Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
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Chugalug,
I agree, you can never override the Medics (as I know to my cost), and I'm sure that 'Gus' would have had to jump through all their hoops before they gave him his A1G1 (what was 'Z' all about ?, I know I should know, but it's all gone).
But then, once he's got his 'Cat', they couldn't care less what he flew - that was his problem - or rather that of the Authorising Officer, which I imagine would have been him (would you sign it, knowing what might happen, and that you might be signing the man's death warrant, and at the subsequent BOI, he'd probably be beyond reach of Court Martial, but you'd be very much alive in the hot seat ?)
I hardly dare to disagree with my revered Mentor, but, with respect, the 'solo' is the issue here. In Bader's day there were no dual Hurricanes or Spitfires (the T-IX curiosity is post- war). Every budding Prune had to read the book, jump in and fly - there was no option. Now, after the Hunter T7 came in, I doubt if anyone jumped straight into a s/seater without some conversion training. Could be wrong, of course (often am, is there a Hunter man in the house ?)
There's no getting away from it, it was an appalling risk - but then, 'Gus' came from a generation well accustomed to appalling risks. Anyway, "all's well that ended well". We shall not see his like again, I fear....D.
MPN11,
Everything you tell me increases my deep-rooted horror of Area Radar and all its works (all right, all right, I know someone has to do it, but please, dear Lord, not me !) You'll remember that at Leeming, we were only troubled by Teesside, every couple of hours, with a timid request: could the LHR shuttle go direct to Pole Hill, or must it dog-leg North to 'Point Alpha' (somewhere around Bowes, as I recall). And the same when it came back. If we were absolutely quiet (and there were such times), we would generously say "Clear Direct"!, saving British Midland no end of fuel.
I should have been tempted to be a PITA with your VVIP when you got him back, and vectored him round East Anglia widdershins a couple of times to show him who's Boss !...D.
Regards to you both,
Danny.
I agree, you can never override the Medics (as I know to my cost), and I'm sure that 'Gus' would have had to jump through all their hoops before they gave him his A1G1 (what was 'Z' all about ?, I know I should know, but it's all gone).
But then, once he's got his 'Cat', they couldn't care less what he flew - that was his problem - or rather that of the Authorising Officer, which I imagine would have been him (would you sign it, knowing what might happen, and that you might be signing the man's death warrant, and at the subsequent BOI, he'd probably be beyond reach of Court Martial, but you'd be very much alive in the hot seat ?)
I hardly dare to disagree with my revered Mentor, but, with respect, the 'solo' is the issue here. In Bader's day there were no dual Hurricanes or Spitfires (the T-IX curiosity is post- war). Every budding Prune had to read the book, jump in and fly - there was no option. Now, after the Hunter T7 came in, I doubt if anyone jumped straight into a s/seater without some conversion training. Could be wrong, of course (often am, is there a Hunter man in the house ?)
There's no getting away from it, it was an appalling risk - but then, 'Gus' came from a generation well accustomed to appalling risks. Anyway, "all's well that ended well". We shall not see his like again, I fear....D.
MPN11,
Everything you tell me increases my deep-rooted horror of Area Radar and all its works (all right, all right, I know someone has to do it, but please, dear Lord, not me !) You'll remember that at Leeming, we were only troubled by Teesside, every couple of hours, with a timid request: could the LHR shuttle go direct to Pole Hill, or must it dog-leg North to 'Point Alpha' (somewhere around Bowes, as I recall). And the same when it came back. If we were absolutely quiet (and there were such times), we would generously say "Clear Direct"!, saving British Midland no end of fuel.
I should have been tempted to be a PITA with your VVIP when you got him back, and vectored him round East Anglia widdershins a couple of times to show him who's Boss !...D.
Regards to you both,
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 10th Sep 2013 at 17:07.
Cleanliness is next to ...
Hello again folks ... have been busy making most of this wonderful summer, until poor Mrs G. made a very heavy landing and damaged both wing spars, so I'm OC kitchen etc. until plaster is removed. Already the days are shortening so I'll be back on keyboard hopefully.
