Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
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Thank you Union Jack. When you have known so many of theses chaps as friend, and really know them you can only wonder at their courage. Earlier this year I recorded a 101 (SD) Squadron Lancaster pilot. He is happy for his tale to be told on this thread. I shall be seeing him later this week to go over his training in more detail. There are three more WW11 pilots I have on tape but they can wait.
When you have known so many of theses chaps as friend, and really know them you can only wonder at their courage.
Or, to paraphrase what Danny has said more than once, they fought the war they were given.
There are three more WW11 pilots I have on tape but they can wait.
BB, you are a tease - and, if I may so, perhaps more of a Hasselblad really!
Jack
Or, to paraphrase what Danny has said more than once, they fought the war they were given.
There are three more WW11 pilots I have on tape but they can wait.
BB, you are a tease - and, if I may so, perhaps more of a Hasselblad really!
Jack
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Too much info ... I shall have to read that tomorrow.
I just LOVE "Wg Cdr X"
I just LOVE "Wg Cdr X"
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Jagan (#9488),
Tantalising, but we only have figures for the first four weeks, totalling some 15 hours, but do not show how much of this was true "solo" ie, no one in the aircraft except the pupil, "dual" (instructor in back seat to advise, can fly the thing but cannot trim, and has no u/c controls, only stick, rudder and throttle. How many weeks did the Course last ?
I went to war with 26.30 total on VV (only first 0.35 dual) over 3 months. Would include approx 100 practice high-level dives.
Q: Where did the OTU Instructors come from ? (Quis custodiet ?)
Or pupil in back, instructor in front, pupil in back can do little more than follow-through instructor and fly on stick and rudder but no more.
In contrast, I flew 10.05 in 26 days in Jan'43, but only the first 35 mins was "air experience" in the back, all the rest solo (and for ever after, although I would have a nav, or a gunner, or any odd bod, for in the early days you had to have someone in the back to work the 'wobble pump' if necessary (suppose T.C-T. would say I was the "sole" pilot !).
Surprised that the W.Ops worked C/W. There was only R/T in our aircraft - no morse key I remember.
Questions, questions !
Danny.
Tantalising, but we only have figures for the first four weeks, totalling some 15 hours, but do not show how much of this was true "solo" ie, no one in the aircraft except the pupil, "dual" (instructor in back seat to advise, can fly the thing but cannot trim, and has no u/c controls, only stick, rudder and throttle. How many weeks did the Course last ?
I went to war with 26.30 total on VV (only first 0.35 dual) over 3 months. Would include approx 100 practice high-level dives.
Q: Where did the OTU Instructors come from ? (Quis custodiet ?)
Or pupil in back, instructor in front, pupil in back can do little more than follow-through instructor and fly on stick and rudder but no more.
In contrast, I flew 10.05 in 26 days in Jan'43, but only the first 35 mins was "air experience" in the back, all the rest solo (and for ever after, although I would have a nav, or a gunner, or any odd bod, for in the early days you had to have someone in the back to work the 'wobble pump' if necessary (suppose T.C-T. would say I was the "sole" pilot !).
Surprised that the W.Ops worked C/W. There was only R/T in our aircraft - no morse key I remember.
Questions, questions !
Danny.
Box Brownie. Very sorry to hear that John's logbook cannot be located. We can only hope that it eventually comes to light. Thank goodness that you had the foresight to photograph the key pages though! The Record of Service is, to say the least, very comprehensive, whereby not only the many units from St Johns Wood onwards are listed, but even the troop ships to and from Canada! Thereafter; Harrogate, Hereford, 6EFTS Sywell (doing the instructing that he had rebelled against in Canada?), before No.18 PEC London (any ideas anyone? Is this when he gets given the L5 job?) Finally to India and 221 Group Comm. Sqn. Is this at last the Sqn ID that has so eluded us? It would seem so, though of course the 30 L5's would have been a part (Flight?) only rather than the entirety of 221 Gp Comm Sqn.
9 days before the rescue attempt he remarks "Hit !!!!". Presumably by something less neutral than the Burma treetops they were wont to brush!
The Wg Cdr at least scores his rank if not his name, the Indian soldier neither (but I'm sure that he wasn't complaining!). Interestingly the Corps Commander is flown three times though not named (no need of course, everyone would know, but do we?) I assume that the Supreme Commander (Mountbatten) was in one of the other aircraft in the four ship formation doing a Beachhead Recce (bit chancy, but who was going to say no?).
