Hats- why bother?
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How would you salute or, more importantly, return salutes?
I find my arm goes and up and down just as well whether I'm wearing a hat or not.
How would you salute or, more importantly, return salutes?
I find my arm goes and up and down just as well whether I'm wearing a hat or not.
Have the RAF always had the policy of saluting an Officer whether wearing headress / uniform or not?
I was always briefed that on dispersal / after flight line headress was FOD and should be removed. Everywhere else on station headress should be worn whether in a grow bag or any other acceptable uniform.
In the RN you find that most T42 Captains insist that their officers wear a shirt and tie despite the fact that a short sleeve shirt, negative tie (3C) is perfectly acceptable uniform. The point is that you just live by the rules and get on with it don't you?
The RAF have always (whilst in uniform) saluted the Queens Commision, whether the holder of that commision is wearing uniform with or without a hat.
If the Saluter is without a hat, then a salute is not given, but an acknowledgement of the Queens Commision is still required. eg. 'Good Morning Sir/Ma'am'
Regarding saluting an holder of the Queens Commision who is wearing civilian clothing, if the saluter recognises the person in civilian clothes is a holder of the Queens Commision, then that Commision is acknowledged with a salute, and an acknowledgement that a salute has been given to the Queens Commision is still required.
So the RAF never salute an Officer, they salute the Queens Commision.
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I have had a recent arguement with a friend about how all of the armed forces are professional and take their service ethos very seriously. He was adamant that the Royal Air Force were nothing but "civilians who all wore the same clothes from time to time" and that the majority had no service ethos whatsoever. I argued strongly for the contrary.
Reading this thread, however, has done my arguement no good at all and made me think I should reconsider my opinion!
Reading this thread, however, has done my arguement no good at all and made me think I should reconsider my opinion!
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We were also taught to salute an officer's wife as an acknowledgement much in the same way that we would raise or doff our hat when in civvies (see Henry Crun).
Similarly saluting on entering an officer's office. One thing I was never clear on though was the protocol for an senior officer entering the office of a junior officer ~ when I went through that possibility probably did not arise
.
Remember the old wartime films? Everyone wore head dress in the briefing room? You saluted when you entered on the assumption that a more senior officer was present - that was true in the 60s. Now you just slope in sideways and hope no one notices.
Similarly saluting on entering an officer's office. One thing I was never clear on though was the protocol for an senior officer entering the office of a junior officer ~ when I went through that possibility probably did not arise
.Remember the old wartime films? Everyone wore head dress in the briefing room? You saluted when you entered on the assumption that a more senior officer was present - that was true in the 60s. Now you just slope in sideways and hope no one notices.
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All this chat about hats, saluting, rank etc. brings the following story to mind.
An Army Captain was walking along the road of a RAF Station, a Ch/Tech walking in the opposite direction gave the Captain a smart salute whereupon the Captain (intrigued by the upside down stripes) stopped the Chief and asked what was his rank. When told he said 'What would have been your rank had you been in the Army'?
'Brigadier sir' came the quick response.
True I swear
An Army Captain was walking along the road of a RAF Station, a Ch/Tech walking in the opposite direction gave the Captain a smart salute whereupon the Captain (intrigued by the upside down stripes) stopped the Chief and asked what was his rank. When told he said 'What would have been your rank had you been in the Army'?
'Brigadier sir' came the quick response.
True I swear
On the subject of berets - I found it irritating (and hot) that, when in Belize, we had to wear what is basically a woolly hat when it was regularly 95 degrees in the shade. A sombrero would have been far more effective!
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Saluting on Entering an Office
Wader,
When I was holding at Cranditz I was saluted by the Gp Capt when he entered my office in Whittle Hall, I was a mere Acting Pilot Officer.
I returned the compliment in his office 3 hours later with 2 Flt Lts after he discoverd that I was one of the 3 culprits he was looking for when he entered my office.
That was one of those your hat my office, no tea and biscuits moments.
