Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

Old 10th Oct 2018, 15:02
  #12401 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: AndyCappLand
Age: 97
Posts: 7,642
(1) Danny42C is back on line.

(2) FED (#12401),

Far too curt ! - (usually) the wording was: "Gentlemen, today is the 10th"
Danny42C is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2018, 18:31
  #12402 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: France
Age: 75
Posts: 6,315
When I was OC Accts at a Lincs fighter station in the early 80s, I had a deal with the squadron commanders: cop on 10th I told them who of their pilots had not paid their mess bill, those on the list did not appear on the flying programme on 11th!
Wander00 is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2018, 08:09
  #12403 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: East Anglia
Posts: 681
Welcome back Danny, I trust that Mr Babbage's engine is now up to snuff
FantomZorbin is online now  
Old 11th Oct 2018, 10:01
  #12404 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: France
Age: 75
Posts: 6,315
Great you are back, Danny, waiting eagerly for next pearl of wisdom
Wander00 is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2018, 10:07
  #12405 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 74
Posts: 5,210
<not a caption> "MPN11 quickly washes up Danny's mug."
MPN11 is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2018, 12:21
  #12406 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: AndyCappLand
Age: 97
Posts: 7,642
Fantom Zorbin et al,

Thank you all ! - glad to be back (WD40s the stuff for Babbage Mk.I s). "Pearls" - a rather unfortunate analogy, perhaps ...... ?

Mug ? - one of Laura Ashley's finest (nothing but the best for me !) But thank-ee all the same, MPN11 ! - a kind deed for a Senior Citizen.

Danny.
Danny42C is offline  
Old 11th Oct 2018, 13:31
  #12407 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 74
Posts: 5,210
Originally Posted by Danny42C View Post
....
Mug ? - one of Laura Ashley's finest (nothing but the best for me !) But thank-ee all the same, MPN11 ! - a kind deed for a Senior Citizen..
From a Junior Senior to a Senior Senior, “You’re welcome.”

PS: I always thought that mug was a bit pretentious for a cyber-Nissen hut.


Last edited by MPN11; 11th Oct 2018 at 13:41.
MPN11 is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2018, 13:11
  #12408 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 429
The tumbleweed is piling up against the crew room door and a few panes have cracked no one home, has the base been sold off by the MoD?
Hopefully it means that Danny is being cosseted at home by the log fire whilst his uniform is being pressed.

To return to a pet issue of mine, after a fairly contentious exchange I have now located the crash site of the Tempest V JN759 flown by Flt Sgt Donald John Mackerras RAAF of 3 Squadron near my village on Sunday afternoon 6th August 1944 on an anti Diver patrol with S/Ldr R Dryland. Seems a proximity fused AA shell damaged his aircraft and caused a fatal crash landing.
Mackerras may be related to the other notable Australians of that name.
I'm hopeful that a commemoration service can be arranged for the 75th anniversary next year, which needs liaising with RAF and RAAF representatives, and potentially his relatives.
The Australian War Memorial hosted a Last Post ceremony for him in 2016 and will be projecting his name on the facade of the Memorial in mid December.

That should bring this thread back onto Page 1!
Icare9 is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2018, 15:04
  #12409 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: AndyCappLand
Age: 97
Posts: 7,642
Icare9 (#12410),
Hopefully it means that Danny is being cosseted at home by the log fire whilst his uniform is being pressed.
No, he is flat on his back, hors de combat, getting TLC from his devoted daughter (from whose laptop this is coming),

Meanwhile his own laptop is "under the knife" at local friendly IT repair shop.

When (if) both servicable again, Normal Service will be resumed.

Danny.
Danny42C is offline  
Old 22nd Oct 2018, 18:03
  #12410 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 74
Posts: 5,210
Greetings Danny42C and wonderful devoted daughter. Good to hear from you again ... BTW, you’re on SDO on Thursday, and I believe it’s your turn to sweep the cyber-Crewroom this week.

All the best for a swift recovery for you ,.. and that bloody laptop! And hugs to Devoted Daughter, aka DD
MPN11 is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2018, 17:04
  #12411 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Sussex
Age: 77
Posts: 4,097
Danny, I second Icare's and MPN's wishes for your speedy recovery. All here is despond and neglect, as Icare says. So hurry back, and give that laptop of yours a jolly good talking to so that you can join the fray again when all is Ops Normal.