All fascinating stuff BB, thank you! It just shows what an invaluable historical document a pilots logbook is (though some are more so than others! ;-).
9 days before the rescue attempt he remarks "Hit !!!!". Presumably by something less neutral than the Burma treetops they were wont to brush!
The Wg Cdr at least scores his rank if not his name, the Indian soldier neither (but I'm sure that he wasn't complaining!). Interestingly the Corps Commander is flown three times though not named (no need of course, everyone would know, but do we?) I assume that the Supreme Commander (Mountbatten) was in one of the other aircraft in the four ship formation doing a Beachhead Recce (bit chancy, but who was going to say no?).
All fascinating stuff BB, thank you! It just shows what an invaluable historical document a pilots logbook is (though some are more so than others! ;-).
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Thank you Chug. The session at No6 EFTS Sywell was for the intensive short take off and landing course for the thirty pilots John had recruited, prior to them going to India.
Reminds me of the session we did at Sywell when ETPS tried out the Twin Pin during the mid 90's, then with Air Atlantique. I swear we landed and took off from the helipad!
The Corps Commander would be General Messervey.
Re log books, I have two that were found by a friend in a skip. A Navy pilot who flew in Burma. At some stage perhaps some pages can go on the thread.
Reminds me of the session we did at Sywell when ETPS tried out the Twin Pin during the mid 90's, then with Air Atlantique. I swear we landed and took off from the helipad!
The Corps Commander would be General Messervey.
Re log books, I have two that were found by a friend in a skip. A Navy pilot who flew in Burma. At some stage perhaps some pages can go on the thread.
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BB (#9509),
In what capacity did he "recruit" ? And from where ? Didn't Air Ministry (P2 ?) have any interest in the proceedings ?
In the logbook page, top left, what would you say is written under "Year" ?
And if only it'd been the (next) page with the Monthly Summary, we'd have the exact date, the unit, and (probably) Flight and Squadron Commander's names, too.
I know, I know, patience - and all will be revealed !
Chugalug (my #9401),
With a General behind you, people listen when you tell 'em !
Danny.
...intensive short take off and landing course for the thirty pilots John had recruited...
In the logbook page, top left, what would you say is written under "Year" ?
And if only it'd been the (next) page with the Monthly Summary, we'd have the exact date, the unit, and (probably) Flight and Squadron Commander's names, too.
I know, I know, patience - and all will be revealed !
Chugalug (my #9401),
...I too, wondered about John, he now seems to be a man of considerable authority (although being a personal pilot to a Lieut-General [Messervy] carrys considerable 'clout' - he's an ADC in all but name)...
Danny.
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Chugalug (#9475),
No trace Google or Wiki. But I know something of the sort existed (can't ever remember reading the paper, however). But the "SEAC Anson" trundled round the major airfields on a monthly basis, delivering the things, I'm sure (don't think they actually air-dropped). Anybody else remember ?
Danny.
No trace Google or Wiki. But I know something of the sort existed (can't ever remember reading the paper, however). But the "SEAC Anson" trundled round the major airfields on a monthly basis, delivering the things, I'm sure (don't think they actually air-dropped). Anybody else remember ?
Danny.
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Reminds me of the session we did at Sywell when ETPS tried out the Twin Pin during the mid 90's, then with Air Atlantique. I swear we landed and took off from the helipad!
I had the 'pleasure' of a few trips with them ... an awesome experience, with their STOL capability and ultra low level flying. I vividly remember the back seat getting dark as the flaps came down!
As a Tengah ATCO, I used to have to fit them in with radar and visual circuit patterns with Lightnings, Mirages, Hunters and Canberras. "Orbit the Officers Mess at 300 feet, left hand pattern, I'll call you back"
I once had one, in a hefty crosswind, which I cleared to land across the runway by the 36 threshold, who then taxied straight ahead into F Dispersal where they lived.Fg Off Pete Squire [later ACM Sir Peter, etc etc] was one of the early converts to the Single Pin on 20 Sqn. Having done a year or so as an Operational pilot on Hunter 9s*, he was moved to C Flt, and became one of the Sqn's airborne FACs. I have a photo of him receiving his "Op Pot" for the S-Pin in the 'dispersal' on the jungle strip at Gemas in up-country Malaya.