Danny, your stories have filled every available hour. The diesel drum was another gem as I once discovered the result of diesel on tarmac, going off-road fortunately on four wheels rather than two.
It recalled the day at Binbrook in 1950 when Dad arrived home from work with a milk bottle containing a clear liquid. Wartime habits died hard, and worn-out scraps of soap were saved until they part filled a bowl, so they could be boiled up together into a slimy blob which could be scooped out for washing the dishes. Did anyone ever try Lifebuoy flavour corn flakes?
"Forget the soap", said Dad. "This stuff is called Teepol and it's issued for washing the Lincolns. You need only a spoonful in a bucket". Mother did not believe him and poured in a cupful, whereupon the suds rolled out from the sink in a foamy carpet. Mum used it thenceforth and always asserted that Fairy Liquid wasn't a patch on the RAF issue.
Teepol was one of the first detergents. Decades later, I was helping a friend by driving a street sweeper when I was tasked with an oil spill resulting from an accident. The oil had been covered with cement, which we swept up, then into the spray tank went half a drum of Teepol, the first time I had seen the product since Binbrook. It made a fine job of the road surface, though cleaning the oil, cement and soapy mix from the tank took me an hour with a power washer. I'm glad to say Teepol is still in business and in ownership of the same family.
Best wishes everyone, and please keep 'em coming, Danny!
Danny, your stories have filled every available hour. The diesel drum was another gem as I once discovered the result of diesel on tarmac, going off-road fortunately on four wheels rather than two.
It recalled the day at Binbrook in 1950 when Dad arrived home from work with a milk bottle containing a clear liquid. Wartime habits died hard, and worn-out scraps of soap were saved until they part filled a bowl, so they could be boiled up together into a slimy blob which could be scooped out for washing the dishes. Did anyone ever try Lifebuoy flavour corn flakes?
"Forget the soap", said Dad. "This stuff is called Teepol and it's issued for washing the Lincolns. You need only a spoonful in a bucket". Mother did not believe him and poured in a cupful, whereupon the suds rolled out from the sink in a foamy carpet. Mum used it thenceforth and always asserted that Fairy Liquid wasn't a patch on the RAF issue.
Teepol was one of the first detergents. Decades later, I was helping a friend by driving a street sweeper when I was tasked with an oil spill resulting from an accident. The oil had been covered with cement, which we swept up, then into the spray tank went half a drum of Teepol, the first time I had seen the product since Binbrook. It made a fine job of the road surface, though cleaning the oil, cement and soapy mix from the tank took me an hour with a power washer. I'm glad to say Teepol is still in business and in ownership of the same family.
Best wishes everyone, and please keep 'em coming, Danny!
No mentor I, Danny, revered or otherwise, and certainly no expert on the Hunter, single or dual, so I merely took it from your post that the T7 was not yet in service when Gus went for a spin in the F6. Sorry if I misunderstood, as obviously if it was available albeit not actually at Strubby, then he should have been checked out on the T7. If not, then presumably the Hurricane/Spitfire system still pertained for everyone new to type, just as it did for you.
As to authorisation, would he be cleared to self authorise? More likely some S.O. would have had that very dubious honour, for if the unthinkable happened no matter the cause, he would be forever damned as the man who lost the Service one of its heroes. Much biting of nails to the quick as Gus did his detail...
For all that, your point is well made, for of all the dangers and odds that he had survived, this one was a doddle. One of life's survivors, and one of its true gentlemen. RIP.
Geriaviator, welcome back and sorry to hear of Mrs G's troubles, not the least of which being perhaps that you now bestride her kitchen like a colossus! Your mention of Teepol immediately recalled another product, Gunk! An employee of HAEC always met our Hastings on arrival at Kai Tak with a bucket full and a brush with which he vigorously applied it to the lowered flaps, grimy from the engine emissions. It was the only place where next morning one started up such a clean machine, other than the Mk4's of Far East Comm Squadron which being the VIP version permanently gleamed of course.
