending RIAT 2008"
Stew
This from RIAT "terms and conditions";
"The Organisers reserve the right at any time to cancel or postpone RIAT 2008 or to cancel, postpone or vary any event comprising part of RIAT 2008"
"The Ticket Holder will not be entitled to a refund of any entrance fee paid if for any reason outside the Organisers’ control RIAT 2008 does not take place or is curtailed in any way or postponed or the Ticket Holder is prevented from attending RIAT 2008"
Stew
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Peter,
Instead of protecting these stout hearted chaps who give up so much of their free time doing this show, your shots would only infuriate me more. Why on earth were things allowed to get like that?
To Gainesy.. 'Its only an airshow' fine. Yes it is only an airshow, and as I said, I put it into context earlier and its not the B all and end all. But I assume you're not speaking for the 170,000 who paid for tickets or who travelled hundreds of miles or from overseas to get there? I'll assume too, that you're not one of the hundreds of traders who rely on the event to generate the lion's share of annual revenue? Whilst I'm on the subject, I'll also assume that you're not in business and subject to the commercial grind of having to provide ever better levels of service to the punter in order to keep their business, year in and year out? Tell me - did you ever work for BL in the 1970s, responsible for washer motors in Morris Marinas? It sounds as if you have the right approach.
Out of sad curiosity, I looked at the books. The whole shooting match generates £7 million a year and made a post tax profit that was up by 50% or so year on year, AND after donating 320k to the RAF CT. The important thing that you have forgotten Gainsey, when you say 'its just an airshow' is that its much more than that. There will be a significant impact on the work that they are tasked with doing. Forget my £x hundred - I won't even be bothering with getting a refund, instead - think about thise who will be relying on grants that now won't be forthcoming, and all for the sake of a decent wet weather plan? Again, why wasn't Kemble used as hard standing car parking? For instance. It would be easy to have that padded into things.. Action of fields being unsuitable: Contact Kemble, use hard standing there and arrange for buses to provide fleeting transportation. I remmeber in the 1970's, the Motor Show at the NEC used the as yet uncompleted M42 because its car parking was knackered. There's always a Plan B.
I am not interested in having a go at the organisers - my interest and bemusement is professional. This might be as much as anything, a case of missmanaging expectation and the circumstances might have been beyond their control, and how that was communicated. No, not God providing the rain, but slipping into a habit of 'If it ain't broken, don't fix it' and using the 'same old same old' fields which have surfaces which can no longer absorb the intensity of attention, whether it be through farming or lack of drainage or simply someone looking at the checklist and thinking 'Righto - car parking, same as last year - yyyup, skies clear, field still there - tick'. But the pathology of examining 'why' and doing something that they have never had to do before will improve things for them. The business of changing Saturday to ticket only at short notice will only compound their malaise.
I genuinely, find this failure interesting from an organisational and opetrational view and even though I lost out, I'm not that annoyed to be perfectly honest - my heart goes out to the team who will be feeling absolutely gutted. I hope they realise that they were blindsided, but now what are they going to do, to prevent this happening again? It will be interesting to see what they come up with, and why it wasn't done this year. But I think too, that unless the constructive incentive from the public is there to address why this happened, its going to occur again. And I hope that I do not come across as baying for blood. Because I know that the event is top notch - RIAT has taken a bloody nose and one of those every once in a while isn't a bad thing.
http://www.airtattoo.com/Assets/File...&As%202007.pdf
Instead of protecting these stout hearted chaps who give up so much of their free time doing this show, your shots would only infuriate me more. Why on earth were things allowed to get like that?
To Gainesy.. 'Its only an airshow' fine. Yes it is only an airshow, and as I said, I put it into context earlier and its not the B all and end all. But I assume you're not speaking for the 170,000 who paid for tickets or who travelled hundreds of miles or from overseas to get there? I'll assume too, that you're not one of the hundreds of traders who rely on the event to generate the lion's share of annual revenue? Whilst I'm on the subject, I'll also assume that you're not in business and subject to the commercial grind of having to provide ever better levels of service to the punter in order to keep their business, year in and year out? Tell me - did you ever work for BL in the 1970s, responsible for washer motors in Morris Marinas? It sounds as if you have the right approach.
Out of sad curiosity, I looked at the books. The whole shooting match generates £7 million a year and made a post tax profit that was up by 50% or so year on year, AND after donating 320k to the RAF CT. The important thing that you have forgotten Gainsey, when you say 'its just an airshow' is that its much more than that. There will be a significant impact on the work that they are tasked with doing. Forget my £x hundred - I won't even be bothering with getting a refund, instead - think about thise who will be relying on grants that now won't be forthcoming, and all for the sake of a decent wet weather plan? Again, why wasn't Kemble used as hard standing car parking? For instance. It would be easy to have that padded into things.. Action of fields being unsuitable: Contact Kemble, use hard standing there and arrange for buses to provide fleeting transportation. I remmeber in the 1970's, the Motor Show at the NEC used the as yet uncompleted M42 because its car parking was knackered. There's always a Plan B.
I am not interested in having a go at the organisers - my interest and bemusement is professional. This might be as much as anything, a case of missmanaging expectation and the circumstances might have been beyond their control, and how that was communicated. No, not God providing the rain, but slipping into a habit of 'If it ain't broken, don't fix it' and using the 'same old same old' fields which have surfaces which can no longer absorb the intensity of attention, whether it be through farming or lack of drainage or simply someone looking at the checklist and thinking 'Righto - car parking, same as last year - yyyup, skies clear, field still there - tick'. But the pathology of examining 'why' and doing something that they have never had to do before will improve things for them. The business of changing Saturday to ticket only at short notice will only compound their malaise.
I genuinely, find this failure interesting from an organisational and opetrational view and even though I lost out, I'm not that annoyed to be perfectly honest - my heart goes out to the team who will be feeling absolutely gutted. I hope they realise that they were blindsided, but now what are they going to do, to prevent this happening again? It will be interesting to see what they come up with, and why it wasn't done this year. But I think too, that unless the constructive incentive from the public is there to address why this happened, its going to occur again. And I hope that I do not come across as baying for blood. Because I know that the event is top notch - RIAT has taken a bloody nose and one of those every once in a while isn't a bad thing.
http://www.airtattoo.com/Assets/File...&As%202007.pdf
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
These photographs that show the muddy car park and flooded areas. All well and good but there are people there. 
Why wasn't that day called off, especially when it was forecast to be exceedingly bad weather?...Unlike today. H & S ...yea right! 
As for the Met Office copyright for the 215, that will mess up a few briefs in the mornings then!! Anyone been prosecuted yet?
All round the world, Met Men, Duty Crews, Flying Schools etc pass on the information from the Met Office Website. Walk into any club/flying set up and there it all is pinned up on the wall, or displayed on a computer monitor.
Why wasn't that day called off, especially when it was forecast to be exceedingly bad weather?...Unlike today. H & S ...yea right! As for the Met Office copyright for the 215, that will mess up a few briefs in the mornings then!! Anyone been prosecuted yet?
The information on the aviation pages is intended for aviation purposes within the UK. These data are not to be used for commercial purposes and are for personal use only, i.e. they should not be passed on to other people or reproduced in any way.