MoD payout to injured office worker.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: @exRAF_Al
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MoD payout to injured office worker.
1. Don white collar. Ignore H&S training, sprain your back in the office: Get 200k. Kerchingg.
2. Don CS 95. Go to Basra, get hit by two mortar rounds, suffer serious internal injuries, a shattered pelvis, leg and lost the use of a hand: Get £57,587
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...soldier117.xml
2. Don CS 95. Go to Basra, get hit by two mortar rounds, suffer serious internal injuries, a shattered pelvis, leg and lost the use of a hand: Get £57,587
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...soldier117.xml
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Somerset
Age: 68
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Al, you missed a few steps out.
1. Don white collar.
2. Management Ignore H&S training & responsibilities,
3. sprain your back in the office:
4. Prove negligence (may take years, may get corporate cold shoulder in the process)
5. Get 200k. Kerchingg.
I agree that the military get a p**s poor deal but stop comparing MOD civilians with the Armed Forces. They are subject to the same rules and the same protection as any other employee, whether in Government service or Industry but they are not subject to the AFA. Would you have started this thread if it had been, for example, a Serco or Network Rail employee that got this award?
The MOD probably spent as much again fighting the case but in the end pay what a court tells them to.
1. Don white collar. Ignore H&S training, sprain your back in the office: Get 200k. Kerchingg.
2. Management Ignore H&S training & responsibilities,
3. sprain your back in the office:
4. Prove negligence (may take years, may get corporate cold shoulder in the process)
5. Get 200k. Kerchingg.
I agree that the military get a p**s poor deal but stop comparing MOD civilians with the Armed Forces. They are subject to the same rules and the same protection as any other employee, whether in Government service or Industry but they are not subject to the AFA. Would you have started this thread if it had been, for example, a Serco or Network Rail employee that got this award?
The MOD probably spent as much again fighting the case but in the end pay what a court tells them to.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: @exRAF_Al
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, I would have. Quite happily.
My point was not so much contra the civvy in question and neither was I aiming to strike up a them and us persecution note. I was reflecting more about the inadequacy of the Armed Forces Compensation system in relation to Serco or Network Rail workers, or in this case, the MoD civvy who is governed by CS rules and who has proper Union representation, and not just the usual tosh from superficially interested senior officers who are far too busy to devote the time to the matter that is deserved. With the greayest respect, the RBL is not able or should it be expected, to match the practical support and focused advice that a Union appointed solicitor is able to.
The fact remains. Private Cooper got far less (even weighting his salary expectations) for being more badly injured - far more badly injured, than the Civil Servant. Servicemen need more protection and I was not suggesting that civvies get less. Simply put, the Armed Forces bar and the levels of care it needs to demonstrate to those most needy within its ranks must to be raised to civilian levels, and not justified at its current depth. I am just as scathing of the system that gave a service typist a fortune for some thumb related injury.
My point was not so much contra the civvy in question and neither was I aiming to strike up a them and us persecution note. I was reflecting more about the inadequacy of the Armed Forces Compensation system in relation to Serco or Network Rail workers, or in this case, the MoD civvy who is governed by CS rules and who has proper Union representation, and not just the usual tosh from superficially interested senior officers who are far too busy to devote the time to the matter that is deserved. With the greayest respect, the RBL is not able or should it be expected, to match the practical support and focused advice that a Union appointed solicitor is able to.
The fact remains. Private Cooper got far less (even weighting his salary expectations) for being more badly injured - far more badly injured, than the Civil Servant. Servicemen need more protection and I was not suggesting that civvies get less. Simply put, the Armed Forces bar and the levels of care it needs to demonstrate to those most needy within its ranks must to be raised to civilian levels, and not justified at its current depth. I am just as scathing of the system that gave a service typist a fortune for some thumb related injury.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
We have just received a copy of the H&S instructions booklet. We had to sign as having received. On the back page there is a tearout page to be countersigned by the line manager and a copy put on file.
Very thick pair of trousers on someone's backside.
However the fine print works both ways. The car driving times are set out and also have a wonderful get out of jail card for the employee.
Travelling times may be reduced bearing in mind the age and health of the worker. Woebetide the boss who tries to apply pressure - no, you can't have overnight T&S
Simple, no T&S, no travel. "I'm alright Jack" Look after No 1 as no one else will. Not like green suits where you expect top cover as part of the deal.
Very thick pair of trousers on someone's backside.
However the fine print works both ways. The car driving times are set out and also have a wonderful get out of jail card for the employee.
Travelling times may be reduced bearing in mind the age and health of the worker. Woebetide the boss who tries to apply pressure - no, you can't have overnight T&S
Simple, no T&S, no travel. "I'm alright Jack" Look after No 1 as no one else will. Not like green suits where you expect top cover as part of the deal.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: @exRAF_Al
Posts: 3,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gladrag,
No time soon I'd imagine.
