Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
Cunning Artificer
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Aunt Sarah’s orifice
Tilly Shilling is a legendary RAE Engineer who came up with the idea. Thus you can choose between "Miss Shillings Orifice" or, in Fighter Command, "Miss Tilly's Diaphragm".
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RFCC
Suggest you look up Link 408 Page 21 and then you will not be left hanging. Thanks for the thread. It is very gratifying to know when people are reading your long gone past. Lots of luck with the horses or is that the wrong sort of horse? All the best Reg.
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Gentlemen, I thank you for once again, passing on your memories and reminiscences. I was absoloutely cracked-up at the thought of "crane-jousting" A sign of the harrowing times you went through,that most of these "diversions" seemed to be studiously ignored byofficialdom. I'm sure that today's youth would be subject to a load of social workers,supervision orders and the like.
I remember Alvar Liddell anouncing his prescence on the wireless and his intention to read the News......It struck me as highly exotic, the name "Alvar"....again there were many other unusual names in public life.
Stafford and Anaurin, for two examples.
No doubt today's man would announce himself as "Al Varley Dell "
Please keep the tales coming- It's the trivia that brings them to life, the little snippets that give a glimpse into those past times.
regards, Steve.
I remember Alvar Liddell anouncing his prescence on the wireless and his intention to read the News......It struck me as highly exotic, the name "Alvar"....again there were many other unusual names in public life.
Stafford and Anaurin, for two examples.
No doubt today's man would announce himself as "Al Varley Dell "
Please keep the tales coming- It's the trivia that brings them to life, the little snippets that give a glimpse into those past times.
regards, Steve.
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Cocknet Steve..Officialdom
I am glad that you are enjoying our "wandering in times past". One of the best things about them was the fact that some of the so called "diversions" were not only overlooked but , quite often, instigated or joined in by the very people that , normally, would be called upon to deal with the results. I can recall the , then , Commanding Officer of 2 Group Light Bombers, Basil Embry, visiting one of his stations for an inspection. Before I tell you what happened , you should know that he was a very small man and had , earlier in his career, been shot down over enemy territory. He had escaped capture but had strangled a German sentry with his bare hands and was a very much wanted man but succeeded in getting back to England .
He was an Air Vice Marshal,I think, when he came to the Station where, after the Inspection, he had a few drinks at the bar with the Station Commander then said goodnight to everyone and retired. About fifteen minutes later his head peered around the door and he came back in but wearing an ill fitting, Pilot Officer's Jacket. "Now that the old bas...d's gone......" he said and the evening started there and then.
This was fairly typical of the Officialdom in the RAF and was one of the main reasons for the very high morale of the Service.
Keep on enjoying the memories. They can't go on for ever. Regle.
He was an Air Vice Marshal,I think, when he came to the Station where, after the Inspection, he had a few drinks at the bar with the Station Commander then said goodnight to everyone and retired. About fifteen minutes later his head peered around the door and he came back in but wearing an ill fitting, Pilot Officer's Jacket. "Now that the old bas...d's gone......" he said and the evening started there and then.
This was fairly typical of the Officialdom in the RAF and was one of the main reasons for the very high morale of the Service.
Keep on enjoying the memories. They can't go on for ever. Regle.
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Still Rambling On
Before I start my journey to St Athan, no doubt sitting on my kitbag , or standing all the way. I would like to ask Andy to obtain permission from Reg to put photos ( Stirling and helmet and goggles ?) on the PPRUNE thread Sticky photos. (just enter sticky photos in the search box)
To give you an idea of how they appear, look for mine on page 34 number 663 . You will also find an alphabetical list on or near this page.
Thanks for that BLACKSHEEP I see from your profile you are a specialist on single malt. Have a Glenmonrangie on me.
RECORDER . Very interesting ,and your item re Coles cranes, reminded me there are some
pics of Coles cranes on the C.D Night Bomber showing an engine being replaced on a Lancaster and also lifting a rear turret. They are lifting in the latest type of turret, I think with two .5 s and no rear Perspex, which means the poor tail end Charlie is almost in the open air. Are there any old A.Gs out their who could tell us what it was like when firing ‘athwart ships’ . I did practice firing in the rear turret, but as the target was a drogue towed behind the aircraft, wind wasn’t a problem, cold was.
Sorry, RAMBLING again.
