Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
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Been studying the pics you put in: in the first one, far right, there is some thing which seems to have two 'ears' sitting in a sort of chair. Any idea ?
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Well, yes it does.
But then I thought.. What could be its intended purpose?
Then the penny dropped.
Brewing hooch for the club, of course.
I mean, you can't waste all those potato peelings, et cetera, can you?
But then I thought.. What could be its intended purpose?
Then the penny dropped.
Brewing hooch for the club, of course.
I mean, you can't waste all those potato peelings, et cetera, can you?
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One for the bullock-track !
Stanwell,
Truth is stranger than fiction:
In India during the war (no shipping space for Gordon's etc), the demand was met by Carew's (some relation to 'Mad Carew' ?), who for Rs65 would supply a four-gallon blue pot amphora of their home brew. (And you got Rs4 back on the 'empty' !)
So, for net Rs61 (£4/12/0 equivalent then), a Mess got 4x6x32 tots # (at 'six-out') @ 4 annas a tot, totals Rs192, a clear profit of Rs131 (£8/3/9). As everybody drank the stuff (in a "Collins" or some other long drink, for it was poisonous neat) the Mess got rich quick. (multiply by 60 for today's prices). EDIT: (or 120 dahn-under).
# Chota Peg (single)
, Burra Peg 
(double).
Danny.
Truth is stranger than fiction:
In India during the war (no shipping space for Gordon's etc), the demand was met by Carew's (some relation to 'Mad Carew' ?), who for Rs65 would supply a four-gallon blue pot amphora of their home brew. (And you got Rs4 back on the 'empty' !)
So, for net Rs61 (£4/12/0 equivalent then), a Mess got 4x6x32 tots # (at 'six-out') @ 4 annas a tot, totals Rs192, a clear profit of Rs131 (£8/3/9). As everybody drank the stuff (in a "Collins" or some other long drink, for it was poisonous neat) the Mess got rich quick. (multiply by 60 for today's prices). EDIT: (or 120 dahn-under).
# Chota Peg (single)
, Burra Peg (double).Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 16th Mar 2016 at 02:30. Reason: Addn.
My uncle served in the Western Desert and remembered the four-gallon petrol tins, not least because they leaked. One of his company's three-ton Bedford QLs went up in smoke when said leak trickled through the floor and onto the exhaust which was mounted amidships. He and his comrades considered the German pressed-steel container far superior and indeed the Jerry-Can is still around today.
Danny, your whisky measures recall my father's evening greeting on arriving from Poona airfield 70 years ago ... Burra-peg jeldi karo! Still useful today
Danny, your whisky measures recall my father's evening greeting on arriving from Poona airfield 70 years ago ... Burra-peg jeldi karo! Still useful today
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Geriaviator,
For the benefit of the uninitiated: "Make (or 'do') quickly !"
Thanks for rescuing this our Thread from the Slough of Despond over the page,
Danny.
...jeldi karo!...
Thanks for rescuing this our Thread from the Slough of Despond over the page,
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 17th Mar 2016 at 14:00. Reason: Delete Stutter
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Bolo-ing the jolly old Lingo
FantomZorbin,
Note karo (make, do), ao (come), jao (go), lao (bring or carry). All in daily use, and as Colonel John Masters # scathingly noted, we only learned the imperative case of all the verbs !
(# "Bhowani Junction", "Bugles and a Tiger").
That is all a Herrenvolk needs.
Danny.
Note karo (make, do), ao (come), jao (go), lao (bring or carry). All in daily use, and as Colonel John Masters # scathingly noted, we only learned the imperative case of all the verbs !
(# "Bhowani Junction", "Bugles and a Tiger").
That is all a Herrenvolk needs.
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 17th Mar 2016 at 19:02. Reason: Remove forward slash which has crept in the title ! NO CAN DO !
Danny,
I never served in India (did a few trips there with the Herc) but I thought John Master's books gave a very full flavour of what it might have been like. Did they ?
I never served in India (did a few trips there with the Herc) but I thought John Master's books gave a very full flavour of what it might have been like. Did they ?
Last edited by ancientaviator62; 18th Mar 2016 at 09:39. Reason: spelling
This was linked in a post on another thread; delighted that the morbid outcome didn't apply to Dad
"When a Beau goes in"
When a Beau goes in,
Into the drink,
It makes you think,
Because, you see, they always sink
But nobody says "Poor lad"
Or goes about looking sad
Because, you see, it's war,
It's the unalterable law.
Although it's perfectly certain
The pilot's gone for a Burton
And the observer too
It's nothing to do with you
And if they both should go
To a land where falls no rain nor hail nor driven snow —
Here, there, or anywhere,
Do you suppose they care?
You shouldn't cry
Or say a prayer or sigh.
In the cold sea, in the dark
It isn't a lark
But it isn't Original Sin —
It's just a Beau going in.
"When a Beau goes in"
When a Beau goes in,
Into the drink,
It makes you think,
Because, you see, they always sink
But nobody says "Poor lad"
Or goes about looking sad
Because, you see, it's war,
It's the unalterable law.