That "Barry Scott", forever proclaiming the effects of Cillit Bang would be far more convincing if he used that latter aircraft than the weird purple FJ trainer that he uses as a prop on tele (an ex Yugoslav one, I believe).
As to authorisation, would he be cleared to self authorise? More likely some S.O. would have had that very dubious honour, for if the unthinkable happened no matter the cause, he would be forever damned as the man who lost the Service one of its heroes. Much biting of nails to the quick as Gus did his detail...
For all that, your point is well made, for of all the dangers and odds that he had survived, this one was a doddle. One of life's survivors, and one of its true gentlemen. RIP.
Geriaviator, welcome back and sorry to hear of Mrs G's troubles, not the least of which being perhaps that you now bestride her kitchen like a colossus! Your mention of Teepol immediately recalled another product, Gunk! An employee of HAEC always met our Hastings on arrival at Kai Tak with a bucket full and a brush with which he vigorously applied it to the lowered flaps, grimy from the engine emissions. It was the only place where next morning one started up such a clean machine, other than the Mk4's of Far East Comm Squadron which being the VIP version permanently gleamed of course.
That "Barry Scott", forever proclaiming the effects of Cillit Bang would be far more convincing if he used that latter aircraft than the weird purple FJ trainer that he uses as a prop on tele (an ex Yugoslav one, I believe).
Last edited by Chugalug2; 10th Sep 2013 at 20:41.
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I should have been tempted to be a PITA with your VVIP when you got him back, and vectored him round East Anglia widdershins a couple of times to show him who's Boss !...D.
As has been heard in the Ops Room on more than one occasion...
This is Air Traffic Control, not Air Traffic Negotiation!!
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I suspect the authorisation of Gus's flight would have been made by one of the QFIs after briefing him. In those days that's the way it was done. As a very junior Fg.Off QFI I authorised several senior officers to risk life and limb in a Vampire having first given them dual in a Meteor.
All you air traffikers would love to work in China. There, air traffic is draconian. Should they point you at a mountain there is a protracted discussion before they will let you steer away from impending disaster. Indefinite holds when short of fuel are common. Violations can be filed against pilots for all sorts of reasons. Early/late ETAs. 0.25 degree glidepath error, Heavy? Landing. The list goes on. However, there are some benefits inasmuch that an ATC clearance is paramount.
I had to do photographic flight over Shenzhen. Some ancient buildings were just about to be demolished to make way for the latest downtown high-rise. We had rigged our helicopter, an S76, so that the photographer had a clear shot through a removed starboard window and I had an ancient map that showed the building's location.
As I approached the area it was obvious that they were in the middle of an existing forest of high-rises and the shots taken above them were going t be pretty poor. I discussed it with our Chinese chief pilot who had come along for the ride. He got on the radio and then there was a long conversation with the controller.
“You’re cleared down to thirty metres.” My chief pilot said.
Thirty metres is just over one hundred feet. There I was, approaching a city resembling Manhattan and I was cleared low level. The devils horns came out and there then followed a helicopter version of Danny’s dive bombing manoeuvre.
Forty five minutes of glorious, legalised, hooliganism. All my lights were so one could see oneself approaching a glass sided office tower at about the tenth floor level. Forty knots was more than enough to turn at mall intersections, I didn’t try the narrower streets because of cables. We managed to get some good photographs of the buildings as well.
Nobody would have complained. Civilian helicopters are not widely known there so it would be assumed by any spectators that it was military or police; and one does not complain about them.
Our heliport was within the terminal zone of an international airport. To ease our passage within this area it was ‘believed’ that the company used to take Air Traffic Control to a massive slap-up banquet once a year. That is probably why our chief pilot managed to fix it
I had to do photographic flight over Shenzhen. Some ancient buildings were just about to be demolished to make way for the latest downtown high-rise. We had rigged our helicopter, an S76, so that the photographer had a clear shot through a removed starboard window and I had an ancient map that showed the building's location.
As I approached the area it was obvious that they were in the middle of an existing forest of high-rises and the shots taken above them were going t be pretty poor. I discussed it with our Chinese chief pilot who had come along for the ride. He got on the radio and then there was a long conversation with the controller.
