Disband the Royal Air Force?
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Odiham
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think the issue might now be: do we go down the route of a British Defence Force (as a prelude to a European Defence Force)?
The Australians and Canadians tried it and it failed, they then reverted (after considerable cost and dis-organisation) back to a Tri Service Armed Forces. I sincerely hope we won't have to learn that lesson too. I see no reason why the Three Services (and Royal) cannot continue to operate with true jointery. I have spent many months, in total, onboard her Majesties finest flat tops, cruising some war zones and some nicer parts, and have no problems with that.
But, the FAA are the aviation experts at sea and in the littoral, the AAC are the experts in Attack and the RAF SH Force (and CHF) are the experts in SH and SF.
Why try to fix it if it aint broken?
The Australians and Canadians tried it and it failed, they then reverted (after considerable cost and dis-organisation) back to a Tri Service Armed Forces. I sincerely hope we won't have to learn that lesson too. I see no reason why the Three Services (and Royal) cannot continue to operate with true jointery. I have spent many months, in total, onboard her Majesties finest flat tops, cruising some war zones and some nicer parts, and have no problems with that.
But, the FAA are the aviation experts at sea and in the littoral, the AAC are the experts in Attack and the RAF SH Force (and CHF) are the experts in SH and SF.
Why try to fix it if it aint broken?
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 868
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VVH etc
You really do have a strange take on things for a military person!
Not once here have I 'compared' the RAF to the Navy (unlike you) and should I feel the need, the last place I would 'defend' my Service is on an anonymous website (unlike you).
I would also give the stand-up routine some more work if I were you.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Falmouth
Posts: 1,651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Totally agree with you wokka.... but we need to persuade the CS bean counters that we need to retain an independent Air Force. With an 11% defence budget cut looming the SDR is going to hurt.
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: S England
Age: 54
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have also spent a great deal of time working with the FAA and AAC and while I have the utmost respect for them, they are not professional aviators in the same way the RAF are. Full stop.
In the same way that the point was made about dragging an injured Britair off the dirt, remember who is circling above you and escorting you, allowing your role to be completed that much more safely.
Silly boy!
I think (and hope) that Wokka's comment referred to the fact that the Army are soldiers first, aviators second, similarly the RN has traditionally put deep blue water stuff first.
The RAF of today has a differing stance, you are an adminer/opsy/guard/ firefighter/storeman first, and aviator second.
However, Chicken Leg, we know exactly watches our backs in theatre and you have our deepest respect.
The RAF of today has a differing stance, you are an adminer/opsy/guard/ firefighter/storeman first, and aviator second.
However, Chicken Leg, we know exactly watches our backs in theatre and you have our deepest respect.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Odiham
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Chicken leg
Right......and if you ask any AAC Pilot what he does, he is a soldier first and an aviator second.
I know because I work with them.
It was not meant in any way to be derogatory, and I am not saying that the FAA and AAC are not professional in what they do, merely a reflection of the fact that I am an aviator first and an officer on the RAF second - my job is to fly.
As usual though the insecurities come flooding out on here (anonymously) and it turns into a slagging match. I have the utmost respect for the boys and girls who provide me with MS, however where I go and what I do, we rarely have the luxury of MS from the AAC. But I will remember your comments CL.
Right......and if you ask any AAC Pilot what he does, he is a soldier first and an aviator second.
I know because I work with them.
It was not meant in any way to be derogatory, and I am not saying that the FAA and AAC are not professional in what they do, merely a reflection of the fact that I am an aviator first and an officer on the RAF second - my job is to fly.
As usual though the insecurities come flooding out on here (anonymously) and it turns into a slagging match. I have the utmost respect for the boys and girls who provide me with MS, however where I go and what I do, we rarely have the luxury of MS from the AAC. But I will remember your comments CL.
Look, you lot, these puerile internecine wranglings help no-one. So I would suggest you stop right now.
Personally I far preferred to check in rather than to dig in. Who wouldn't? Any idiot can be uncomfortable.
But it seems that there are those who joined the UK Armed Forces to eat dung and live in ditches and also those who joined to enjoy a twist of rough shag and whittling scrimshaw whilst bobbing up and down in little grey boats.
Just show them some pity and let them get on with it - they don't know what they're missing.