Although it's perfectly certain
The pilot's gone for a Burton
And the observer too
It's nothing to do with you
And if they both should go
To a land where falls no rain nor hail nor driven snow —
Here, there, or anywhere,
Do you suppose they care?
You shouldn't cry
Or say a prayer or sigh.
In the cold sea, in the dark
It isn't a lark
But it isn't Original Sin —
It's just a Beau going in.
AA62, I am a great JM fan too. And cross referencing to Danny's Malabar story, there was a lady involved there too, mother of, when he grew up, a prominent General
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John,
Thanks - I'll add it to my collection !
A good example of the black "gallows humour" which characterised the RAF in WWII. "You die if you worry, you die if you don't - so why worry at all ?". There was no point in grieving over a lost friend, you just had to carry on and ignore it:
"The dead, they will not rise,
So you'd better dry your eyes,
And come and marry me, Mary Jane !"
(Kipling ??)
Danny
Thanks - I'll add it to my collection !
A good example of the black "gallows humour" which characterised the RAF in WWII. "You die if you worry, you die if you don't - so why worry at all ?". There was no point in grieving over a lost friend, you just had to carry on and ignore it:
"The dead, they will not rise,
So you'd better dry your eyes,
And come and marry me, Mary Jane !"
(Kipling ??)
Danny
Last edited by Danny42C; 18th Mar 2016 at 14:04. Reason: Put in the rest of it !
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ancientaviator, your:
I left eighteen months before the end of the Raj, and have never gone back, but could see the traces of its past glory. Neither have I read any of Master's books - but a lot of Kipling. Offhand, I would say that Hollywood did a reasonably good job, bearing in mind that you simply cannot recreate how things were almost seventy years ago. I have to say that my only contact with John Master's work was in seeing the film "Bhowani Junction" a long time ago, but I remember it as a highly dramatic portrayal of the problems of the Anglo-Indian community in the last days of our imperial history there.
Basically, we used to say (in my time): "God made the Indian; the British 'Tommy' made the Anglo-Indian". From the start, the lot of the Anglo-Indian Community was not a happy one. The Indians generally despised them (as being outside the caste system, they could never fit in to Indian society). And we (who had brought them into being) wanted nothing to do with them. They were (socially) in a permanent "Nomansland". In practice: a British expatriate businessman might have a highly personable and efficient Anglo-Indian secretary - but he would never socialise with - still less marry her. I believe that in the Dutch and Portuguese colonial empires (I don't know about the French), things were different, there they were treated as equals.
Another class of "lesser breeds" did not shun them - our Other Ranks. The (almost exclusively Anglo-Indian) Railway Institutes, which were their social clubs in most larger towns, made them welcome. Many more marriages resulted; an Anglo-Indian girl with a British husband counted herself lucky indeed, she had escaped the "ghetto" and was now as British as he, and would go back to Britain with him.
Two organisations recruited them: Government reserved employment on the railways solely to them; and the Christian churches (predominently the RCs) welcomed them (together with Hindu "Untouchables") into their Faiths. As the original marriage always had the colonial father, they nearly all bear British or Portuguese surnames.
Things came to a head with Indepedence in '47. They had to decide what to do. As I've said in an old Post: "Their hearts said 'Britain', but their heads had to say 'India' ". And so it has been. In the Indian Air Force, they have done very well, many reaching star rank. I would not think that they would be likely to succeed to that extent in the more traditional Indian Army or Navy.
Wiki says: "One Indian novelist (Khushwant Singh) has remarked that while Kipling understood India, John Masters understood Indians [5]", in a very full biographical entry on Masters). I would put it another way round: you need a good working knowledge of India to fully appreciate Kipling. Masters himself was almost a parody of the ideal "Sahib", a gallant Ghurka officer, the last in a line of a British military family with roots in India and who would make their careers there.
They don't make 'em any more.
Danny.
...I never served in India (did a few trips there with the Herc) but I thought John Master's books gave a very full flavour of what it might have been like. Did they ?...
Basically, we used to say (in my time): "God made the Indian; the British 'Tommy' made the Anglo-Indian". From the start, the lot of the Anglo-Indian Community was not a happy one. The Indians generally despised them (as being outside the caste system, they could never fit in to Indian society). And we (who had brought them into being) wanted nothing to do with them. They were (socially) in a permanent "Nomansland". In practice: a British expatriate businessman might have a highly personable and efficient Anglo-Indian secretary - but he would never socialise with - still less marry her. I believe that in the Dutch and Portuguese colonial empires (I don't know about the French), things were different, there they were treated as equals.
Another class of "lesser breeds" did not shun them - our Other Ranks. The (almost exclusively Anglo-Indian) Railway Institutes, which were their social clubs in most larger towns, made them welcome. Many more marriages resulted; an Anglo-Indian girl with a British husband counted herself lucky indeed, she had escaped the "ghetto" and was now as British as he, and would go back to Britain with him.
Two organisations recruited them: Government reserved employment on the railways solely to them; and the Christian churches (predominently the RCs) welcomed them (together with Hindu "Untouchables") into their Faiths. As the original marriage always had the colonial father, they nearly all bear British or Portuguese surnames.