“You’re cleared down to thirty metres.” My chief pilot said.
Thirty metres is just over one hundred feet. There I was, approaching a city resembling Manhattan and I was cleared low level. The devils horns came out and there then followed a helicopter version of Danny’s dive bombing manoeuvre.
Forty five minutes of glorious, legalised, hooliganism. All my lights were so one could see oneself approaching a glass sided office tower at about the tenth floor level. Forty knots was more than enough to turn at mall intersections, I didn’t try the narrower streets because of cables. We managed to get some good photographs of the buildings as well.
Nobody would have complained. Civilian helicopters are not widely known there so it would be assumed by any spectators that it was military or police; and one does not complain about them.
Our heliport was within the terminal zone of an international airport. To ease our passage within this area it was ‘believed’ that the company used to take Air Traffic Control to a massive slap-up banquet once a year. That is probably why our chief pilot managed to fix it
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 11th Sep 2013 at 09:02.
Danny:-
PPRuNe as ever has the answer, Danny. Dredged from the depths of its bowels from nearly 7 years ago, the answer to the self same question is "zone":-
Medical Question [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums
It was the Z1 in your medical category all those years ago that entitled you to the Cooks Tour of India which you have so vividly described for us.
26er, of course you are right, no SO would have gone out on such a limb when there was an abundance of JOs available to sign authorisations. I can only wonder at the sang-froid of my own instructors who made their mark so that I could once again go forth into the wide blue yonder.
Fareastdriver, ATC elsewhere could be similarly assuaged with gifts and treats. Just before Christmas each year, Dan-Air Operations would visit Maastricht Control on a liaison visit. The liaison would be facilitated by a crate or two of Johnny Walker Black Label. Maastricht were well aware of the saving in time and fuel that direct routings enabled. The code word for such a request from us was settled on as "Chugalug" within the initial call. As a result you might be cleared Koksy to Frankfurt VOR direct, for example. A Speedbird once queried the use of the word Chugalug by Maastricht in their response to us. There was a pause followed by, "I'm sorry Speedbird but I am not allowed to say". We of course kept schtum...
A1G1 (what was 'Z' all about ?, I know I should know, but it's all gone).
Medical Question [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums
It was the Z1 in your medical category all those years ago that entitled you to the Cooks Tour of India which you have so vividly described for us.
26er, of course you are right, no SO would have gone out on such a limb when there was an abundance of JOs available to sign authorisations. I can only wonder at the sang-froid of my own instructors who made their mark so that I could once again go forth into the wide blue yonder.
Fareastdriver, ATC elsewhere could be similarly assuaged with gifts and treats. Just before Christmas each year, Dan-Air Operations would visit Maastricht Control on a liaison visit. The liaison would be facilitated by a crate or two of Johnny Walker Black Label. Maastricht were well aware of the saving in time and fuel that direct routings enabled. The code word for such a request from us was settled on as "Chugalug" within the initial call. As a result you might be cleared Koksy to Frankfurt VOR direct, for example. A Speedbird once queried the use of the word Chugalug by Maastricht in their response to us. There was a pause followed by, "I'm sorry Speedbird but I am not allowed to say". We of course kept schtum...
Last edited by Chugalug2; 11th Sep 2013 at 09:48.
Sometimes it is more direct.
I was ferrying an AS332L1 down from Wenzhou to Shenzhen with a lunch and refuelling stop at Xiamen. After lunch we confirmed the flight plan, went out to the aircraft and called for start clearance.
"Refused; there is a delay"
After 20 minutes or so we got out and went up to ATC to see what the reason was. There was a PLA air force exercise at Shantou, which was on our route, with a prohibition below 5,000 metres, which affected us.
I was not particularly worried. I was in no hurry and the PLA always stopped at five o'clock so we disappeared off for some more coffee. Come five o'clock and we waited, and waited. At six it was looking as if we were going to have to night stop which suited me fine; I was looking forward to a night on the razamataz in Xiamen but my co-pilot and engineer wanted to get home.
