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Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

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Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

Old 2nd May 2017, 19:29
  #10541 (permalink)  
 
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MPN11 (#10541),

Yup. 10 F-35 can be in ten places at once. The 100 Mig-25s can be in 100 places at once.

Danny.
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Old 2nd May 2017, 22:48
  #10542 (permalink)  
 
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It worked in Europe in WWII too.
The Sherman was a pretty average tank, although far better than the dross we were building until 1945, but there were thousands of them. I think I read somewhere they built 35,000 of them - but that might have been the T34.
The Tiger and Panther, both armed with the legendary 88mm gun, were much better but fortunately the Germans didn't have enough of them.

Edit: Wiki says just short of 50,000 Shermans and 84,000 T34s.
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Old 3rd May 2017, 08:02
  #10543 (permalink)  
 
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Any why were there not enough Tigers? One reason what that they were complex, time-consuming and expensive to build, just like the ... [you know what comes next]
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Old 3rd May 2017, 10:22
  #10544 (permalink)  
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F-35 in the tens versus Mig-35 or Su-T50 in the hundreds?
The Russian Air Force isn't what it was in the past, they shrank a lot faster than us because their economy collapsed. Slowly adding penny packets of new aircraft - but slowly, and they have a lot of area to cover.......

Russian Air Force Order of Battle
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Old 3rd May 2017, 10:54
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Interesting link, which I followed up with Google Earth.

Yes, lots of spare metal lying around at some of those location!
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Old 3rd May 2017, 11:43
  #10546 (permalink)  
 
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Mass does tend to overwhelm skill/equipment. Should we worry?

Was it Molotov or Mikoyan who said "quantity has a quality of its own"?
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Old 3rd May 2017, 13:53
  #10547 (permalink)  
 
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FZ:-
Was it Molotov or Mikoyan who said "quantity has a quality of its own"?
The Ancient Greeks it seems, and a founding premise of Communist doctrine as sometimes attributed to Engels and Marx but usually to Stalin re the defeat of the Wehrmacht by the Red Army. However, others point to the 1970's US Defence establishment.

"Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice". Now who said that....?

?Quantity has a quality all its own? | writing notes
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Old 4th May 2017, 07:24
  #10548 (permalink)  
 
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A propos of nothing. Antiques find.


Japanese artist's impression of the air attacks on Port Darwin on 20th and 22nd June 1943. Booklet written by Tojo Hideki in autumn of 1943 found in an antiques stall. Somewhat like a War Picture Library comic from the other side.


If I can post a photograph, and if there is any interest, I will add a translation. If no photograph(s) forthcoming, assume that it failed. Oh, yes, the attack too!
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Old 4th May 2017, 07:58
  #10549 (permalink)  
 
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jolihokistix, welcome to our virtual crewroom. It is not the usual venue available to an international gathering. Forget shiny new Olympic Stadiums or International Exhibitions in striking architecturally state of the art galleries. The corrugated iron construction is beginning to look more like filigree lace, the interior is best described as shabby chic, but the conversation is both friendly and varied. So take a seat and join in.

Your thumbnail picture attached fine, and it looks as though the Zeros (or Oscars?) are having a field day. The corresponding text would be of great interest, so a translation would be greatly appreciated.

Many years ago an attempt was made to ask German pilot veterans to post on this thread, but alas it came to naught. The same invitation goes out to all such veterans, whether they were friend or foe alike in those terrible years. Failing that, artefacts such as yours that portrayed their nation's aspirations and attitudes remind us that there are two sides at least to every conflict. We may not accept them, but we should at least consider them.
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Old 4th May 2017, 08:14
  #10550 (permalink)  
 
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Chugalug2, many thanks for the kind introduction. This place looks good. Forgive that sudden bolt from the blue. I live in Japan and often run across interesting things, but having heard so many stories from friends and relatives, I am too aware of the terrible suffering that many had to go through in those days. For this reason I hesitated to post, but if some of your members would be interested I will translate it. It may take a little time. If anyone objects, please let me know.

Please be assured that I am not an apologist, but a semi-scholar. What I translate is word-for-word from a propaganda booklet, and not my own view or opinion in any way. My first thought was how an artist back in 1943 perceived British fighter planes based in Australia. Naturally I suppose they had to be shown going down in flames.


I was interested to read on this site that early Japanese raids took off from aircraft carriers. As will be seen in this article, their operations base was a secret at the time.
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Old 4th May 2017, 08:31
  #10551 (permalink)  
 
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Greetings from me too, jolihokistix. All information/translation is useful. I think most of us are old enough and wise enough to understand that those were different times.

BTW, I love your user-name
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Old 4th May 2017, 11:19
  #10552 (permalink)  
 
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MPN11, thanks! Right, here goes nothing!




(Using an old dictionary here to find outdated characters and expressions, with no-one nearby to consult! Although the pamphlet itself proclaims ‘Minister for the Army,General Tojo Hideki’ as author on the cover, this particular article is signed by one Yoshioka Kenji.)





Army air force attacks Port Darwin for the first time





In the southern Pacific Ocean, our army air force has doubled up with the naval air forces to impressive effect since the start of the war, and now finally their hands have reached the Australian mainland. Port Darwin, the enemy’s greatest base, located in the northwest tip,was subjected to a first great bombing by our ‘army eagles’.


