Sikorsky say that CH-148 Cyclone for Canadian forces will be 2-3 years late
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Sikorsky say that CH-148 Cyclone for Canadian forces will be 2-3 years late
Sikorsky say that CH-148 Cyclone for Canadian forces will be 2-3 years late and has implications for Sea King fleet
Well blow my socks off we could never have predicted this.
Why did'nt they buy Merlin!!!! It was the right decision 10 years ago and it was the right decision when this ridiculous order was announced.
The Canuck boys have been seen off again!!!!
Si
Well blow my socks off we could never have predicted this.
Why did'nt they buy Merlin!!!! It was the right decision 10 years ago and it was the right decision when this ridiculous order was announced.
The Canuck boys have been seen off again!!!!
Si
Si,
Couldn't agree more! Canadian helicopter procurement is almost as bad as ours! Don't forget; they've actually bought Merlin twice already. The first order was cancelled after an election, then after a high profile Sea King accident the competition was re-run. Merlin won again. To spare political blushes, the new aircraft was called Cormorant but due to the liquidated damages after the first cancellation they could not afford enough...... The Cyclone contract has always mystified me; granted, the briefs I've had on the CH-148 indicate a potentially capable and cheap to run platform; my issue has always been that cost-of-ownership must be high due to introducing a new type rather than more Merlins. The UK equivalent was, of course, purchasing Merlin rather than more Chinooks for overtly political reasons in 1995. I guess Sikorsky got in with la Quebecois?
Rumour has it that the French-Canadians are trying to get their fingers into the new buy of Chinooks, either with offsets or basing.
Either way, bad news for the Sea King crews having to stagger on for another few years.
Will they never learn?
Couldn't agree more! Canadian helicopter procurement is almost as bad as ours! Don't forget; they've actually bought Merlin twice already. The first order was cancelled after an election, then after a high profile Sea King accident the competition was re-run. Merlin won again. To spare political blushes, the new aircraft was called Cormorant but due to the liquidated damages after the first cancellation they could not afford enough...... The Cyclone contract has always mystified me; granted, the briefs I've had on the CH-148 indicate a potentially capable and cheap to run platform; my issue has always been that cost-of-ownership must be high due to introducing a new type rather than more Merlins. The UK equivalent was, of course, purchasing Merlin rather than more Chinooks for overtly political reasons in 1995. I guess Sikorsky got in with la Quebecois?
Rumour has it that the French-Canadians are trying to get their fingers into the new buy of Chinooks, either with offsets or basing.
Either way, bad news for the Sea King crews having to stagger on for another few years.
Will they never learn?
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Evalu8tor,
the EH 101 bid for MHP actually put more work into QC than the winning Sikorsky bid. The reason for fixing the competition to select anything but EH 101 is very clear. The Liberals wouldn't have been able to handle the flak if they paid out 1/2 billion dollars in cancellation fees and THEN re-ordered the same aircraft they had cancelled in 1993.
the EH 101 bid for MHP actually put more work into QC than the winning Sikorsky bid. The reason for fixing the competition to select anything but EH 101 is very clear. The Liberals wouldn't have been able to handle the flak if they paid out 1/2 billion dollars in cancellation fees and THEN re-ordered the same aircraft they had cancelled in 1993.
A long shot, but maybe there is a better platform than Merlin? Maybe their politicians don't have an interest in keeping Wastelands and British WasteofSpace in bribes? or the SFO in work?
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minigun - the choice made means we now have even more time with very old SKs - which I doubt you would agree is better than a Merlin? Let some country not currently criticially short of support helicopter assets in a hostile deployment work out Sikorsky's production problems.
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Evalu8ter - they're trying to fix the Chinook blunder, except there's a delay on that delivery too!
Carsonising the SKs: the CF could indeed do that, and perhaps they still will now they have to wait for the Cyclones, but the CF SKs are really really old (could be that the UK Carsonised ones are newer builds?) and probably would need more than just new blades. This article claims the Cyclone delivery was agreed to a schedule coincident with the max life of the SK fleet. Sikorsky are contracted to pay penalties but dollars won't fix the equipment gap.
This delay throws chaos into the system regardless as there will have been assumptions made about forward training needs on the SK fleet, overhaul schedules for birds slated to be grounded when Cyclones arrive and so on.
On the plus side - at least we didn't listen to Airbus' promises about A400M's delivery schedule and have our C-17ERs in service now.
Carsonising the SKs: the CF could indeed do that, and perhaps they still will now they have to wait for the Cyclones, but the CF SKs are really really old (could be that the UK Carsonised ones are newer builds?) and probably would need more than just new blades. This article claims the Cyclone delivery was agreed to a schedule coincident with the max life of the SK fleet. Sikorsky are contracted to pay penalties but dollars won't fix the equipment gap.
This delay throws chaos into the system regardless as there will have been assumptions made about forward training needs on the SK fleet, overhaul schedules for birds slated to be grounded when Cyclones arrive and so on.
On the plus side - at least we didn't listen to Airbus' promises about A400M's delivery schedule and have our C-17ERs in service now.
Of course it could be that major performance/technology gains have been offered a few years down the line, so a decision to wait and benefit has been taken.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
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Hi-Life,
What performance upgrades. The S92 was always going to be limited as it's an uprated SH60 in reality.
This is all to do with integration of a mission system into a platform promised over an unrealistically short time frame. Us procurement and T&E specialists always knew Sikorsky were spinning a yarn when they promised it. I just do not understand why the Canadians did it !
Oh I forgot. It was politics.
Si
What performance upgrades. The S92 was always going to be limited as it's an uprated SH60 in reality.
This is all to do with integration of a mission system into a platform promised over an unrealistically short time frame. Us procurement and T&E specialists always knew Sikorsky were spinning a yarn when they promised it. I just do not understand why the Canadians did it !
Oh I forgot. It was politics.
Si
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junglyAEO,
Never been paid by Wastelands - or likely to be.
Yes I am a Merlin driver and on current capability it is the best ASW/ASuW(if it had a weapon) shipborne platform currently available. Having served my time in T&E and flown maybe only 25 types I probably know my lemons from my melons.
I know you don't like Merlin per se but it was also v.popular in Iraq and I am sure will do well as a Mk3A in warmer and higher climbs. Additionally my friends who have moved between Merlin and S92 in civvy street tell me it's not as good as the Sikorsky sales team would have you believe.
The point is here that Sikorsky promised an unacheivable delivery date, and everyone in the business knew it.
Now, what about NH90?
Si
Never been paid by Wastelands - or likely to be.
Yes I am a Merlin driver and on current capability it is the best ASW/ASuW(if it had a weapon) shipborne platform currently available. Having served my time in T&E and flown maybe only 25 types I probably know my lemons from my melons.
I know you don't like Merlin per se but it was also v.popular in Iraq and I am sure will do well as a Mk3A in warmer and higher climbs. Additionally my friends who have moved between Merlin and S92 in civvy street tell me it's not as good as the Sikorsky sales team would have you believe.
The point is here that Sikorsky promised an unacheivable delivery date, and everyone in the business knew it.
Now, what about NH90?
Si
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Isn't it kind of ironic that Canada will have Merlin for SAR and S-92 for ASW/ASuW whilst we're likely to have Merlin for ASW/ASuW and contractorised S92 for SAR......?
quickie question whats happening with the purchase of CH-47F for CAF?
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