Icare9, well done on your diligent research in locating Tempest JN759. Operation Diver was beset by many perils, given that the target itself packed up to 1000Kg of Amatol or Trialen. Hence the preference for tipping them rather than shooting them down air to air. To fall casualty to our own AA, when they were supposed to occupy a different sector to the fighters is surprising, but perhaps this was before the deployment of the AA to the coast? Was the "contentious exchange" with the MOD?
Chugalug2 is offline  
Old 23rd Oct 2018, 19:36
  #12412 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 429
As it's close to 75 years since D Day and 1 week after the first V1's started to arrive, some newcomers might need a bit of a refresher.
In early 1944, Bomber Command had diverted from attacking Germany targets to switch to paralysing the French transport network in preparation for D Day.
Resources had to be diverted once the purpose of "ski jump" launch ramps for the V1 were discovered being built in hundreds of locations, all aligned towards London. Many crews fell victim during daylight raids, but perhaps their biggest unsung triumph was the devastating raid on Peenemunde which set back the V1 and V2 programmes.
Had that not been interrupted, V1's would have been trundling over much sooner, perhaps before December 1943 and possibly had a tremendous effect not only on morale, but on the massing of troops and equipment building up for D Day.
As it was, the impact (perhaps not the best word) of the V1 assault was overshadowed by the relief that the D Day landings had been successful, and thus did less damage to morale.
Add the V2 into the mix in early 1944 and London would have had a pulverising series of blows that it may have had to be abandoned.

Whilst the Spit Mk XIV, Mustang, Mosquito and the American P61 Black Widow and several others helped in shooting down many, of the nearly 10,000 V1's launched, almost 40% were stopped one way or another. The Tempest Mk V was about the only aircraft capable of catching the V1's in level flight, the others all needed to sweep down in a dive to get close. 0.303 ammo tended to bounce off the casing, so 20mm cannon was really the only effective ammunition, but needed to get to 200 yards, and that distance can be covered in a blink of an eye at 400 mph! That resulted in the attacker flying through the debris cloud of burning fuel and lumps of metal.

Once the London defenders had got over their joy at downing seemingly every enemy attacking "bomber" in flames - not realising that they'd begun the terminal dive - the tactics were for fighters to patrol the Channel, AA on a coastal belt and fighters over the Weald with barrage balloons as the last line of defence.

My involvement with this crash came about simply by accident. I do a lot of internet research about my village and accidentally mistyped the name, and up came this Tempest crash, which had also been mistyped and catalogued incorrectly..That meant no one else had connected the mistype with the correct village. The Australians have done Mackerras proud, with a Last Post ceremony and will be projecting his name in December, but nothing was known about it in the village. Only one old resident thought he remembered it, and gave me accurate details which I certainly hadn't fed him, so it bore out what I knew, except location. It didn't tie in with what I'd been given, so it needed a lot more determined digging to get it.

We did have a V1 land very close to the Church, and that was linked to the funeral of a village lad electrocuted when the barrage balloon he was attempting to tether but blown into nearby HT lines. That was 1st August and I wondered whether the V1 that exploded by the Church, and which showered mourners leaving in debris, had been the one that Mackerras attacked.

Unfortunately, the Church records show that Hugh was buried the next day (2nd August - which seemed unusually soon) and Mackerras crashed on the Sunday 6th August, so I can't use the "heroic pilot sacrificed his life steering doomed plane away from village, after downing V1 which would have destroyed the village" EXCEPT the first part is possibly true. I believe he force landed, as the police records give a partial serial number and Squadron code which indicates the aircraft broke apart and I know it caught fire. Suffice it to say that I had the DPA (not GDPR) and PMRA thrown at me before I was able to obtain the precise location. It didn't seem much point trying to organise a commemoration if, with dignitaries and perhaps family present, all we could say was that he crashed "somewhere around here". It's not a wreck site as exploding cannon shells were firing in all directions, and that isn't likely if buried deep in the earth. I will say I have looked over the area and have to say it has some beautiful views, not that it means much.

One aspect I'd be interested in is if Sqdn Leader R Dryland who was the other pilot on patrol, left any memories of this behind.
I'm also curious as to where the barrage balloon that caused all this came from. RAF Wartling wasn't far away and we're only a couple of miles from the coast, so the radar station might be the origin, as I thought all barrage balloons had moved back from coastal towns.

