Britain urged to love a man in uniform again
Blackadder
I am in accord with you old chap - let's wear uniform (all types as well - flying suits for those that have been flying and none of the "No1 and 2 only" nonsense). In fact I have been wearing my uniform coming and going to work for years - I have gaffed off the so-called "security advice" from our Mars Bar wearing friends. I once asked them if I could wear uniform on a civvy flight to Leuchars for a staff visit - the advice was "Yes, you can Sir, for an internal flight, however with the security situation at airports I would advise against it"...I can't think of a safer place in the world than an airport, the Police are armed to the teeth and everyone has to pass through security screening and metal detectors!!!
Anyway, if I now want to collect the family dinner from Waitrose on the way home in uniform at least I will be "authorised" to do so.
LJ
PS All those people who change to go home - do you really think it makes a difference? DVLA will pass out your details and your name, if you're an officer, your name is in the RAF List. One of these people I know used to be in the BBMF - they used to publish bl@@dy colour brochures with his mug shot in it and then give them to anyone!
I am in accord with you old chap - let's wear uniform (all types as well - flying suits for those that have been flying and none of the "No1 and 2 only" nonsense). In fact I have been wearing my uniform coming and going to work for years - I have gaffed off the so-called "security advice" from our Mars Bar wearing friends. I once asked them if I could wear uniform on a civvy flight to Leuchars for a staff visit - the advice was "Yes, you can Sir, for an internal flight, however with the security situation at airports I would advise against it"...I can't think of a safer place in the world than an airport, the Police are armed to the teeth and everyone has to pass through security screening and metal detectors!!!
Anyway, if I now want to collect the family dinner from Waitrose on the way home in uniform at least I will be "authorised" to do so.
LJ
PS All those people who change to go home - do you really think it makes a difference? DVLA will pass out your details and your name, if you're an officer, your name is in the RAF List. One of these people I know used to be in the BBMF - they used to publish bl@@dy colour brochures with his mug shot in it and then give them to anyone!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
all service personnel should be encouraged to wear their uniforms on leave.
Or standing in a crowded smokey corridor of a train, standing room only, full of other happy sailors, soldiers and airmen going home on leave?
Or down the pub, battledress jacket open, rolled beret in the epaulette?
blogger
Are you proud of the fact that you didn't wear uniform and by your own admission so you can "keep your head cool in the summer". What a complete
I joined the RAF in the early 80s and apart from a tour in the Ivory Towers have worn uniform throughout. Anyone who was naive enough to think that the IRA didn't have a good surveillance system in the 80s was living in cloud cuckoo land. If they wanted to hit a serviceman they would, whether you pretended to disguise yourself or not.
It is time that we got back into the habit of wearing uniform in public, and in particular back in MOD. It might remind some of the civil serpants just who they are supposed to be working for and with!!
Are you proud of the fact that you didn't wear uniform and by your own admission so you can "keep your head cool in the summer". What a complete
I joined the RAF in the early 80s and apart from a tour in the Ivory Towers have worn uniform throughout. Anyone who was naive enough to think that the IRA didn't have a good surveillance system in the 80s was living in cloud cuckoo land. If they wanted to hit a serviceman they would, whether you pretended to disguise yourself or not.
It is time that we got back into the habit of wearing uniform in public, and in particular back in MOD. It might remind some of the civil serpants just who they are supposed to be working for and with!!
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Blogger, that would have been great advice if a certain group of Arabic buddies hadn't started crashing airliners right after the hijack... when was the last Beirut-style hijack since 9/11?
Things have changed, and continue to change.
Things have changed, and continue to change.
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Foolish Knaves - beware a giver of kind words in deed
"What task is this I behold? - to appear in public and attend to my duty in cloth so befitting my station as to reward me with no allowances of "MUFFTI" I'm told"
"Sorry Shakespear rake, Gordon's spotted another Stealth tax take"
"What task is this I behold? - to appear in public and attend to my duty in cloth so befitting my station as to reward me with no allowances of "MUFFTI" I'm told"
"Sorry Shakespear rake, Gordon's spotted another Stealth tax take"
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Roland (and all who agree with him), can I suggest you take a step back and look at the bigger picture.
The Security Service MI5 have recently told the public through open documents and briefings that they are 'overstretched' (unlike the Armed Forces who are only 'stretched'), and can not carry out the necessary surveillance on known Muslim extremists in this country. By the way, we are not talking about 40 or 50 individuals, the number is in the THOUSANDS.
So in the light of what I have just said, and the fact a plot to kidnap and kill a British serviceman has already been foiled, I have a question for you.
