Northrup Grumman/EADS win USAF tanker bid
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If Airbus had lost the contract, what would have become of SDD-1 and SDD-2 - the former already flying and the latter undergoing final assembly - is there any significant difference between the SDD aircraft and KC-30s for other countries?
Meanwhile, on the campaign trail:
Sen. Obama must have forgotten that you have to win a state in both the Primary and the General, not just the Primary - even Alabama. But this is the same Senator Obama who doesn't realise that NAFTA as currently negotiated preserves US energy security.
Seriously - this is like Patriots fans complaining that even though the Superbowl is a competition, the Giants were supposed to just show up and look pretty. (As this is the NFL, looking pretty is a relative rather than absolute value)
Meanwhile, on the campaign trail:
Sen. Barack Obama expressed his disappointment Sunday that Northrop Grumann and the parent company of Europe’s Airbus beat out Chicago-based Boeing Co. for a contract worth up to $40 billion for the next generation of U.S. Air Force refueling tankers.
Obama said it was hard for him to believe “that having an American company that has been a traditional source of aeronautic excellence would not have done this job.” He preempted his comments by saying that he had not examined the deal carefully.
Obama said it was hard for him to believe “that having an American company that has been a traditional source of aeronautic excellence would not have done this job.” He preempted his comments by saying that he had not examined the deal carefully.
Seriously - this is like Patriots fans complaining that even though the Superbowl is a competition, the Giants were supposed to just show up and look pretty. (As this is the NFL, looking pretty is a relative rather than absolute value)
Westie, you may well be correct about Mr Wroblewski thinking of the A400M.
If so, he is even less well informed than he indicates....
The A400M common-standard aircraft does indeed stand on its wheels right now. But should fly mid-2008....
Perhaps even before the Boeing 7-late-7 takes to the skies?
If so, he is even less well informed than he indicates....
The A400M common-standard aircraft does indeed stand on its wheels right now. But should fly mid-2008....
Perhaps even before the Boeing 7-late-7 takes to the skies?
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Beags - I sincerely doubt encouraging people to research the development timelines of A400M vs B787 is going to look good on A400M, even if you build in time wasted on the Sonic Loser. Future International Military Airlifter goes back 26 years...
Most of the delays to the A400M have been political, not technical.
And it will also have a tanker role, Mr Wroblewski.
It was a shame about the Sonicruiser, I thought Boeing had managed to discover some new aerodynamic technique which would have permitted economic cruise in the very high subsonic regime. Had they actually done so, the Sonicruiser would have been a world-beater!
And it will also have a tanker role, Mr Wroblewski.
It was a shame about the Sonicruiser, I thought Boeing had managed to discover some new aerodynamic technique which would have permitted economic cruise in the very high subsonic regime. Had they actually done so, the Sonicruiser would have been a world-beater!
Perhaps even before the Boeing 7-late-7 takes to the skies?
Apples to oranges. If however you want to pound a square peg through a round hole, the 787 trumps your turboprop.
I couldn't agree more, Westie.
Abject failure to deliver a pretty straightforward airliner on time does indeed trump political delays to an advanced high speed military airlifter.
I really wish that Boeing had been able to develop the Sonicruiser - it would have been truly revolutionary.
Abject failure to deliver a pretty straightforward airliner on time does indeed trump political delays to an advanced high speed military airlifter.
I really wish that Boeing had been able to develop the Sonicruiser - it would have been truly revolutionary.
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SDD-1 (or D-1) flew on September 25 last.
UPDATE: For Lazer-Hound:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/7272475.stm
UPDATE: For Lazer-Hound:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/7272475.stm
More jobs are expected to be created at Airbus's Flintshire plant after the company struck a £20bn contract with the US Air Force.
The future of the plant's current 7,400 staff was secured with the announcement that they will build wings for a fleet of 179 in-flight refuelling aircraft.
Brian Fleet, a former Broughton apprentice who is now an Airbus senior vice president, said it was "highly probable" more staff would be needed.
The future of the plant's current 7,400 staff was secured with the announcement that they will build wings for a fleet of 179 in-flight refuelling aircraft.
Brian Fleet, a former Broughton apprentice who is now an Airbus senior vice president, said it was "highly probable" more staff would be needed.
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So, we've got a name for the FSTA (in the lines of Dave etc)!
Susan- as suggested earlier on in the topic.
There is alot of patriotic nonsense coming from the Americans on other forums- airliners for example. But the fact that the NG/EADS won 4 out of 5, then DREW on the 5th is quite difficult to compete with!