From then on if I entered another officers' office, and I had my hat, on I would salute regardless of rank. Never reallly came up that much though.
When I was holding at Cranditz I was saluted by the Gp Capt when he entered my office in Whittle Hall, I was a mere Acting Pilot Officer.
I returned the compliment in his office 3 hours later with 2 Flt Lts after he discoverd that I was one of the 3 culprits he was looking for when he entered my office.
That was one of those your hat my office, no tea and biscuits moments.
From then on if I entered another officers' office, and I had my hat, on I would salute regardless of rank. Never reallly came up that much though.
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My first boss always had a picture of Her Majesty the Queen behind his desk. His comment was 'if you don't like saluting me, or my Commission then you will bloody well salute her'. Here here I say! As for all that crap spouted earlier about breathing the same air, sh!tt!ng the same and not liking the person you are saluting. Yes we are all human beings but some are afforded Commissioned command and like it or not we are higher up the pecking order than you; so buckle-up lad, stand tall, salute smartly and be punctillious about it.
Cunning Artificer
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He was adamant that the Royal Air Force were nothing but "civilians who all wore the same clothes from time to time" and that the majority had no service ethos whatsoever. I argued strongly for the contrary.
Reading this thread, however, has done my arguement no good at all and made me think I should reconsider my opinion!
Reading this thread, however, has done my arguement no good at all and made me think I should reconsider my opinion!
Once a Brat always a Brat.
Through Difficulties To The Cinema
Yes, Him
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Well said Blackie, couldn't have put it better.
Remember the earlyish days of Harrier deployed ops. No saluting in the Field, snipers, blah etc.
A few of 1(F) Troop's Leapin Heaps deploy to the far reaches (Vigo Wood, at the western end of Wittering). Mate gets a tug for not saluting, "But we're in the Field, snipers, blah etc".
"No, this is a practice Field exercise, not a Field exercise".
Boys' Ploy, if it ever kicks off, salute everyone you don't like.
Remember the earlyish days of Harrier deployed ops. No saluting in the Field, snipers, blah etc.
A few of 1(F) Troop's Leapin Heaps deploy to the far reaches (Vigo Wood, at the western end of Wittering). Mate gets a tug for not saluting, "But we're in the Field, snipers, blah etc".
"No, this is a practice Field exercise, not a Field exercise".
Boys' Ploy, if it ever kicks off, salute everyone you don't like.
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Just my thoghts off the cuff, but I believe they reflect the current policy and etiquette.
I certainly don't ever recall saluting an officer's wife and wouldn't unless she were herself entitled to it. What if your were a sqn ldr and the air cdre were married to a flt lt?
Saluting entering an officer's office yes, irrespective of relative rank. I do find it a bit odd that some places (SHQs in the main) feel the need to have a sign that says words to the effect that 'headdress is to be worn in this building...'
Commissioned officers being saluted in or out of uniform is still correct and whilst stn cdrs and air offrs normally have flags and plates on cars, there is still a requirement to salute someone you recognise in a vehicle if you would normally be required to salute them outside it.
Wearing headdress in civvies was always intended to allow a salute to be returned (by raising the hat in response).
STH
I certainly don't ever recall saluting an officer's wife and wouldn't unless she were herself entitled to it. What if your were a sqn ldr and the air cdre were married to a flt lt?
Saluting entering an officer's office yes, irrespective of relative rank. I do find it a bit odd that some places (SHQs in the main) feel the need to have a sign that says words to the effect that 'headdress is to be worn in this building...'
Commissioned officers being saluted in or out of uniform is still correct and whilst stn cdrs and air offrs normally have flags and plates on cars, there is still a requirement to salute someone you recognise in a vehicle if you would normally be required to salute them outside it.
Wearing headdress in civvies was always intended to allow a salute to be returned (by raising the hat in response).
STH
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I've always thought the American Forces custom of saluting with hats off was rather vulgar. Mind you they don't know how to salute anyway (longest way up 2, 3, -shortest way down) for those who've forgotten..................................now where was I?