Night bomber used no actors, only people on the station, showing such scenes as Lancasters taxying along the perry track, taking off on a bombing raid, and pics taken from inside the fuselage. Think these inside pics were produced by kippering an old scrap Lanc., unofficially of course.
The original film was taken on a black and white , clockwork 16 mm camera . during wartime. Think it is now enhanced and in colour on C.D. It was produced unofficially (very) by a Group Captain Henyry Cozins , is factual and shows life as it was at Hemswell 150 sqdn during the war. A V.H.S version is on offer at the moment on Ebay. I would recommend it to any aviation historian .
Back to the story again.
On the train to S. Wales I seem to remember thinking the course would be a ‘piece of cake’. After all what could an engineer do up in the air at 20,000 feet. Little did I know that I was in for an intensive two months course, copious notes, exams , and burning the midnight oil again. Some relief was gained when I chummed up with other Sgt pilots and found one good “singing pub” in Tiger Bay Swansea, and another in Bridgend, both easily accessible by steam train, from St Athan station.
The first page of my exercise book is headed P.F.E course St Athan, and the second, a hand drawing of the Lancaster fuselage, showing all escape hatches, fire axes, and position of the six fuel tanks, which with a bit of luck I will produce below.
At first sight copying the drawing from the blackboard seemed an easy task until we were informed we had to memorise every detail , as we may have to reproduce the drawing from memory on our final exam papers. We copied many more such drawings which resulted in much more spare time swatting. However , my admiration for the R.A.F education staff, and methods, if any thing increased. It became obvious that what we were taught , and when each subject was taught ,had been expertly developed into a rigid curriculum , and if one instructor was unavailable, then another could take over precisely where the previous one had finished. We were next lectured on the construction of the fuselage, even down to how the five sections were joined together by high tensile nuts and bolts, but we were soon to find out that this was very elementary, compared with the systems we had to draw and memorise later.
P.S Does any one know the meaning of ‘public groups‘ found under profiles.?
When I click on a contributors profile I see under public groups “ *** is not a member of any public group” Also , what is the difference between the B.B.M.F Lancaster flypast, and Lancaster display? A Lancaster display is to be held at Pocklington, on 10th May. If it is on the ground I may visit.
To give you an idea of how they appear, look for mine on page 34 number 663 . You will also find an alphabetical list on or near this page.
Thanks for that BLACKSHEEP I see from your profile you are a specialist on single malt. Have a Glenmonrangie on me.
RECORDER . Very interesting ,and your item re Coles cranes, reminded me there are some
pics of Coles cranes on the C.D Night Bomber showing an engine being replaced on a Lancaster and also lifting a rear turret. They are lifting in the latest type of turret, I think with two .5 s and no rear Perspex, which means the poor tail end Charlie is almost in the open air. Are there any old A.Gs out their who could tell us what it was like when firing ‘athwart ships’ . I did practice firing in the rear turret, but as the target was a drogue towed behind the aircraft, wind wasn’t a problem, cold was.
Sorry, RAMBLING again.
Night bomber used no actors, only people on the station, showing such scenes as Lancasters taxying along the perry track, taking off on a bombing raid, and pics taken from inside the fuselage. Think these inside pics were produced by kippering an old scrap Lanc., unofficially of course.
The original film was taken on a black and white , clockwork 16 mm camera . during wartime. Think it is now enhanced and in colour on C.D. It was produced unofficially (very) by a Group Captain Henyry Cozins , is factual and shows life as it was at Hemswell 150 sqdn during the war. A V.H.S version is on offer at the moment on Ebay. I would recommend it to any aviation historian .
Back to the story again.
On the train to S. Wales I seem to remember thinking the course would be a ‘piece of cake’. After all what could an engineer do up in the air at 20,000 feet. Little did I know that I was in for an intensive two months course, copious notes, exams , and burning the midnight oil again. Some relief was gained when I chummed up with other Sgt pilots and found one good “singing pub” in Tiger Bay Swansea, and another in Bridgend, both easily accessible by steam train, from St Athan station.
The first page of my exercise book is headed P.F.E course St Athan, and the second, a hand drawing of the Lancaster fuselage, showing all escape hatches, fire axes, and position of the six fuel tanks, which with a bit of luck I will produce below.