We had discussed with ATC any other possibilities but they had not been forthcoming. Meanwhile my co-pilot had sent our engineer off with a wad of money. He returned bearing a case of Coca Cola and a carton of Marlborough cigarettes and starting handing them around the tower like Father Christmas.
Instantly the attitude changed and we were shown a 'special route' that avoided Shantou altogether.
Twenty minutes later we were on our way
I was ferrying an AS332L1 down from Wenzhou to Shenzhen with a lunch and refuelling stop at Xiamen. After lunch we confirmed the flight plan, went out to the aircraft and called for start clearance.
"Refused; there is a delay"
After 20 minutes or so we got out and went up to ATC to see what the reason was. There was a PLA air force exercise at Shantou, which was on our route, with a prohibition below 5,000 metres, which affected us.
I was not particularly worried. I was in no hurry and the PLA always stopped at five o'clock so we disappeared off for some more coffee. Come five o'clock and we waited, and waited. At six it was looking as if we were going to have to night stop which suited me fine; I was looking forward to a night on the razamataz in Xiamen but my co-pilot and engineer wanted to get home.
We had discussed with ATC any other possibilities but they had not been forthcoming. Meanwhile my co-pilot had sent our engineer off with a wad of money. He returned bearing a case of Coca Cola and a carton of Marlborough cigarettes and starting handing them around the tower like Father Christmas.
Instantly the attitude changed and we were shown a 'special route' that avoided Shantou altogether.
Twenty minutes later we were on our way
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 11th Sep 2013 at 10:37.
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I'm sure a pilot bought me a beer once. Or was it a Navigator? Or was it a dream? 
Eastern Radar (sorry again, Danny) used to assist Air Anglia on their regular F-27 runs between Norwich and Amsterdam through the 'open' FIR which, in those days, was awash with Mil traffic. FL110/FL120 rings a bell. Anyway, the Mildenhall CAC VHF frequency was virtually unused, so we let them use that … and the Allocator would monitor it H24, poised to allocate a normal console to use it and provide service.
This obviously made life much easier for the AA pilots, provided expeditious routing and significantly enhanced safety. Good for them, and good for us as the AA was now 'known traffic' and under our control. At the same time, we made their Ops Manager [or whatever he was] an Honorary Mess Member, to facilitate liaison.
in return, our ATCOs were given a 90% fare discount on those flights. And other gifts were dotted around too - I still have my Air Anglia Zippo lighter
Eastern Radar (sorry again, Danny) used to assist Air Anglia on their regular F-27 runs between Norwich and Amsterdam through the 'open' FIR which, in those days, was awash with Mil traffic. FL110/FL120 rings a bell. Anyway, the Mildenhall CAC VHF frequency was virtually unused, so we let them use that … and the Allocator would monitor it H24, poised to allocate a normal console to use it and provide service.
This obviously made life much easier for the AA pilots, provided expeditious routing and significantly enhanced safety. Good for them, and good for us as the AA was now 'known traffic' and under our control. At the same time, we made their Ops Manager [or whatever he was] an Honorary Mess Member, to facilitate liaison.
in return, our ATCOs were given a 90% fare discount on those flights. And other gifts were dotted around too - I still have my Air Anglia Zippo lighter
Last edited by MPN11; 11th Sep 2013 at 11:32.
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As regards telephones, this recalls the old chestnut: chap rings his mate, crossed line, gets "Do you know who I am ? - this is Air Marshal Somebody-or-other !"...."Do you know who this is, Sir ?"...."No !"....."Thank God for that !"...(hurriedly hangs up)....D.
"CDS here. Can you tell me if Mrs.<name witheld> is on the <codeword> flight?" says a rather plummy voice.
The boys are having a laugh at my expense. I am about to tell the prankster to get his *rse in gear and get back to the Line right away, but a niggling little dicky bird tells me this is no prank.
"I'm afraid I can't give out that information on the phone, Sir!"
