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Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

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Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

Old 15th Feb 2020, 16:20
  #12741 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 76
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Nice find, pzu.

A reminder of that VERY long nose, for a start. And photo 10 begs for an Ikea instruction leaflet and an Allen Key ... “Attach Part 47 to Part 2”.

Cheers, Danny ... gone but not forgotten!
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Old 17th Feb 2020, 17:03
  #12742 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
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Aeroplane magazine March 2020

I just bought the magazine and there’s a 13 page section on the Vultee Vengence. Dive in chaps!
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Old 28th Feb 2020, 05:18
  #12743 (permalink)  
 
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Dive bombing and our friend Danny

With reference to above re. the Vultee Vengence

The paragraph below is taken from an article I read about the "Oslo report", a piece of intelligence covering many important military technical and scientific advances which were in train in Germany, It was dropped off at the British embassy in Norway in 1939.



" What would the information on the Ju-88’s dive-bombing capability have meant to a British analyst in 1939? If such an aircraft was to operate as a dive-bomber, the Germans were apparently able to build strong aircraft—but given the reputation of German engineering that could hardly have been in doubt anyway. But the mere mention of “dive-bombing” would have tended to douse the interest of a British analyst nurtured in the catechism of the RAF, for the concept of dive-bombing went against the RAF’s very psychological grain. Pin-point accuracy bombing reeked of a subordinate role of aviation in direct support of the army, and the raison d’être of the RAF was as an independent force on an equal hierarchical footing with the Royal Navy and the British Army. Hence, dive bombing was regarded as anathema in the RAF, so much so that the use of the word itself had been forbidden. Since 1938, it had been decreed (ref. 7) that the only acceptable expression was “losing height bombing”! The psychological make-up (and concern about their career prospects!) of RAF analysts would thus tend to make them regard any reference to this “confounded losing height bombing” as irrelevant.
When I read this piece I immediately thought of our friend Danny. He couldn't understand why the RAF never used dive bombing tactics elsewhere, The answer may lie above.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 07:37
  #12744 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
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Morning all,

hope everyone is ok during this latest oddness.

I realise I have never procured a copy of either of Danny42C’s books and this is something I really must do.

Does anyone know how I can go about it?
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 13:27
  #12745 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
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Yes, you are welcome to either or both books if you send me your email address via PM. This is because Prune's system cannot provide attachments. In return we ask for a donation (say £10) to the RAF Benevolent Fund, Danny's favourite charity. Incidentally the RAF BF has received almost £1000 from his generous readers.
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Old 12th Apr 2020, 15:26
  #12746 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: moraira,spain-Norfolk, UK
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MPN11 - photo 10.
My late father helped assemble those at Drigh road.
According to him the had no manuals (Ikea or other)
and had to work out wow to do it. Also no "airflow bench"
for engine setup, he had just done the course, I believe at Pratt
& Whitney, yes I know it was a Wright engine.
Late response as I have been 70 days at sea, virus dodging,
or at least the Captain was.
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Old 13th Apr 2020, 09:12
  #12747 (permalink)  
 
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Danny had mentioned the 'No Manuals' scenario. But, hey, there was a War going on and everyone did the best they could with what they had. And in this case, it seemed to work!

Meanwhile ... 70 days?! I hope the virus-dodging is over, and you're safely isolated at home.
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Old 22nd Apr 2020, 15:54
  #12748 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
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I'd like to add a correction to your entry about Ralph Hollis. In 1977 I was appointed as General Manager of Royal Brunei Airlines. My first job was to select a new Flight Operations Manager and I went to Britannia Airways where I selected Ralph. He did a wonderful job and became a close friend. We were devastated when he had the heart attack on the golf course.
As you were on the Berlin Air Lift you will be interested in my website eyewitnessarchives.co.uk where there film of the Air Lift taken by Reggie Langtry.

Regards Alan Douglas
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Old 8th May 2020, 22:13
  #12749 (permalink)  
 
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Having watched the BBC TV programme broadcast from outside Buckingham Palace this evening I am conscious that without the likes of thousnads of Danny's and all our folk, we wouldn't be able to enjoy our todays.

The Queen said her piece nicely, and being born in 1926, she has adult memories of how things were.

I was taken at 6 1/2 to live in Wales to stay with a kindly little family in 1944 after my mother was put in touch with them as by then she felt with the Buzz Bombs too, it was more than enough risk. Anyway our own Infants school and others around here were closing so we kids had to go somewhere. Mother at that time worked in Walkers jewellers factory in Streatham, S. London, inspecting parts - for gunsights I believe.

Around post VJ Day I was brought back home and found that our road had great burnt patches at intervals along it from the VE Day party bonfires, but of course I missed out on that !

So in grateful memory I raise a glass to our forefathers, some of whom still are on this Earth - and I hope one or two still scan this forum.

TTFN, mike.

