Afghan airbridge trial
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Gnd,
I am glad that we managed to reach something of a peaceful conclusion. May your future journeys to and from theatre, by whatever route, be as painless as possible.
More importantly, I fervently hope that all of you engaged in the operational theatres stay safe whilst continuing to do the outstanding job that we all know you are doing.
Regards
BP
I am glad that we managed to reach something of a peaceful conclusion. May your future journeys to and from theatre, by whatever route, be as painless as possible.
More importantly, I fervently hope that all of you engaged in the operational theatres stay safe whilst continuing to do the outstanding job that we all know you are doing.
Regards
BP
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If memory serves me right C-17's have always stopped on the way in and out of theater, and that was waaaaay before tristars even knew where afganistan was!!! Give me C-17s anyday my last trip got us home in 11.20hrs! was most impressed.
Which is about the same time as a Tri* takes on its current routing (give or take a bit for head/tail wind). I know this because I've deadheaded back countless times and believe me it seems much longer when you've been on the aircraft for 24 hours!
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Why not feed the troops prior to take off at BN.Land in Cyprus take troops off into lounge and feed them.Take off then land in Afgan.Return trip fed before departure.Land at Cyprus troops fed and take on board beer for the troops.Land at BN and wait 4 to 5 hours for MT to turn up because they are useless.No requirement for on flight food at all.Anyhow one of the reasons for landing in Cyprus is to allow the troops posted there and then detached to Afgan to get off at Cyprus.So what will happen about the stop off in Germany (Hannover). Or is this really going to be:BNHannoverCyprusAfgan.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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It's a shame so many people are against what we on 216 Sqn are trying to achieve. It's only going to last till mid Aug. and then we revert back to the usual routing. I'll be honest we do struggle with aircraft and manning to try and do everything that is asked of us, but remember we are flying 25-30 year old aircraft, and i don't often see Tri*'s being operated by anybody else.
It this new routing does not work then people on higher pay scales than me will not go for it.
Also, some of us on the fleet have done other types before coming onto the Trimotor. I have very fond memories of sleeping on sofas etc at Y453 in my youth.
Oh, and listen to what 14 greens says, I know i do.
Fly safe to all those out in the big bad world.
It this new routing does not work then people on higher pay scales than me will not go for it.
Also, some of us on the fleet have done other types before coming onto the Trimotor. I have very fond memories of sleeping on sofas etc at Y453 in my youth.
Oh, and listen to what 14 greens says, I know i do.
Fly safe to all those out in the big bad world.
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Think about it chaps - it's not just 216 that have driven this. It's been modelled (ad infinitum). All stakeholders have been involved, and I mean all. CJO has given his support, as has CFA (Graeme Lamb, and if you want to argue with him, be my guest). They've both been personally briefed by ACDS (Log Ops) and PJHQ.
If it works - great!
If it doesn't - try again.
If it works - great!
If it doesn't - try again.
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As one of the people involved in this, I thought I'd let you know why we are having to go down this route. We were told to plan to carry an extra 125 people per week. To achieve this we can no longer augment the crews (as discussed earlier in this thread), as there is now no seats available for crew rest. Any delay of more than 3 hours on the old route puts the crew out of crew duty (no more augmented 24 hr crew duty days). To use a more direct route would involve a slip in Eastern Europe, don't think that will ever happen. So to make sure the that the task can be carried out without augmenting, crews will be positioned around a route, using Seeb and Akrotiri (can't lift enough fuel out of Akrotiri and Kandahar to make it back to Akrotiri). Most crews will spend about two weeks at a time going around the route before getting back to the UK, mainly on camp at Akrotiri. Hope this answers a few questions.
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Just to clear up what side show bob mentioned!
On order to Augment and increase to 24 hrs "fat Boy" seats were fitted in the jet to allow the augmentees to rest when not operating, the seats are as everybody is aware in the main cabin and not seperated in any way or even curtained off, the civvies when operating this way have crew beds in a separate part of the cabin (in the aft area of the cabin in the base of the tail plane for example) In the civvie world this is legislated!
Crews on 216 have been augmenting for a fair while now in order to achieve the task (not complaining) and not suggesting that we should have beds fitted (the C17 does have a bunk by the way) there could be better ways to seat augmented crews to allow better rest but thats not the issue!
This trial is not about crew rest or reducing the need for augmented crews it is purely about trying to increase the available payload in and out of theatre!
As for crews down route, 216 sqn will do what is required, being on base in Akt is no pain when compaired to where they could be and everybody knows that Block 101 is a palace when it could be a tent!
Lets hope the trial achieves its aim in getting more people home when they need to be
On order to Augment and increase to 24 hrs "fat Boy" seats were fitted in the jet to allow the augmentees to rest when not operating, the seats are as everybody is aware in the main cabin and not seperated in any way or even curtained off, the civvies when operating this way have crew beds in a separate part of the cabin (in the aft area of the cabin in the base of the tail plane for example) In the civvie world this is legislated!