Any way, I'm filling a bit of space in before Skip returns from SSQ
Icare9 is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2018, 08:27
  #12413 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Sussex
Age: 77
Posts: 4,097
Icare9:-
Any way, I'm filling a bit of space in before Skip returns from SSQ
Ha, Ha! No more than the rest of us, Icare, and you raise some interesting points. Why was a Barrage Balloon there anyway, and where did it come from? No mention of any Balloon Command presence at Wartling here :-

Stations-W

and the Command's Organisation page in Wiki gives little away either :-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Balloon_Command

a more generic page though tells of a similar incident (the October Incident) on a much larger scale in 1942 in North America, which in turn led to a typical British wheeze, Operation Outward. I've certainly never heard of it before and suspect it was of very limited effect. It recalls though the Japanese balloons launched against the US West Coast :-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrage_balloon

an interesting site here about aircraft brought down by barrage balloons :-

http://www.bbrclub.org/Barrage%20Bal...0in%20WWII.htm

Last edited by Chugalug2; 24th Oct 2018 at 08:37.
Chugalug2 is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2018, 10:36
  #12414 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 429
Yes, where did it come from?
I have limited knowledge (says OH) about WW2 barrage balloons, except they were over major cities, towns and other important sites, such as docks, but I've not heard previous local comment about barrage balloons. At that time, approximately autumn 1944, I believe they were rearranged to be more of a barrier to the V1's., along the southern fringes of London, as the last line of defence if one had survived interception over the Channel, AA on the coast, more fighters inland and then the balloons.

It doesn't seem likely though that a balloon could have drifted so far south, and there are HT lines and pylons south of the Rec, so it may well have come from the north....
Just more examples of the misfortunes of war, one brave lad trying to stop a balloon (he did have a crowd of other kids to start with, but as the balloon drifted, so it shed more and more until he was the only one left) and presumably by then too high to safely let go.

Then a V1 narrowly misses the village, presumably brought don by a proximity fused AA shell and explodes; just as the funeral service ended, and a few days later th tempest crashed on the outskirts, attributed to being hit by our own AA fire (probably another proximity fuse) as he closed on a V1...

Presumably no one thought that a proximity fuse would also down anything it came close to, they were maximising their ability to shoot V1's down.

Hopefully Doc and Nurse 42C are getting Skip kitted up ready for Ops?..........
Icare9 is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2018, 10:43
  #12415 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 74
Posts: 5,210
.... and sorting out his bloody laptop!
MPN11 is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2018, 14:06
  #12416 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Sussex
Age: 77
Posts: 4,097
Interesting stats from the last link in my #12415. Of the 374 total cable strikes listed there, 310 were friendlies, 54 hostiles, the remaining 10 unknown. 91 friendlies and 25 hostiles were crashes, 38 and 1 respectively were forced landings. Of course, the deterrent effect forced hostile aircraft higher or around the balloon barrages, and there were far more friendlies in our skies than hostiles. The greater effectiveness of the armed cables is also of note.
Chugalug2 is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2018, 16:31
  #12417 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Warsaw
Posts: 104
What is the question in regard of V1? Tempests were most effective, then Griffon Spitfires and then Mustangs. Finally, the problem was solved with the arrival of proximity fuses for AAA.
Franek Grabowski is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2018, 19:44
  #12418 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: France
Age: 75
Posts: 6,315
MPN11/Danny - seconded. Neither Danny nor the laptop gets sick leave!
Wander00 is offline  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 10:32
  #12419 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: over the rainbow
Age: 70
Posts: 557
Hoping for a speedy recovery of Danny and his laptop.

Behind the paywall of today's Telegraph is the Obituary of a New Zealand pilot who took part in many dangerous operations in WWII and who went on post war to enjoy to a distinguished flying career in the Royal Air Force. retiring in 1976 as an AVM.

Fortunately his story is told in today's Sydney Morning Herald.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/ww2-...25-p50bx5.html
roving is online now  
Old 25th Oct 2018, 13:01
  #12420 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Sussex
Age: 77
Posts: 4,097
Thank you for the link, Roving. A varied and eventful career indeed! Ironic that having survived WWII, as a Gp Capt he almost met his maker trapped in a blazing and upturned Lightning. BZs to the crash crew who managed to extricate him alive. No doubt he showed his gratitude in the appropriate way!
Chugalug2 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.