In the week that the Gurkhas got massive publicity and one in which a homosexual Iranian with a powerful, wealthy, meeja savvy, political influential and vociferous lobby behind him was saved from being deported, a lady who we expelled the other month from her hospital bed, and condemned to death as a direct result, died almost unnoticed. I am not an isolationist and I am not a little Englander, but what on earth is the point in us wrapping ourselves in a cloak of self righteous indignation and leaping across the globe to save anyone in need, when we get it so hopelessly wrong at home?
I was ashamed when I read this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7305963.stm
No time soon I'd imagine.
In the week that the Gurkhas got massive publicity and one in which a homosexual Iranian with a powerful, wealthy, meeja savvy, political influential and vociferous lobby behind him was saved from being deported, a lady who we expelled the other month from her hospital bed, and condemned to death as a direct result, died almost unnoticed. I am not an isolationist and I am not a little Englander, but what on earth is the point in us wrapping ourselves in a cloak of self righteous indignation and leaping across the globe to save anyone in need, when we get it so hopelessly wrong at home?
I was ashamed when I read this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7305963.stm
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: W Sussex
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Compensation and culture
I think we all know that if there was a will within HM Government or the Treasury these startling anomalies could be done away with at a stroke! 
What's so difficult about making the compensation the same as for criminal injuries?
I'm sure the great British public wouldnt mind!
PS Dont blame me I voted for the other lot!
What's so difficult about making the compensation the same as for criminal injuries?
I'm sure the great British public wouldnt mind!
PS Dont blame me I voted for the other lot!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Somerset
Age: 68
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Al R,
I totally agree with your points and I'm glad we weren't heading into some verbal ping-pong. I simply feel that the comparison approach is futile; it seems to me to echo the 'rights' arguments which keep wilfully non-contributing members of our society housed, fed and watered at public expense.
We need to stick to the facts. We agree that current levels of financial awards and long-term after care are inadequate. We have to say why, not just point at someone else and say they got shedloads therefore so should we. The debt we owe our war wounded should be acknowledged, and the fact that a cold cash calculation should be the start, not the end, of that settlement should also be acknowledged.
To quote Biggles225
That requires honourable people to do the honourable thing. As far as I can see that concept is beyond those people who call each other honourable and right honourable. However this is a populist government so publicity may be the key.
I totally agree with your points and I'm glad we weren't heading into some verbal ping-pong. I simply feel that the comparison approach is futile; it seems to me to echo the 'rights' arguments which keep wilfully non-contributing members of our society housed, fed and watered at public expense.
We need to stick to the facts. We agree that current levels of financial awards and long-term after care are inadequate. We have to say why, not just point at someone else and say they got shedloads therefore so should we. The debt we owe our war wounded should be acknowledged, and the fact that a cold cash calculation should be the start, not the end, of that settlement should also be acknowledged.
To quote Biggles225
if there was a will within HM Government or the Treasury
Sign of the times at MOD. At least the Taleban would stab you in the chest. Can't say the same for the civil serpents. At least they have some a decent art collection to admire as they snivel their way round MB.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: England
Posts: 964
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Riskman
I believe that you must make comparisons, however futile you think they may be. I for one do not see them as futile. If you say our servicemen are grossly under compensated when injured, it begs the question 'are they?' ''compared to what or who you?' might ask. 'Compared to a white collar worker who strains his back' we can now say! Any person with a modicum of sense who cares not about the military can now see beyond all reasonable doubt, that compared to the rights of 'normal workers', servicemen are indeed, grossly under compensated when suffering injury. With that comparison you can now lobby for appropriate publicity.
I agree that the white collar worker often benefits from good Union/Legal support. Why does the Armed Forces Federation not do something worthwhile about this? The union reps do not diplomatically pussyfoot around, they launch straight in both feet first when one of the people they represent needs support.
I believe that you must make comparisons, however futile you think they may be. I for one do not see them as futile. If you say our servicemen are grossly under compensated when injured, it begs the question 'are they?' ''compared to what or who you?' might ask. 'Compared to a white collar worker who strains his back' we can now say! Any person with a modicum of sense who cares not about the military can now see beyond all reasonable doubt, that compared to the rights of 'normal workers', servicemen are indeed, grossly under compensated when suffering injury. With that comparison you can now lobby for appropriate publicity.
I agree that the white collar worker often benefits from good Union/Legal support. Why does the Armed Forces Federation not do something worthwhile about this? The union reps do not diplomatically pussyfoot around, they launch straight in both feet first when one of the people they represent needs support.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: On the Outside
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps what grips me most about the MOD's wretched attempt at justifying this fiasco is the remark that 'injured servicemen receive not only a lump-sum compensation award but also a "guaranteed tax-free, index-linked" annual income for life.'