Crews on 216 have been augmenting for a fair while now in order to achieve the task (not complaining) and not suggesting that we should have beds fitted (the C17 does have a bunk by the way) there could be better ways to seat augmented crews to allow better rest but thats not the issue!
This trial is not about crew rest or reducing the need for augmented crews it is purely about trying to increase the available payload in and out of theatre!
As for crews down route, 216 sqn will do what is required, being on base in Akt is no pain when compaired to where they could be and everybody knows that Block 101 is a palace when it could be a tent!
Lets hope the trial achieves its aim in getting more people home when they need to be
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Akrotiri Inflt
Flapjackmuncher
Akrotiri inflt is still alive and well - but it has been civilianized! If the guys and girls in Akrotiri read this - Thanks very much for looking after us
(Albert) and the troops a couple of weeks ago (sorry about the 3 am starts).
M2MOB
To those in the sand pits - stay safe.
216 hope the trial goes well - see you in a few weeks.............again
Akrotiri inflt is still alive and well - but it has been civilianized! If the guys and girls in Akrotiri read this - Thanks very much for looking after us
(Albert) and the troops a couple of weeks ago (sorry about the 3 am starts).M2MOB
To those in the sand pits - stay safe.
216 hope the trial goes well - see you in a few weeks.............again
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Beags
Slip patterns, as you know, are very labour intensive (our Kabul Slip took 3-4 crews per ac) but the pattern gets ac and their load to the destination (and back) in an more efficient manner than 1 crew per ac 'down route'.
Back in 2002/3/4, we only acheived the Kabul Slip because we had no ac with which to do anything else, certainly very little meaningful training!
Despite this, HQ 2 Gp and PMA came up with a reduced crew-to-ac manning ratio (definitely for Hercs and, also I think, for other AT ac as well but can't be sure about Tri*) that meant slip patterns would almost definitely become a thing of the past, unless 'in extremis'.
Everyone could see this and even Harry Staish agreed by writing to 'Grope' about the folly of their ways - Harry even 'purloined' my original letter to my boss, who had already changed the signature block once!
Slip patterns, as you know, are very labour intensive (our Kabul Slip took 3-4 crews per ac) but the pattern gets ac and their load to the destination (and back) in an more efficient manner than 1 crew per ac 'down route'.
Back in 2002/3/4, we only acheived the Kabul Slip because we had no ac with which to do anything else, certainly very little meaningful training!
Despite this, HQ 2 Gp and PMA came up with a reduced crew-to-ac manning ratio (definitely for Hercs and, also I think, for other AT ac as well but can't be sure about Tri*) that meant slip patterns would almost definitely become a thing of the past, unless 'in extremis'.
Everyone could see this and even Harry Staish agreed by writing to 'Grope' about the folly of their ways - Harry even 'purloined' my original letter to my boss, who had already changed the signature block once!
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I think the short answer to Beags question is the one that is causing this problem, Money and the lack of it! With more movers/engineers/crews, and modern Aircraft the problem would not be there. To hotac 200+ passengers in an eastern european country, when the a/c suffers a defect is an expensive buissness, far easier in tents etc in Akt and Seeb. And break down they do, (as i believe the latest has). So in conclusion, give us more money and the problem will go away.
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There's also the small matter of the last time a Tristar diverted into one of these countries, the Captain was marched away (some small problem with 200+ soldiers arriving unannounced) and the locals insisted on payment in cash, preferably Euros.
Rebel PPRuNer
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I can understand that pre $100+/bbl oil the boom in the aviation sector meant civair mightn't exactly have been champing at the bit to offer capability to the mil sector but now that aircraft are being grounded maybe the cost/benefit to a civilian UK-Cyprus leg might have shifted, even when accounting for the extra personnel required to crossdeck from the civ to the mil aircraft and optimising the best use of differently sized aircraft.
After all, aren't military contracts about the only way you can justify subsidising the continued existence of G-reg airlines these days? They'd only be getting back what Gorn Broon is taking from their civilian customers...
After all, aren't military contracts about the only way you can justify subsidising the continued existence of G-reg airlines these days? They'd only be getting back what Gorn Broon is taking from their civilian customers...
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Land at Cyprus troops fed and take on board beer for the troops
There's also the small matter of the last time a Tristar diverted into one of these countries, the Captain was marched away (some small problem with 200+ soldiers arriving unannounced) and the locals insisted on payment in cash, preferably Euros.
One co-pilot even received a somewhat threatening letter from American Express after the bean counters hadn't paid his corporate bill within the specified period. At my suggestion he then wrote to Amex to point out that this was a corporate card and to ask them to confirm that his personal credit rating wouldn't be affected in any way....
Last edited by BEagle; 16th Jul 2008 at 08:17. Reason: Spooling miskates!