Things came to a head with Indepedence in '47. They had to decide what to do. As I've said in an old Post: "Their hearts said 'Britain', but their heads had to say 'India' ". And so it has been. In the Indian Air Force, they have done very well, many reaching star rank. I would not think that they would be likely to succeed to that extent in the more traditional Indian Army or Navy.
Wiki says: "One Indian novelist (Khushwant Singh) has remarked that while Kipling understood India, John Masters understood Indians [5]", in a very full biographical entry on Masters). I would put it another way round: you need a good working knowledge of India to fully appreciate Kipling. Masters himself was almost a parody of the ideal "Sahib", a gallant Ghurka officer, the last in a line of a British military family with roots in India and who would make their careers there.
They don't make 'em any more.
Danny.
Danny,
many thanks for your usual erudite reply. I thought the film 'Bhowani Junction' (Deborah Kerr ?) was like most of their ilk not totally true to the spirit of the book.
many thanks for your usual erudite reply. I thought the film 'Bhowani Junction' (Deborah Kerr ?) was like most of their ilk not totally true to the spirit of the book.
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Haven't read any of John Masters' fiction but I have read (and strongly recommend) his two volumes of autobiography Bugles and a Tiger and The Road Past Mandalay. Gripping accounts of his military service (primarily in the Gurkhas then part of the Indian Army) and of the exploits of the Chindits.
His biography (John Master: A Regimented Life by John Clay) is also an interesting read but for some unaccountable reason is hard to find and quite expensive when you do.
His biography (John Master: A Regimented Life by John Clay) is also an interesting read but for some unaccountable reason is hard to find and quite expensive when you do.
I discovered John Master's novels when browsing in the station library at RAF Changi in 1968. I loved his evocation of India and particularly his love and high regard for the Gurkhas with whom he had the privilege to serve. Max Hastings book 'Warriors' has pen portraits of famous military men over the ages including Masters and Guy Gibson and a common thread seems to have been that many fearless fighting men were loathed by their colleagues.
In 'Road past Mandalay' Masters refers to his affair with another officer's wife, albeit separated, while attending staff college at Quetta. For advice in what to do he went to his general, who picked up his hat, touched the red band around it and said,' A good marriage is worth far more than this! '. That same sentiment was why I did not continue with what should have been ( certainly when I was at nav' School ) a promising career in the RAF - I would always have put my wife and her needs ahead of the service. Despite marrying at 21 & 18 respectively, we will celebrate our Golden next year. Mind you, to counter that, I have loads of RAF mates who enjoyed a full career to 55 and they will also be celebrating next year.
It wasn't until I read 'Warriors' that I found the identity of Masters' step-sons, one of whom made general and by coincidence had lived in my village a few years before we moved here. His, Masters, description of his time as a Chindit, where as a substantive Major he became Brigade Commander, is a highlight of his autobiographies.
In 'Road past Mandalay' Masters refers to his affair with another officer's wife, albeit separated, while attending staff college at Quetta. For advice in what to do he went to his general, who picked up his hat, touched the red band around it and said,' A good marriage is worth far more than this! '. That same sentiment was why I did not continue with what should have been ( certainly when I was at nav' School ) a promising career in the RAF - I would always have put my wife and her needs ahead of the service. Despite marrying at 21 & 18 respectively, we will celebrate our Golden next year. Mind you, to counter that, I have loads of RAF mates who enjoyed a full career to 55 and they will also be celebrating next year.
It wasn't until I read 'Warriors' that I found the identity of Masters' step-sons, one of whom made general and by coincidence had lived in my village a few years before we moved here. His, Masters, description of his time as a Chindit, where as a substantive Major he became Brigade Commander, is a highlight of his autobiographies.
Last edited by Brian 48nav; 18th Mar 2016 at 21:56. Reason: grammar and addition
JENKINS,
thank you for the correction.
thank you for the correction.
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Handsome Men are slightly sunburnt.
Walter (your #8837),
Brings to mind, in these days when we are exhorted to avoid baring our tender hides to the Mediterranean sun for fear of melanoma, that Dr. LeFanu (in the D.Tel.) once reflected that one his patients, who'd been "chasing Rommel all over the Libyan desert (stripped to the waist) for a couple of years " displayed no ill-effects in consequence even decades later.
The same is true of us in India/Burma. My theory is that we were not lying out on sun loungers all day, but constantly presenting different areas of skin to the sun as we moved about. What do you think?
Danny.
...Here are some of the pics taken 75 years ago in Libya by Reuben (Reub) Giles DFC..
The same is true of us in India/Burma. My theory is that we were not lying out on sun loungers all day, but constantly presenting different areas of skin to the sun as we moved about. What do you think?
Danny.
Danny
Re Melanoma
After two years in Africa and two years in the Far East including a year in Gan where the standard work 'dress' was no shirt. I'm into my eighties with no signs (yet) of Melanoma.
After all that sun as below.
Re Melanoma
After two years in Africa and two years in the Far East including a year in Gan where the standard work 'dress' was no shirt. I'm into my eighties with no signs (yet) of Melanoma.
After all that sun as below.