[I can see from our Ops board on the opposite wall that the CDS's wife is indeed listed among the VIPs]
"Damn! I've tried Ops, I've tried Air Movements and I thought that the Engineers might be more useful."
"What's the problem, Sir?"
"I'm expecting my wife on the flight, but I have things to do here and I don't want to waste time coming down to Northolt if she's not on it"
"Oh: Er, what time were you thinking of coming down, Sir?"
"19:30"
"Sir, if you came down at 19:30 you wouldn't be wasting your time."
"Splendid! I knew Engineering were the men to ask. Thank you very much, Sergeant. Click"
Two days later I am called to the Office.
"Did you receive a call from the CDS on Monday night, Sergeant Blacksheep?"
"Yes: why?"
"Well get yourself to the Bosses office two-six. He wants to see you. Now"
I turn up and his secretary announces me. "At least they're letting me keep my hat on" I think. The Boss is pleased. The CDS has sent a message to the effect that his engineers are the most resourceful and efficient personnel in the entire Royal Air Force and are to be appropriately congratulated.
32 "C" Flight's "B" shift retire to 32 Squadron bar for a beer.
On the Boss.
The CDS said so.
The CDS is not just a gentleman, he's a truly great leader of men.
Blacksheep - You, Sir, are a smooth-talking bar-steward!
Interesting as to whether that was FM Carver, CDS to Oct 76 or MRAF Humphrey thereafter, especially vis a vis .
"The CDS has sent a message to the effect that his [the Boss's] engineers are the most resourceful and efficient personnel in the entire Royal Air Force and are to be appropriately congratulated."
Jack
PS "Mrs"!?
Interesting as to whether that was FM Carver, CDS to Oct 76 or MRAF Humphrey thereafter, especially vis a vis .
"The CDS has sent a message to the effect that his [the Boss's] engineers are the most resourceful and efficient personnel in the entire Royal Air Force and are to be appropriately congratulated."
Jack
PS "Mrs"!?
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Nice tale, and nice to hear Gentlemen existed in 76.
I do remember my farewell interview with my AOC on retirement/redundancy in 93, where he acknowledged I had drawn some very short straws on many of my Bosses over the years (which had influenced my decision to go). I refrained from mentioning he was also a prime mover!!
But equally, I remember some great ones who treated people like people, instead of 'office equipment'. Cyclops Brown, Phil Lagesen, Win Harris, Big John Laycock, Tony Davies (Vulcan one), Barry Nunn, C4, Dink Lemon ... a few bright stars shining through a dismal overcast.
I do remember my farewell interview with my AOC on retirement/redundancy in 93, where he acknowledged I had drawn some very short straws on many of my Bosses over the years (which had influenced my decision to go). I refrained from mentioning he was also a prime mover!!
But equally, I remember some great ones who treated people like people, instead of 'office equipment'. Cyclops Brown, Phil Lagesen, Win Harris, Big John Laycock, Tony Davies (Vulcan one), Barry Nunn, C4, Dink Lemon ... a few bright stars shining through a dismal overcast.
Last edited by MPN11; 11th Sep 2013 at 14:37.
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Geriaviator,
May we welcome you back from what must have been an anxious time, and we hope Mrs G. will soon be restored to full health, and you demoted to default position as 2 i/c Kitchen !
I was a supernumerary at Binbrook from 13.10.49 to 23.1.50, so must have been there at the same time as you and your Dad, but our paths would have been unlikely to have crossed. I well remember "Teepol", it came in handy for washing pretty well everything on the airfield, but mainly cars. As your Dad said, a little went a very long way.
I don't remember it ever coming on the retail market outside, but there were all sorts of patent cleaners: "Gunk" cleaned your engine up and "Swarfega" cleaned you up afterwards.
I'm glad my tales have lightened your load somewhat, and there's plenty more where they came from. Might get another away tomorrow....D
Chugalug,
I seem to have a genius for not making myself clear ! I know that Manby did not have a Hunter T7, and I think that they were only introduced much later. If any were in service at that time (which I doubt), they would obviously go to a Conversion Unit somewhere (for surely there must have been one when they came in); 'Gus' would certainly have gone there first to be checked
out.