Personally I far preferred to check in rather than to dig in. Who wouldn't? Any idiot can be uncomfortable.
But it seems that there are those who joined the UK Armed Forces to eat dung and live in ditches and also those who joined to enjoy a twist of rough shag and whittling scrimshaw whilst bobbing up and down in little grey boats.
Just show them some pity and let them get on with it - they don't know what they're missing.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Odiham
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Crikey Beags,
'puerile internecine wranglings'
please stop using big words it makes my head hurt! Chicken leg, do you know what he is on about?
I guess I was just exercising my right to free speech, as Britair was, and therefore our entitlement to 'discuss' differing points of view. I am not slagging off Chicken leg, simply expanding on the comments of mine that made him take offence! As I said before I have the utmost respect and admiration for the AAC and FAA - so why suggest to us that we should stop?
To get back on topic though, Britair is conspicuous with his absence of response.........
Some people get so touchy on here sometimes
'puerile internecine wranglings'
please stop using big words it makes my head hurt! Chicken leg, do you know what he is on about?
I guess I was just exercising my right to free speech, as Britair was, and therefore our entitlement to 'discuss' differing points of view. I am not slagging off Chicken leg, simply expanding on the comments of mine that made him take offence! As I said before I have the utmost respect and admiration for the AAC and FAA - so why suggest to us that we should stop?
To get back on topic though, Britair is conspicuous with his absence of response.........
Some people get so touchy on here sometimes
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Uk
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"do we go down the route of a British Defence Force"
indeed what possible reason is there to stop at 2 separate branches of the armed forces, once you gone down that route the only eventual end point is one
be careful what you wish for
"why are CHF getting RAF cast-off Merlin Mk3s"
karma for 30 years of the RN forcing over-specified expensive maintenance hungry aircraft on everyone else?
indeed what possible reason is there to stop at 2 separate branches of the armed forces, once you gone down that route the only eventual end point is one
be careful what you wish for
"why are CHF getting RAF cast-off Merlin Mk3s"
karma for 30 years of the RN forcing over-specified expensive maintenance hungry aircraft on everyone else?
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Where the wild things are
Age: 52
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Outsiders viewpoint
My (coppers) helmet and body armour are already on as I type but...... Why don't we stop trying to punch so far above our weight, save a shed load of money and MUCH more importantly save a lot of lives further down the line? An air force configured for the defence of the UK, its assets and its dependencies, a Navy configured to defend our coastline, our maritime trade traffic and our oil installations and an Army configured to defend the land masses of the UK, its assets and dependencies. Altogether far smaller forces, more economically viable and more relevant to what the tax payer really needs (admittedly not necesarily what they want).
Just a thought and in no way meant to be derogatory to any of the UK's Armed Forces who all do a damned good job as far as I and most other UK citizens are concerned.
LBP PC DC
Just a thought and in no way meant to be derogatory to any of the UK's Armed Forces who all do a damned good job as far as I and most other UK citizens are concerned.
LBP PC DC
'Warfighter' - what an appalling piece of Spam-speak. Please assure me that the RAF doesn't use such a ridiculous term. You'll be saying "oo-rah" or whatever that silly noise is next....
It sounds like the name of some kids' computer game...
It sounds like the name of some kids' computer game...
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: in fighter town
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
War fighter
'Warfighter' - what an appalling piece of Spam-speak. Please assure me that the RAF doesn't use such a ridiculous term.
its on the main gate at RAF Cottesmore in big green and white letters!
its on the main gate at RAF Cottesmore in big green and white letters!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Now that we have not got a War Office but a Defence Ministry we should have Defenders First, Aviators Second, or some such.
Or perhaps re-title the MOD as the Ministry of Peace(makers).
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Odiham
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Folding Wings:
As an aside, I am not in the RAF, I am in the Joint Helicopter Command! (although the RAF retain full command of the people via 1 Gp....)
Jointery at its best chap!
As for current RAF speak? Havn't got a clue, been in staff with Royal for the last couple of years
As an aside, I am not in the RAF, I am in the Joint Helicopter Command! (although the RAF retain full command of the people via 1 Gp....)
Jointery at its best chap!
As for current RAF speak? Havn't got a clue, been in staff with Royal for the last couple of years