At first sight copying the drawing from the blackboard seemed an easy task until we were informed we had to memorise every detail , as we may have to reproduce the drawing from memory on our final exam papers. We copied many more such drawings which resulted in much more spare time swatting. However , my admiration for the R.A.F education staff, and methods, if any thing increased. It became obvious that what we were taught , and when each subject was taught ,had been expertly developed into a rigid curriculum , and if one instructor was unavailable, then another could take over precisely where the previous one had finished. We were next lectured on the construction of the fuselage, even down to how the five sections were joined together by high tensile nuts and bolts, but we were soon to find out that this was very elementary, compared with the systems we had to draw and memorise later.
P.S Does any one know the meaning of ‘public groups‘ found under profiles.?
When I click on a contributors profile I see under public groups “ *** is not a member of any public group” Also , what is the difference between the B.B.M.F Lancaster flypast, and Lancaster display? A Lancaster display is to be held at Pocklington, on 10th May. If it is on the ground I may visit.
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Burnaston
Mention of 16 EFTS Burnaston (now home to Toyota, not Honda), where I spent a few weeks in the spring of '44 bashing Tiger Moths round the hills & dales of the southern Peak District, reminds me that the CO was also the owner of the airfield and its flying school! Apparently he was conveniently enrolled as a Wg Cdr at the outbreak of war - surely a rather unusual arrangement, given possible conflicts of interest? Incidentally, where was Battlestead in relation to Burnaston – I recall the name, but nothing else about it.
After a brief return to Harrogate I was posted to 21 AFU Taten Hill, finding its location just north of Burton a great blessing given the beer drought prevailing that summer. As the virtual capital of the British brewing industry it had more than its fair share of pubs, so while other places sometimes ran dry one could always rely on finding a hostelry able to produce the necessary; to this day the aroma of brewing brings memories of that time flooding back!
After a brief return to Harrogate I was posted to 21 AFU Taten Hill, finding its location just north of Burton a great blessing given the beer drought prevailing that summer. As the virtual capital of the British brewing industry it had more than its fair share of pubs, so while other places sometimes ran dry one could always rely on finding a hostelry able to produce the necessary; to this day the aroma of brewing brings memories of that time flooding back!
cliffnemo, "public groups" are an option that the vbulletin software (which is what is running this bulletin board) can use. If you are a member of a group you can see forums which I cannot, and vice-versa. As an example, if you are a moderator here, you can see the moderator forum (where the crimes of commoners such as thee and me are discussed.) PPRuNe (indeed named after Pilot Officer Prune from the war cartoons) doesn't use the public groups option for any other reason.
A while back you also commented on some of the words you saw being coloured red - this highlighting happens when you search for a thread (the search words are coloured red.)
I would guess that the Lancaster display would be on the ground, and flypast in the air.
(Still loving the stories )
A while back you also commented on some of the words you saw being coloured red - this highlighting happens when you search for a thread (the search words are coloured red.)
I would guess that the Lancaster display would be on the ground, and flypast in the air.
(Still loving the stories
)
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Cliff
Cliff, you constantly astonish me with your technical knowlege and memory. I am certain that you would have made a first class Instructor. Did your thoughts ever stray thataways ?
I will call Andy tomorrow and ask him to post some more pictures but I have never taken any of Stirlings.. I tried to keep as far away from them as I could. I am enjoying your threads immensely. Keep them coming, Reg
I will call Andy tomorrow and ask him to post some more pictures but I have never taken any of Stirlings.. I tried to keep as far away from them as I could. I am enjoying your threads immensely. Keep them coming, Reg
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Cliff, a display will probably be a proper airshow type aerobatic display,( but the BBMF don't throw them about). A flypast is basically just a fly by, but from all the ones I've seen, you usually get 3 passes from the participating aircraft. Hope your able to see it, and keep up with the stories, this sandbag is really comfy.
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Upside down over Munich
There you go ready for Reg to explain RFCC, I am reliably informed that this shot was taken over Munich. As I am flying to that very City this Wednesday I shall research any eye witness accounts, whilst refreshing myself with plenty of Pilsner!
Reg, how are you going to get the pictures to me to post for you?
Cliff, my next lesson with Reg (as it's a 300 mile round journey) is how to scan and post!
Last edited by andyl999; 16th Mar 2009 at 16:33. Reason: spelling as always
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Subject Normal 'elsan Toilets'
Andy, if nothing else you have answered the question , who empties the Elsan. It's obvious, they used to send Regle up to do a bit of inverted fllying.
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Ahh yes, but who then empties the *ahem* rest of the aeroplane?? 