All in all, I think you're right: the old Hurricane/Spitfire system still held sway (and a long way after that, offhand I can't think of a dual version of any of the big piston singles that came in at the end).
As to self-authorisation, I would certainly think that the Commandant of the College would be entitled to do so (after all, I could do it in my tiny little kingdom during the war). But here again, where is a Hunter pilot to give us the 'gen' ? There must be scores in earshot.
Barry Scott and 'Cillit Bang' are entirely unknown to me - had to Google 'em - clearly I don't get out enough these days ! ....D.
Cheers, Danny.
May we welcome you back from what must have been an anxious time, and we hope Mrs G. will soon be restored to full health, and you demoted to default position as 2 i/c Kitchen !
I was a supernumerary at Binbrook from 13.10.49 to 23.1.50, so must have been there at the same time as you and your Dad, but our paths would have been unlikely to have crossed. I well remember "Teepol", it came in handy for washing pretty well everything on the airfield, but mainly cars. As your Dad said, a little went a very long way.
I don't remember it ever coming on the retail market outside, but there were all sorts of patent cleaners: "Gunk" cleaned your engine up and "Swarfega" cleaned you up afterwards.
I'm glad my tales have lightened your load somewhat, and there's plenty more where they came from. Might get another away tomorrow....D
Chugalug,
I seem to have a genius for not making myself clear ! I know that Manby did not have a Hunter T7, and I think that they were only introduced much later. If any were in service at that time (which I doubt), they would obviously go to a Conversion Unit somewhere (for surely there must have been one when they came in); 'Gus' would certainly have gone there first to be checked
out.
All in all, I think you're right: the old Hurricane/Spitfire system still held sway (and a long way after that, offhand I can't think of a dual version of any of the big piston singles that came in at the end).
As to self-authorisation, I would certainly think that the Commandant of the College would be entitled to do so (after all, I could do it in my tiny little kingdom during the war). But here again, where is a Hunter pilot to give us the 'gen' ? There must be scores in earshot.
Barry Scott and 'Cillit Bang' are entirely unknown to me - had to Google 'em - clearly I don't get out enough these days ! ....D.
Cheers, Danny.
Teepol was one of the first detergents.
Not as good as foam fire extinguishant in the VIP loos - with one chemical in the pan and the other in the cistern. When flushed, the foam generates as advertised in a most pleasing manner....
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Chugalug,
Be pleased to know that you fooled a youngster many moons ago.
One of the things that got my interest in aircraft going was the use of a suitable radio and I do recall hearing the "Chugalug" calls.
Being only lad of minor age then I always thought that it was some foreign word of greeting like "hello" or "good morning" in a native language.
Well I suppose I was almost right.
MPN11,
Border, Midland, Eastern. All bring back some memories to a young lad trying to figure out what some sayings meant. Did mange to get a few right but others were way out when I did find out what was the correct meaning.
Remember hearing some helo formation call "Calcutta, Calcutta, Go" to later find out it was a call for all lights out. Suitable touch of military humour I thought.
Be pleased to know that you fooled a youngster many moons ago.
One of the things that got my interest in aircraft going was the use of a suitable radio and I do recall hearing the "Chugalug" calls.
Being only lad of minor age then I always thought that it was some foreign word of greeting like "hello" or "good morning" in a native language.
Well I suppose I was almost right.
MPN11,
Border, Midland, Eastern. All bring back some memories to a young lad trying to figure out what some sayings meant. Did mange to get a few right but others were way out when I did find out what was the correct meaning.
Remember hearing some helo formation call "Calcutta, Calcutta, Go" to later find out it was a call for all lights out. Suitable touch of military humour I thought.
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BEagle ... I hope you weren't at Drayton when the bloody awful Mess finally closed. There were washing machines being hurled from the upper floors into that fishpond.
Or perhaps you were?
However, all too modern, and I'm partly to blame. Back to the days of sgt pilots, and silver training aircraft with yellow stripes. Hello danny42C
Or perhaps you were?