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Old 9th May 2020, 09:43
  #12750 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
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DG :-
Dive bombing and our friend DannyWith reference to above re. the Vultee Vengence The paragraph below is taken from an article I read about the "Oslo report", a piece of intelligence covering many important military technical and scientific advances which were in train in Germany, It was dropped off at the British embassy in Norway in 1939.
Quote:
" What would the information on the Ju-88’s dive-bombing capability have meant to a British analyst in 1939? If such an aircraft was to operate as a dive-bomber, the Germans were apparently able to build strong aircraft—but given the reputation of German engineering that could hardly have been in doubt anyway. But the mere mention of “dive-bombing” would have tended to douse the interest of a British analyst nurtured in the catechism of the RAF, for the concept of dive-bombing went against the RAF’s very psychological grain. Pin-point accuracy bombing reeked of a subordinate role of aviation in direct support of the army, and the raison d’être of the RAF was as an independent force on an equal hierarchical footing with the Royal Navy and the British Army. Hence, dive bombing was regarded as anathema in the RAF, so much so that the use of the word itself had been forbidden. Since 1938, it had been decreed (ref. 7) that the only acceptable expression was “losing height bombing”! The psychological make-up (and concern about their career prospects!) of RAF analysts would thus tend to make them regard any reference to this “confounded losing height bombing” as irrelevant."

When I read this piece I immediately thought of our friend Danny. He couldn't understand why the RAF never used dive bombing tactics elsewhere, The answer may lie above.
I suspect this quote was from someone who felt that a separate (or Independent) Air Force was unnecessary and a misuse of resources. Danny himself contended that Dive Bombing, though highly effective, could only succeed under a state of Air Superiority in general or local tactical advantage at the very least (witness Midway, his default example of its tactical success having a strategic effect). He credited his own survival to the total disinterest of the Imperial Army's Air Arm in opposing the Vengeance forays (an Air Arm supposedly established for direct Army support!). As to the "Independent" RAF it was nonetheless used to great effect in tactical support of the Army in the Western Desert campaign and in the Invasion of Western Europe and the subsequent land campaigns, as well as in Burma, and in addition to its Maritime Operations in the Battle of the Atlantic, and of course the Strategic Bombing Campaign itself.

As to "Losing Height Bombing" I've never heard of it before though that doesn't necessarily discredit it. I believe though that the word Stuka is an abbreviation for the German words of a "Falling Fighting Aeroplane". Hardly trips off the tongue does it?

Our detractors continue though unabated, witness the unrelenting output of Mr Max Hastings!
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Old 10th May 2020, 19:19
  #12751 (permalink)  
 
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A Great Uncle remembered

A former work colleauge posted on her Facebook page some details of her Great Uncle Flying Officer O G Horrigan who was killed during the war when his Whitley aircraft was shot down over Denmark, her story and that of her Great Uncle and his fellow aircrew and their continued rememberence should be shared with the followers of this remarkable thread.



FO O G Horrigan

War Graves Crew of Whitley N1383

Rememberence Stone Whitley N1383
5th May was the 75th anniversary of Danish Liberation. This year would have been my third visit to Denmark for the annual ceremony in a little village called Vadum where my Dad's uncle Owen Horrigan is buried, along with the other crew members from the Whitley MkV N1383, which was shot down by flak near Aalborg on 26th April 1940. On 5th May wreaths are laid and the last post is played at a graveside ceremony, and a remembrance service takes place in the beautiful village church opposite. This has taken place every year on Danish Liberation Day since the war ended, although we only found out in the last ten years or so that this happened at all. On our last visit (5 years ago on the 70th anniversary of liberation) we visited the crash site in a nearby farmer's field, for the unveiling of a memorial stone to the crew, along with a number of placards telling the stories of the airmen, and of the one surviving member of the crew, navigator Vincent Herbert Barr, who managed to parachute out and sought refuge in a nearby farmhouse, before becoming a prisoner of war. A local farming museum houses one of the Rolls-Royce Merlin Mk10 engines from my great uncle's plane, alongside an exhibition dedicated to the flight, the crewmen and the excavation of the plane. The other engine is exhibited in the Bangsbo museum in Frederikshavn.

This is a post of humble gratitude, to all the citizens of Vadum, Aalborg and beyond who continue to show such reverence and respect to all those who lost their lives over Danish soil and sea. We recognise how very fortunate we are to know where our loved ones are buried, and that their graves are so lovingly tended. We are grateful also to have so much knowledge about what happened, and see how their stories are kept alive by such compassionate and dedicated folk. We are also very grateful to be able to call many of these people our friends.

A nod of respect too to my Dad, who spent much of the first years of his retirement trying to find and make contact with the families of the other crew members, to let them know what happens in Vadum each year, and to ensure the photographs of all the crew were included in the exhibition and on the information placards at the crash site. During this process he found out that Vincent Barr was still alive, and met with him and his daughters to hear his story. Vincent then met my Grandma for the first time in 2012 at the unveiling of the Bomber Command memorial in Green Park, shortly before he passed away. 5 years ago we met with family members from all the crew, including Vincent's two daughters, for the memorial and celebrations in Vadum and Aalborg.