If, God forbid, someone was compromised because they were wearing uniform in the street. Would you be happy to stand in front of a funeral service and tell everyone 'I want all service personnel to carry on being seen in uniform in public as much as possible' ? Or are you happy to keep your standpoint until something does happen and then re-asses. Because I for one would rather air on the side of caution.
We're not playing about here guys. This is not just a case of PR or doing 'the right thing'. I'd rather be anonymous any day than have my address noted and sent off somewhere nasty.
FbS.
The Security Service MI5 have recently told the public through open documents and briefings that they are 'overstretched' (unlike the Armed Forces who are only 'stretched'), and can not carry out the necessary surveillance on known Muslim extremists in this country. By the way, we are not talking about 40 or 50 individuals, the number is in the THOUSANDS.
So in the light of what I have just said, and the fact a plot to kidnap and kill a British serviceman has already been foiled, I have a question for you.
If, God forbid, someone was compromised because they were wearing uniform in the street. Would you be happy to stand in front of a funeral service and tell everyone 'I want all service personnel to carry on being seen in uniform in public as much as possible' ? Or are you happy to keep your standpoint until something does happen and then re-asses. Because I for one would rather air on the side of caution.
We're not playing about here guys. This is not just a case of PR or doing 'the right thing'. I'd rather be anonymous any day than have my address noted and sent off somewhere nasty.
FbS.
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Have we not forgotten that the terrorists already probably have our names, addresses, bank details on god knows what else that was on the missing laptop?
Anyone travelling through Waterloo station on a Friday or Sunday night can spot the squaddies/ memebers of the forces a mile away! We are kind of noticable with the haircuts and all. If we want to truelly blend in then the forces should go SAS style and have what ever hair style we want and be allowed to sprout weird and wonderful facial hair! Just a thought.
Anyone travelling through Waterloo station on a Friday or Sunday night can spot the squaddies/ memebers of the forces a mile away! We are kind of noticable with the haircuts and all. If we want to truelly blend in then the forces should go SAS style and have what ever hair style we want and be allowed to sprout weird and wonderful facial hair! Just a thought.
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Virtually every terrorist organisation considers military personnel as legitimate targets, they will always seek out the easy target. You can not "spot squadies" a mile off you can only assume, by wearing uniform in public you become a confirmed target. Concentrations of service folk outside the wire become obvious, as do patterns of movement, etc. You might not be the victim, but you could well set the pattern that leads to an attack.
The risk may be low, but it is there and should not be ignored. The principle is the same as flight safety, reduce the risk as much as possible, there is no magic answer but not wearing uniform in public reduces the risk.
There are those who don't think there is any threat, choose to ignore it or think it will not happen to them, but many have learnt the hard way over the last past 50 odd years. Just because you can not see it doesn’t make it real.
Why don't terrorists wear uniform, oh yeah it makes them easy to spot
The risk may be low, but it is there and should not be ignored. The principle is the same as flight safety, reduce the risk as much as possible, there is no magic answer but not wearing uniform in public reduces the risk.
There are those who don't think there is any threat, choose to ignore it or think it will not happen to them, but many have learnt the hard way over the last past 50 odd years. Just because you can not see it doesn’t make it real.
Why don't terrorists wear uniform, oh yeah it makes them easy to spot
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I see from the Torygraph - more public parades and more Open Days.
I guess the Spirit of Adventure is a dead duck and the traditional station open days may return, provided the beannies keep their hands out of the till.
Mind you the parades might have to be in columns of 3 with the centre file hollow. The 4-ship scramble might have to be a singleton or pair at best. Unless we can get some former Soviet air force to step in, with Bears perhaps?
I guess the Spirit of Adventure is a dead duck and the traditional station open days may return, provided the beannies keep their hands out of the till.
Mind you the parades might have to be in columns of 3 with the centre file hollow. The 4-ship scramble might have to be a singleton or pair at best. Unless we can get some former Soviet air force to step in, with Bears perhaps?
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Used to make me laugh that during my period of service, the wearing of uniform was strictly banned.
However just waiting at Paddington Station in the 90's at about 7:00pm and watch the blokes with grade 4 on top grade 1-2 on the sides, standing in groups or walking with hands almost clenched as if on a parade square, full of confidence, and watching everyone and everything. Hmm I wonder what they do for a living.
Shame as I think I may have managed to increase my 'cricket score' if I had been allowed to travel about with my Green Lid on.
However just waiting at Paddington Station in the 90's at about 7:00pm and watch the blokes with grade 4 on top grade 1-2 on the sides, standing in groups or walking with hands almost clenched as if on a parade square, full of confidence, and watching everyone and everything. Hmm I wonder what they do for a living.
Shame as I think I may have managed to increase my 'cricket score' if I had been allowed to travel about with my Green Lid on.