I've just been given a heap of photos and letters and stuff from the family of an ex 467 Sqn Lancaster pilot. Some of them are pretty good - I'll scan them today and try to post soon if anyone's interested.
I've just been given a heap of photos and letters and stuff from the family of an ex 467 Sqn Lancaster pilot. Some of them are pretty good - I'll scan them today and try to post soon if anyone's interested.
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I'd imagine someone from or close to the BBMF would be around here somewhere. Seems to me that a "Special Invitation" for a close-up look around PA474 would be in order...
Cliff could teach the young whipper-snappers a thing or two as well.
Cliff could teach the young whipper-snappers a thing or two as well.
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elsan
I don't know what you are complaining about Reg and Cliff, looks quite comfortable and spacious to me?
Plus it looks as though you have the added advantage that you can throw out some flares and treat the wounded whilst still being sat down?
If you want to read a humourous story about a pilot actually using one read this:-
A Thousand Shall Fall: The True ... - Google Book Search
Quite funny really, just shows that the pilots had tricks played on them?
Last edited by andyl999; 17th Mar 2009 at 14:19. Reason: ahhhh
I understand that it wasn't unknown for the Elsan to be emptied over Das Reich?
Which prompted a Luftwaffe chap to complain that the RAF was breaching international conventions on the use of biological weapons!
Which prompted a Luftwaffe chap to complain that the RAF was breaching international conventions on the use of biological weapons!
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OK then, here's two to get you started. The pilot in question was S/Ldr DPS (Phil) Smith.
The aircrew of 103 Sqn, Elsham Wolds, in around 1941 or 42. Phil survived a tour of ops on Wellingtons - no mean feat in itself - before going to 467 Sqn and Lancasters (which is where he flew with my grandfather's uncle - hence my connection). I'm not sure if Phil is in this photo, I have a bigger scan of it but it won't fit here - I will need to have a close look at each face in turn to see if I recognise him.
'My' crew, which is the focus of my research, infront of a Lancaster. We believe at Waddington, the light on the right is the nav light and the bright light is the landing light of the Lancaster - both put on especially for this photo.
The crew, L-R:
1352851 Sgt Eric Reginald HILL (Mid-upper gunner, RAF)
423311 F/S Gilbert Firth PATE (Rear gunner, RAAF)
1350279 Sgt Kenneth Harold TABOR (Flight engineer, RAF)
425413 F/S Alistair Dale JOHNSTON (Wireless operator, RAAF)
400495 S/L Donald Philip Smeed SMITH (Pilot, RAAF)
412686 W/O Royston William PURCELL (Navigator, RAAF - my connection)
658844 F/S Jeremiah PARKER (Bomb aimer, RAF)
Apart from Phil Smith, all were KIA 10 May 1944 when their Lancaster exploded over Lille in France. Phil was blown out of the windscreen and parachuted to safety, evaded capture and survived the war.
More to come when I have a chance to look closely at everything!
The aircrew of 103 Sqn, Elsham Wolds, in around 1941 or 42. Phil survived a tour of ops on Wellingtons - no mean feat in itself - before going to 467 Sqn and Lancasters (which is where he flew with my grandfather's uncle - hence my connection). I'm not sure if Phil is in this photo, I have a bigger scan of it but it won't fit here - I will need to have a close look at each face in turn to see if I recognise him.
'My' crew, which is the focus of my research, infront of a Lancaster. We believe at Waddington, the light on the right is the nav light and the bright light is the landing light of the Lancaster - both put on especially for this photo.
The crew, L-R:
1352851 Sgt Eric Reginald HILL (Mid-upper gunner, RAF)
423311 F/S Gilbert Firth PATE (Rear gunner, RAAF)
1350279 Sgt Kenneth Harold TABOR (Flight engineer, RAF)
425413 F/S Alistair Dale JOHNSTON (Wireless operator, RAAF)
400495 S/L Donald Philip Smeed SMITH (Pilot, RAAF)
412686 W/O Royston William PURCELL (Navigator, RAAF - my connection)
658844 F/S Jeremiah PARKER (Bomb aimer, RAF)
Apart from Phil Smith, all were KIA 10 May 1944 when their Lancaster exploded over Lille in France. Phil was blown out of the windscreen and parachuted to safety, evaded capture and survived the war.
More to come when I have a chance to look closely at everything!
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Phil was blown out of the windscreen and parachuted to safety
As many have said before me, please keep the stories coming.