However, all too modern, and I'm partly to blame. Back to the days of sgt pilots, and silver training aircraft with yellow stripes. Hello danny42C
Last edited by MPN11; 11th Sep 2013 at 17:13.
No I wasn't. But it was a useful place to park one's car for free before flying off from London Airport for a couple of weeks in the sun!
Talking of "substances" given to other uses, I well remember one of the JP 2nd Line servicing teams circa 1975 finding a product called Hibitane. I think it was borrowed from Station Medical Centre as it had a very pleasing effect on seized/ corroded bolts. It was used for several months, then one day someone applied three drops into the urn in the Dominie servicing teams' crewroom. Now rumour had it that they had three days off, glued to the porcelain trumpets nearest their bed spaces. Our Warrant Officer had it banned from then on. And no, I was not involved, before I become suspect No1. As you all say Teepol was very useful, as was its brother Wadpol.
Smudge
Smudge
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Jack - Sir Andrew, shortly before his untimely passing from pneumonia. He stood us a round more than once - as we looked after his personal Gazelle, XW855 that now resides in the Hendon museum.
"Mrs" - yes. We never put rank or title on the "VIP" board.
"Mrs" - yes. We never put rank or title on the "VIP" board.
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Bribery and Corruption.
It's like buses, isn't it ? None at all for half an hour, and then....
It's true, Fareastdriver, the odd 'bung' generates no end of goodwill. IIRC, for a few years post war, we allowed the odd civil aircraft to land, and stay awhile, without charge. And this was reciprocated, a fact much appreciated by RAF weekenders. Then some jobsworth in Air Ministry heard of this, and stepped in to put a stop to it.
Henceforth we were obliged to charge the "civvies", and naturally they did the same to us, and it probably balanced out cashwise in the end, but a lot of vexatious paperwork was created meanwhile.
It fell to my lot to lecture on this subject at the School. But I was always careful to add a rider as follows:
"It happens at many places that a business aircraft will use your airfield on a regular basis, and you will of course ensure that he is charged appropriately on each occasion. But if you have treated him kindly and courteously, so that good relations have been established between you, then it may happen that an extra visit will be paid around Christmastime, offloading enough Christmas cheer to satisfy everybody in the Tower (what Flying Wing don't know about it won't hurt them)".
"Should such a thing happen, it would be basely ungrateful in the extreme to charge them on this occasion, and you will not do so. But be absolutely sure that no written record of the visit is left anywhere for an auditor to find !"
At the end of the class, two grizzled old M/Ps came up to me. "Sir, that is the most useful advice that we've learned on this entire Course so far !"....(I had done some good after all, it seemed).
Danny.
It's true, Fareastdriver, the odd 'bung' generates no end of goodwill. IIRC, for a few years post war, we allowed the odd civil aircraft to land, and stay awhile, without charge. And this was reciprocated, a fact much appreciated by RAF weekenders. Then some jobsworth in Air Ministry heard of this, and stepped in to put a stop to it.
Henceforth we were obliged to charge the "civvies", and naturally they did the same to us, and it probably balanced out cashwise in the end, but a lot of vexatious paperwork was created meanwhile.
It fell to my lot to lecture on this subject at the School. But I was always careful to add a rider as follows:
"It happens at many places that a business aircraft will use your airfield on a regular basis, and you will of course ensure that he is charged appropriately on each occasion. But if you have treated him kindly and courteously, so that good relations have been established between you, then it may happen that an extra visit will be paid around Christmastime, offloading enough Christmas cheer to satisfy everybody in the Tower (what Flying Wing don't know about it won't hurt them)".
"Should such a thing happen, it would be basely ungrateful in the extreme to charge them on this occasion, and you will not do so. But be absolutely sure that no written record of the visit is left anywhere for an auditor to find !"
At the end of the class, two grizzled old M/Ps came up to me. "Sir, that is the most useful advice that we've learned on this entire Course so far !"....(I had done some good after all, it seemed).
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 11th Sep 2013 at 21:43. Reason: Add Text.