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The only proviso I would make would be "all".
GPMG has the size of it.
It is quite fun doing a squaddie spot. As ha says, 'Paddington'. Basically any rail station near an airfield, barracks, docks or whatever. I don't know about the pusser's suitcase anymore but the 'new' non-RAF blue holdall is one dead giveaway.
The lack of any military clothing in a group is another - no DPM trousers and trainers. Then there may be the odd T-shirt or tattoo.
Once saw 4 of the shush, you know who, doing what we were doing "tickets on departure" at Heathrow. Not a beer gut in sight, all suntanned and all but invisible.
OK, maybe we can spot these things and Joe Public can't.
GPMG has the size of it.
It is quite fun doing a squaddie spot. As ha says, 'Paddington'. Basically any rail station near an airfield, barracks, docks or whatever. I don't know about the pusser's suitcase anymore but the 'new' non-RAF blue holdall is one dead giveaway.
The lack of any military clothing in a group is another - no DPM trousers and trainers. Then there may be the odd T-shirt or tattoo.
Once saw 4 of the shush, you know who, doing what we were doing "tickets on departure" at Heathrow. Not a beer gut in sight, all suntanned and all but invisible.
OK, maybe we can spot these things and Joe Public can't.
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but the 'new' non-RAF blue holdall is one dead giveaway.
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Remember when travelling from Lincoln to Kings X in the 50's, stopping at Grantham and Cranwell Cadets boarding the train in 'civvies'. To a man they were wearing , either Harris tweed sports jacket, cavalry twill trousers, Vyella shirt, woollen tie, and pork pie hat, or blazer RAF badge & tie!
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goudie
Reminds me of an RAF friend who did an exchange tour as an instructor at Sandhurst. His cadets had spent the whole day on manoeuvres running through the trees with camouflage gear and rifles, then repaired to the mess tent for dinner. He was surrounded by cadets all sporting the kind of identical gear you mentioned, and one said to my pal, 'Sir, it's so good to be out of uniform at last.'
Reminds me of an RAF friend who did an exchange tour as an instructor at Sandhurst. His cadets had spent the whole day on manoeuvres running through the trees with camouflage gear and rifles, then repaired to the mess tent for dinner. He was surrounded by cadets all sporting the kind of identical gear you mentioned, and one said to my pal, 'Sir, it's so good to be out of uniform at last.'
FbS
Yes, I would. If anyone wishes to go undercover (and as many have already said - they aren't that undercover) I have no problem with that, it is personal choice. I just say that I have no problem with wearing uniform in public, its not just about PR its about reminding the general population, particularly the MPs and civil servants, that we exist. We should not hide away and we should be proud of what we do. Sometimes you do have to do what is right!
In a previous life I was lucky enough to visit a number of MODs around Europe, ME and the States, including in countries where there was a terrorist threat against their military, and their military wore uniform in public and in the MOD. If we are hidden, we have lost!
And if you think driving out of a military base to your home address prevents someone from a. working out you are in the military b. stops someone from following you and c. protects your home address then you are also naive.
Yes, I would. If anyone wishes to go undercover (and as many have already said - they aren't that undercover) I have no problem with that, it is personal choice. I just say that I have no problem with wearing uniform in public, its not just about PR its about reminding the general population, particularly the MPs and civil servants, that we exist. We should not hide away and we should be proud of what we do. Sometimes you do have to do what is right!
In a previous life I was lucky enough to visit a number of MODs around Europe, ME and the States, including in countries where there was a terrorist threat against their military, and their military wore uniform in public and in the MOD. If we are hidden, we have lost!
And if you think driving out of a military base to your home address prevents someone from a. working out you are in the military b. stops someone from following you and c. protects your home address then you are also naive.
I had to go to hospital whilst on shift as Guard Commander - it's amazing how much general respect you get - and how quickly you get seen standing around in No 3's.
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Visit any town in the 'States' that has a Military Establishment nearby and men and women can be seen everywhere in uniform. As a Nation, with a strong military identity, we do seem to have become very unsure of ourselves.
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Early '90s on exercise with the Picket Boats from Dartmouth. Sunday morning and we moor alongside in Totnes. We are all in Combat jackets, lighweights and combat highs - not a stitch of civilian clothing between us. As we've got a couple of hours to spare we're being allowed to go around town before heading back to Dartmouth.
"Right", says the Instructing Officer, "We need to look more civilian. Everyone take off your berets!".
Yes, as though a group of late teens/early 20 year olds wondering around in greens didn't stand out...
"Right", says the Instructing Officer, "We need to look more civilian. Everyone take off your berets!".
Yes, as though a group of late teens/early 20 year olds wondering around in greens didn't stand out...