In the early hours of June 20th Showa 18 (1943), a large bomber formation of ‘army eagles’ solemnly assembled and left XX aerodrome, flying over the Arafura Sea below, and proceeded into western lands. At 10:20 in the morning they pounced upon Australia’s frontline Port of Darwin, struggling feverishly to resupply itself under repeated hammer attacks by the naval airforces. At this sudden attack, an enemy force of 40-plus Spitfires came up in angry challenge, and the skies above Port Darwin were enveloped in incredible explosive sounds and flames as a vast aerial battle was set off. Our supreme warbirds took out 27 enemy fighters in no time at all, and we took our leave. At the same time, our bombers left behind what looked like a burning net on the ground of several areas of flaming army barracks; the buildings at the eastern airstrip were also set alight, dealing the enemy a heavy exhaustive blow.


To prove how fierce had been this first attack by the army air forces, two days later on 22 June when a large formation of our fighters made a follow-up attack on Port Darwin, not a single enemy plane was sent up to meet us, and the area was observed to be burnt out and flattened, showing starkly the truth of the matter.”



(Translation guaranteed 97% accurate, jolihokistix, 4 May 2017. The 3% is just to be on the safe side!)

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Old 4th May 2017, 11:29
  #10553 (permalink)  
 
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Close-ups!
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Old 4th May 2017, 11:51
  #10554 (permalink)  
 
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jolihokisticks (#10550),

Welcome aboard !

And thanks ! Interesting ! As far as I can see, it represents the artist's idea of a weird two-seat (?) Hurricane (?) (roundels and tail markings wrong, should be blue & white, camo roughly right) being shot down by "Zeros" (or "Oscars"), while a fleet of "Bettys" ("Sallys" ?) sails serenely on. Formations a bit funny -"Close finger five" ? (which never was).

From a single experience, and from what I heard, the Jap always bombed in "Vic", or "Vic of Vics" (with navigation lights even at night), so F/Sgt Pring was able to "get three Bettys for the price of one" inside a minute with his Beaufighter one night over Calcutta). But their formation was Red Arrow standard.

Please let us have the translation ! EDIT: Ta !

Danny.

EDIT: No, not Spitfires (were there any in Oz at that time ?) - the one in plan view does not have a Spitfire wing (not pointy enough).

Last edited by Danny42C; 4th May 2017 at 12:09. Reason: Overtaken by Events.
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Old 4th May 2017, 11:51
  #10555 (permalink)  
 
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We still commemorate 19 February 1942 here in Darwin. Second to ANZAC Day.

Along with the JAAF contingent, the Imperial Navy task group that had attacked Pearl Harbour came by, dropping a greater tonnage on Darwin than they had at Pearl.

The RAAF had no fighters in place. There were half a dozen USAAF P-40's enroute to the East Indies and a handful of Hudsons and Catalinas that didn't get off the ground.

The air raid sirens didn't sound until the bombs were already falling. A radio warning from the mission on Melville Island did not register with those in command.

It was the first and largest raid on Australia with an official death toll around 236.

The air base, port and town were flattened.

And the censors saw to it that no one heard about it at the time.

And the fighters were Zero's.
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Old 4th May 2017, 12:00
  #10556 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks, Danny, for the welcome, and the background information. (See completed translation in #10554 above) Yes, it's a weird Hurrifire or Spitcane, even though it definitely says 'Spitfires'. Artistic license?


CoodaShooda, isn't that strange! I was wondering about these dates, a year later, and whether these (later?) raids may not have been reported in Australia. Or could they be false news propaganda for the Japanese public? (Especially the bit about shooting down so many 'Spitfires'.)

Last edited by jolihokistix; 4th May 2017 at 14:56.
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Old 4th May 2017, 13:48
  #10557 (permalink)  
 
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I could suggest "Spitfire is famous, P-40 is not". This was for Public consumption, after all, and not an accurate Combat Report! The image is a good combination of all 3 types, though ... P-40 cockpit glazing, Spitfire tail unit and Hurricane wings

I could do Propaganda, if paid enough!!
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Old 4th May 2017, 14:24
  #10558 (permalink)  
 
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and after all that, in 1974 cyclone Tracy did everything the Japanese wanted to do.

Cyclone Tracy, Darwin - Fact sheet 176 ? National Archives of Australia, Australian Government
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Old 5th May 2017, 02:11
  #10559 (permalink)  
 
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That blue dotted line reminds me of the red one that the Chinese have slung around the south China Sea. Was this the imagined extent of the Greater East Asia Prosperity Zone that the Japanese envisaged, stopping between those large islands and Australia? The remark about Goshu (Australia) being western lands adds to this feeling that Australia was to be 'outside' and not being considered for invasion. Was the mass attack on Darwin to cut supply routes, yes, but primarily to signify to the west to keep out of Indonesia and SW Asia?
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Old 5th May 2017, 02:33
  #10560 (permalink)  
 
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Darwin has a habit of being flattened.

Particularly with major cyclones in the late 1800's, 1937 and 1974.

Then the Japanese in 1942/43. There were around 70 more raids into northern Australia after the first one. The Japanese also raided Broome and Exmouth to the far west and up to 300km south to Katherine.

The object was to deny the Allies a base in the region.

As I understand it, the Japanese Navy wanted to invade Australia but the Army wasn't so keen. Nevertheless, a fair deal of contingency planning seems to gone into the possible invasion.

A friend of my father was a Lt Col in the occupation forces and once dined with an official who claimed to have been the Mayor-designate of Melbourne had the invasion gone ahead. The chap had a very detailed knowledge of Melbourne, even knowing the number of the tram that ran past the Col's front door at home.

The Spitfires didn't arrive in Darwin until February 1943. Until then, we relied on the USAAF's P-40s for air cover.

The Spits were fairly evenly matched in results with the Zero, with both sides drawing blood. On the occasion the JAAF dropped by with an Oscar escort, several Oscars were lost with no losses for the Spits.
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