The graveside ceremony took place this year, along with 5 consecutive church services, with 10 people attending each service. The story of the crash and Vincent Barr's survival was broadcast on Danish television ten days ago, on the 80th anniversary of the crash: c. 10m30s into this link... https://www.tv2nord.dk/arkiv/2020-04-26

There is also a 20 page chapter dedicated to Owen Horrigan and the crew of N1383 in John Hewitt's book 'Ireland's Aviator Heroes of World War II', which includes extracts of letters and flying records providing a real glimpse into life in the RAF, as well as accounts of the events surrounding the crash.
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Old 10th May 2020, 20:10
  #12752 (permalink)  
 
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You can't beat that: As a fairly cynical bastard about remembering isolated events during any war this one softened me somewhat.
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Old 10th May 2020, 21:02
  #12753 (permalink)  
 
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Remarkable people the Danes, they managed to get nearly all their Jewish population safely to Sweden while under German occupation :-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_the_Danish_Jews

The Graves do not appear to be marked by CWGC plaques, they did use bronze ones but in a different form (my own Dad's grave is so marked), so would appear to be local. There are more such plaques than for this crew alone, are they all for Allied Airmen I wonder? The care and reverence bestowed on them is palpable and the annual commemoration must be a very moving occasion. Such plots can be found in so many of the occupied nations of Western Europe and the pride and gratitude of those who tend them span the generations. In remembering our fallen they remember their own suffering in those bleak years of occupation and the joy of their liberation. Their example humbles us and reminds us that governments may come and go but true friendship comes from individuals, no matter their nationality.
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Old 10th May 2020, 21:15
  #12754 (permalink)  
 
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John Hemingway, 100, last surviving Battle of Britain pilot;
https://www.irishpost.com/news/irish...britain-184916
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Old 3rd Jun 2020, 23:31
  #12755 (permalink)  
pzu
 
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Thumbs up An ‘almost/near’ contemporary of Danny

Just found this piece through FB

https://www.canadahelps.org/en/chari...kLNdC7VQiUcnXA

PZU - Out of Africa (Retired)
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Old 19th Jun 2020, 15:14
  #12756 (permalink)  
 
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RAF Flying Training Manual 1940 - insert

Found this in Dad's archive. Dad was RegLe contemporary, having trained with him under the Arnold Scheme in Class 42A. Tucked inside the manual is War Dept Circular Letter No. 36-10 dated 25 June 1936 on the subject of aircraft spins. Thought it may be interesting to those on this thread.






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Old 20th Jun 2020, 17:12
  #12757 (permalink)  
 
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Great to hear from you again! A reminder of years gone by when this old thread fairly hummed. This spinning article is fascinating so I am going to post a link in the Private Flying forum. My ex-WW2 instructor made me spin from every possible situation and thereby saved my neck on one occasion involving engine failure. I understand spinning is no longer taught on the PPL syllabus, which may be why I have seen distressing reports of witnesses saying that they saw the aircraft turn steeply, then dive into the ground. Best wishes!
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Old 20th Jun 2020, 18:09
  #12758 (permalink)  
 
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I remember my PPL ... on Piper Colt, which effectively did not spin. We had to do a 30 min trip in a Chipmunk (G-AOFF) to show what a spin really is.
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Old 21st Jun 2020, 11:11
  #12759 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you for posting the Pre-War Spinning Instructions.
So much to recall from my early days and to be happy to know that their technique was what we too were instructed to use.

Spinning was still on the syllabus & taught at Shoreham in 1970 on the Cessna 150, though some folk said most of the time it was really a spiral dive & not the real thing !
I bravely did one solo before the GFT, but that was it !
Now nearing 83 & still flying my Rans from a field in SE UK, I'm grateful for having had that slightly stricter Classic PPL training.

Nowadays, the LAA light 'plane "Annual" schedule and inspection sign off requires a "Test Flight" at near AUMW. This is simply 1000 ft climb rate, a bit of handling, VNE and stalls.
I have to say a surprising number of pilots (?) quail at even doing either Stalls or VNE; seemingly frightened that their skills aren't up to it, or that a 50 year old plane might shed its wings. Even the MAUW requirement is cavilled at.
I hesitate to think, after a cheated or unfulfilled Test Flight has been signed off by the owner & they obtain a new Permit to Fly, that they then happily proceed to fly fully loaded with the wife of girl friend on board. It makes a nonsense of the whole thing - luckily the original a/c design and manufacture margins usually provide these budding Darwin Candidates some protection.

I think by contrast military training and its regime always was a thorough & essentially fulfilling course, conveying skills I envy.

The pages of this forum continue to be a tribute to the generation before me who were embroiled in WW II by relating their experiences.

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Old 23rd Jun 2020, 10:38
  #12760 (permalink)  
 
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Really interesting thread here on the Private Flying forum arising from Sandisondaughter's spinning notes.
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