Anyway ... all too modern. Sorry.
* and, while I was the Local Controller, ejected over Tengah Village. His 'chute deployed just as I lost sight of him in the tree-tops.
There has been talk of an elusive 'SEAC News', and although I know nothing of this I do have two copies of the "Journal of the Air Forces India and Far East Edition"Volume 2 Nos 2 and 9 dated 10th of March and 16th of June 1944. Could these 'Journals' be what has been thought to be the 'SEAC News'?
My late father kept these two journals as they both contain poems he contributed whilst attached to Air HQ India before joining No 215 Squadron (Wellington 10s and then Liberators). The first poem, 'Sundial Serenade' was really one way of having a dig at what I take to be the office responsible for postings to outlandish camps, described as '557'. (Danny, do you recall if this was so?) The second poem, 'Temporary Duty - And How' describes being ordered to attend a Tiger Hunt, completely 'tongue in cheek', of course.
My late father kept these two journals as they both contain poems he contributed whilst attached to Air HQ India before joining No 215 Squadron (Wellington 10s and then Liberators). The first poem, 'Sundial Serenade' was really one way of having a dig at what I take to be the office responsible for postings to outlandish camps, described as '557'. (Danny, do you recall if this was so?) The second poem, 'Temporary Duty - And How' describes being ordered to attend a Tiger Hunt, completely 'tongue in cheek', of course.
Last edited by Nugget90; 13th Oct 2016 at 07:39. Reason: Sneaky predictive spelling error
One advantage of the Pioneer was that one could take off from Long Sumado in Borneo, find out that the topographical gradient was steeper than the angle of climb, plop it into the trees and walk back down to the strip so as to tell everybody what happened.
Apologies for the quality of the picture. It's that crap German Agfa film.
Apologies for the quality of the picture. It's that crap German Agfa film.
Nugget, SEAC News would have covered all three Services by its very nature, whereas your publication sounds as if it is Air Force only related. That's not to say that it didn't come from the same stable. There seems to have been a lot of "media" happening at the same time, ie broadcasting, publishing, filming, and some merging from one into the other as it were. Here is an example on YouTube:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vwufzLrRPI
As usual, I've spent far too long on YouTube! Following link to link I stumbled on this; RAF in Canada and Burma, and all in colour! I would guess that an RAF (RCAF?) cine enthusiast was using his rare colour stock to capture wartime scenes, a la the Helmswell CO.:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBwkYRGnd0s
No Vengeances, Danny, sorry! But an even rarer RAF steed at 19mins in, also an ex-French order bought by the UK Purchasing Commission. Variously ID'd as a Curtiss 75 Mohawk and a P36. Were they one and the same?
Ricardian, thanks for the SEAC News link. Very avant garde! If you'll excuse me I'll just go outside for a moment. I'm feeling just a little bit queasy...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vwufzLrRPI
As usual, I've spent far too long on YouTube! Following link to link I stumbled on this; RAF in Canada and Burma, and all in colour! I would guess that an RAF (RCAF?) cine enthusiast was using his rare colour stock to capture wartime scenes, a la the Helmswell CO.:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBwkYRGnd0s
No Vengeances, Danny, sorry! But an even rarer RAF steed at 19mins in, also an ex-French order bought by the UK Purchasing Commission. Variously ID'd as a Curtiss 75 Mohawk and a P36. Were they one and the same?
Ricardian, thanks for the SEAC News link. Very avant garde! If you'll excuse me I'll just go outside for a moment. I'm feeling just a little bit queasy...
F-E-D,if I`m not mistaken that is MAcr/F/sgt C*&^%£ll;had one early E-types on 230 at Odious in `67..maybe he sold the wreck for scrap...
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Fareastdriver ... did it buff out? 
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BB,
If you're hankering for a brief sight and sound of a Twin Pin, have a look on the Tube of U under "Twin Pioneer at Wedderburn".
This was a first flight after a bit of work had been done on her.
While she's doing nothing spectacular on that, the sound of those Alvis engines alone does it for me.
If you're hankering for a brief sight and sound of a Twin Pin, have a look on the Tube of U under "Twin Pioneer at Wedderburn".
This was a first flight after a bit of work had been done on her.
While she's doing nothing spectacular on that, the sound of those Alvis engines alone does it for me.