Does this mean that the Civil Service no longer doles out its only reason for working, ie its fat, index-linked pensions? I must have missed something...
Does this mean that the Civil Service no longer doles out its only reason for working, ie its fat, index-linked pensions? I must have missed something...
Ok, I'm going to bite here. This is a sign of the times yes, but two facts have yet to be determined - firstly how much was the guy seeking vis a vis his final award and secondly does the final award include costs - which could be a very substantial chunk of the 220k? The so called RAF Typists 434k turned out to be an awful lot less once the costs were taken out of that (although it was still a lot of money).
I've looked with sadness at some of the venom displayed towards CS here - despite what most people think the overwhelming majority of CS are on your side and don't go to work with a "how can we fcuk the forces over today" mentality. Yes in some areas you'll find prats, yes you'll find faststreamers who are often out of their depth, but for every fool, you'll find dozens of people who endure dire conditions, abysmall pay and limited promotion prospects but do it because they enjoy it or want to make a difference. Please don't go gunning for the CS just because of a few - its like me saying that all forces personnel are paedophiles because of the actions of a few - unfair, untrue and innapropriate.
I've looked with sadness at some of the venom displayed towards CS here - despite what most people think the overwhelming majority of CS are on your side and don't go to work with a "how can we fcuk the forces over today" mentality. Yes in some areas you'll find prats, yes you'll find faststreamers who are often out of their depth, but for every fool, you'll find dozens of people who endure dire conditions, abysmall pay and limited promotion prospects but do it because they enjoy it or want to make a difference. Please don't go gunning for the CS just because of a few - its like me saying that all forces personnel are paedophiles because of the actions of a few - unfair, untrue and innapropriate.
WTF is a 'faststreamer'?
Printer inflicted trauma, or PIT is a serious issue and we shouldn't underestimate the devastating effect it could have on someone. How disrespectful of us it to compare it with someone who is merely horrifically maimed.
MOD has mismanaged affairs to the point where there is a resounding vote of no confidence from those they are failing to support. Individuals may be making a gallant attempts, but it is failing abysmally as a collective. Those who have donned a uniform are taught collective responsibility from day one.
The day is not far away when those out of uniform within the MOD, will outnumber those in uniform. I look forward to seeing you take on the Taliban and the Iraqi insurgents with pencils and post it notes.
Printer inflicted trauma, or PIT is a serious issue and we shouldn't underestimate the devastating effect it could have on someone. How disrespectful of us it to compare it with someone who is merely horrifically maimed.
MOD has mismanaged affairs to the point where there is a resounding vote of no confidence from those they are failing to support. Individuals may be making a gallant attempts, but it is failing abysmally as a collective. Those who have donned a uniform are taught collective responsibility from day one.
The day is not far away when those out of uniform within the MOD, will outnumber those in uniform. I look forward to seeing you take on the Taliban and the Iraqi insurgents with pencils and post it notes.
Given that the "MOD" which you so despise in London has barely 3000 staff including security, cleaners and the like, of which some 2000 are military (so roughly the population of the average major RAF base then), I think you are being somewhat hysterical in your response.
I think this award is ludicrous. An insult to those who have been maimed and killed in conflicts anywhere. There can be no defence.
JimLad, I agree wholeheartedly with your second paragraph.
Minigun, as you probably know a “fast streamer” is someone who enters the CS at a middle grade and does not have to retrospectively attain the core or functional competencies others must learn and demonstrate in the previous 5 or 6 grades. That is, they’re good for SFA in that environment. Similar, in fact, to many serving officers who are suddenly thrust into posts they are simply not trained for, like Requirements and ILS management. If you can’t get that right, you haven’t got a snowballs chance. Works both ways.
JimLad, I agree wholeheartedly with your second paragraph.
Minigun, as you probably know a “fast streamer” is someone who enters the CS at a middle grade and does not have to retrospectively attain the core or functional competencies others must learn and demonstrate in the previous 5 or 6 grades. That is, they’re good for SFA in that environment. Similar, in fact, to many serving officers who are suddenly thrust into posts they are simply not trained for, like Requirements and ILS management. If you can’t get that right, you haven’t got a snowballs chance. Works both ways.
Given that the "MOD" which you so despise in London has barely 3000 staff including security, cleaners and the like, of which some 2000 are military (so roughly the population of the average major RAF base then), I think you are being somewhat hysterical in your response
There is a disparity here. I referred to the MOD, whereas you refer to MOD MB. You are forgetting all your colleagues in DTMA/IPT's and all the rest of the well performing entities. But then, if you don't even take them in to consideration, what hope have we.....