Susan- as suggested earlier on in the topic.
There is alot of patriotic nonsense coming from the Americans on other forums- airliners for example. But the fact that the NG/EADS won 4 out of 5, then DREW on the 5th is quite difficult to compete with!
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So, we've got a name for the FSTA (in the lines of Dave etc)!
Susan- as suggested earlier on in the topic.
There is alot of patriotic nonsense coming from the Americans on other forums- airliners for example. But the fact that the NG/EADS won 4 out of 5, then DREW on the 5th is quite difficult to compete with!
Susan- as suggested earlier on in the topic.
There is alot of patriotic nonsense coming from the Americans on other forums- airliners for example. But the fact that the NG/EADS won 4 out of 5, then DREW on the 5th is quite difficult to compete with!
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The reason Boing (sic) lost the contract is simple - they thought it was a shoe-in until a few years ago, when they had their eyes wiped for dodgy practices - hence they didn't bother doing any serious development work until it was too late.
However, it concerns me somewhat that Scarebus haven't yet got any proven track record with Mil types in service. And Scarebus's dodgy practices are even worse than Boing's.
I think this is a case of 'Boeing caught napping', rather that 'Airbus products proven superior', TBH.
The whinging lefties were inevitable, whoever won - it's just America's lefties bleating instead of the Frogs for a change!
However, it concerns me somewhat that Scarebus haven't yet got any proven track record with Mil types in service. And Scarebus's dodgy practices are even worse than Boing's.
I think this is a case of 'Boeing caught napping', rather that 'Airbus products proven superior', TBH.
The whinging lefties were inevitable, whoever won - it's just America's lefties bleating instead of the Frogs for a change!
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Sen. Obama must have forgotten that you have to win a state in both the Primary and the General, not just the Primary - even Alabama.
Note: The Democratic Party is traditional unionist party. Washington State (Beoing hometown) is a Democratic stronghold. Obama is from Illinois. Don't be surprised if the deal is overturned/sweetner deals offerred if the Democrats win the Presidency.
Westie, the aircraft has more than just the wings fitted now!
From http://www.airbusmilitary.com/press.html :
"As an auspicious start to the New Year in Seville the first complete A400M airframe was removed from the assembly jigs at the FAL on January 2nd and towed to an adjacent development hangar, where work will commence on strain gauge calibration tests prior to further preparation for systems ground tests."
The first aircraft is due to fly in July2008.
Some 'Hercules'!:
From http://www.airbusmilitary.com/press.html :
"As an auspicious start to the New Year in Seville the first complete A400M airframe was removed from the assembly jigs at the FAL on January 2nd and towed to an adjacent development hangar, where work will commence on strain gauge calibration tests prior to further preparation for systems ground tests."
The first aircraft is due to fly in July2008.
Some 'Hercules'!:
Last edited by BEagle; 3rd Mar 2008 at 07:01.
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False Alarm
Just for one moment I was delighted to pull out the Daily Telegraph business supplement and saw a big picture of an A330 with FSTA emblazoned all over it, at last!!!!. Sadly it was an artists drawing being used to illustrate the USAF deal. Ah Well, dream on.
Just for one moment I was delighted to pull out the Daily Telegraph business supplement and saw a big picture of an A330 with FSTA emblazoned all over it, at last!!!!. Sadly it was an artists drawing being used to illustrate the USAF deal. Ah Well, dream on.
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From Avweb today
Air Force To Fly Airbus
Anyone who thought the drawn-out battle to choose the new generation Air Force tanker aircraft ended with the Pentagon’s decision Friday to go with the Northrop-Grumman/EADS consortium likely has another think coming. "This won't be pretty," Rep. Norm Dicks, D-Wash., told The Seattle Times Saturday. "There will be a firestorm of criticism on Capitol Hill,” Dicks, whose Seattle-area district depends heavily on Boeing for its economic well-being, warned. Although the loss of the $40 billion deal is not expected to result in any job losses at Boeing, the contract would have created up to 8,000 additional jobs and kept the 767 assembly line going well beyond 2012 when the last commercial 767 is finished. It’s an election year in which the economy is in trouble and protectionist sentiments have been expressed by both Democratic presidential nomination contenders. Not only that, the leading Republican contender is remembered as the politician that killed the original contract awarded to Boeing in 2003, so it would seem the tanker issue will have pretty long legs.
"We should have an American tanker built by an American company with American workers," said Rep. Todd Tiahrt, R-Kan., whose district includes Boeing’s Wichita plant. Leading Democratic presidential hopefuls Sen. Hilary Clinton and Sen. Barack Obama have both been trumpeting protectionist policies of late but it’s Republican front-runner John McCain who might face the most scrutiny. It was pressure from McCain that scotched a 2003 award to Boeing for a total of 100 767-based tankers. McCain alleged favoritism in the bidding process and the Pentagon rescinded the contract in 2004. Now there are allegations the most recent bidding process was changed to favor the Airbus/Northrop Grumman bid. In the end, it may well be the U.S.-first sentiment that dominates the chorus of discontent. "Obviously, Congress is going to react to the American public," Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., said. "You can put an American sticker on a plane and call it American, but that doesn't make it American-made." Which aircraft will do the best job for the best price does not seem to figure into the current debate.
French Jobs Lost By Winning Tanker Contract
Not everyone associated with the EADS/Northrop-Grumman victory in the Air Force tanker contract is celebrating. The union representing workers at EADS Toulouse factories claims the deal will cost French jobs because of the consortium’s commitment to build an assembly plant for the tankers in Mobile, Ala. In 2006, EADS agreed to build a plant in China to win contracts there and the CFDT union claims that’s chipping away at the French workforce. British unions are hailing the contract saying it will secure thousands of jobs in plants that build major structures like wings. And, of course, Mobile couldn’t be happier about the decision. Civic and state officials are portraying the contract award as turning point for the social and economic structure of the area. "The opportunities for decades to come are just so real and so big. It's really kinda hard to put it all in perspective," Congressman Jo Bonne told WKRG. The first priority is upgrading Brookley Field to accommodate the factory and the traffic it will generate.
Air Force To Fly Airbus
Anyone who thought the drawn-out battle to choose the new generation Air Force tanker aircraft ended with the Pentagon’s decision Friday to go with the Northrop-Grumman/EADS consortium likely has another think coming. "This won't be pretty," Rep. Norm Dicks, D-Wash., told The Seattle Times Saturday. "There will be a firestorm of criticism on Capitol Hill,” Dicks, whose Seattle-area district depends heavily on Boeing for its economic well-being, warned. Although the loss of the $40 billion deal is not expected to result in any job losses at Boeing, the contract would have created up to 8,000 additional jobs and kept the 767 assembly line going well beyond 2012 when the last commercial 767 is finished. It’s an election year in which the economy is in trouble and protectionist sentiments have been expressed by both Democratic presidential nomination contenders. Not only that, the leading Republican contender is remembered as the politician that killed the original contract awarded to Boeing in 2003, so it would seem the tanker issue will have pretty long legs.
"We should have an American tanker built by an American company with American workers," said Rep. Todd Tiahrt, R-Kan., whose district includes Boeing’s Wichita plant. Leading Democratic presidential hopefuls Sen. Hilary Clinton and Sen. Barack Obama have both been trumpeting protectionist policies of late but it’s Republican front-runner John McCain who might face the most scrutiny. It was pressure from McCain that scotched a 2003 award to Boeing for a total of 100 767-based tankers. McCain alleged favoritism in the bidding process and the Pentagon rescinded the contract in 2004. Now there are allegations the most recent bidding process was changed to favor the Airbus/Northrop Grumman bid. In the end, it may well be the U.S.-first sentiment that dominates the chorus of discontent. "Obviously, Congress is going to react to the American public," Sen. Patty Murray, D-Wash., said. "You can put an American sticker on a plane and call it American, but that doesn't make it American-made." Which aircraft will do the best job for the best price does not seem to figure into the current debate.
French Jobs Lost By Winning Tanker Contract
Not everyone associated with the EADS/Northrop-Grumman victory in the Air Force tanker contract is celebrating. The union representing workers at EADS Toulouse factories claims the deal will cost French jobs because of the consortium’s commitment to build an assembly plant for the tankers in Mobile, Ala. In 2006, EADS agreed to build a plant in China to win contracts there and the CFDT union claims that’s chipping away at the French workforce. British unions are hailing the contract saying it will secure thousands of jobs in plants that build major structures like wings. And, of course, Mobile couldn’t be happier about the decision. Civic and state officials are portraying the contract award as turning point for the social and economic structure of the area. "The opportunities for decades to come are just so real and so big. It's really kinda hard to put it all in perspective," Congressman Jo Bonne told WKRG. The first priority is upgrading Brookley Field to accommodate the factory and the traffic it will generate.