Drugs to stay awake - alert
Thread Starter
Drugs to stay awake - alert
Suspect I might get my head bitten off... or provoke some sick jokes, but this is a genuine question. I should add, I recognise military flying sometimes calls for procedures, manouveres, practises, that in the civillian world would never be deemed safe.
A while back I read in a nameless newspaper that, due to the high intensity of sorties, and the long time in the air on each, US fast jet pilots flying off carriers during GW2 were being prescribed - how shall we put it - certain medications to keep them awake and alert... i.e. amphetemines.
I know that with ground troops in WW2, Vietnam etc... there were many experiments with giving troops such substances to promote alertness, overcome fear etc.
But initially the thought of flying a multi-million dollar fast jet off a carrier, at night, with full tanks and loaded to the max with live weapons while having such substances in your bloodstream seemed too scary to be true.
Then I considered I was probably just being a little naive, and that maybe this was one of those realities about military operations that those in uniform don't talk about... and that crashing said jet due to tiredness would be more frightening than flying a little `wired' and wide awake. Do the military know in detail exactly the degree that aviators reflexes etc. are affected by such drugs? Is it true... or just another case of sensationalist, over imaginative and inaccurate non-specialist media getting it wrong?
A while back I read in a nameless newspaper that, due to the high intensity of sorties, and the long time in the air on each, US fast jet pilots flying off carriers during GW2 were being prescribed - how shall we put it - certain medications to keep them awake and alert... i.e. amphetemines.
I know that with ground troops in WW2, Vietnam etc... there were many experiments with giving troops such substances to promote alertness, overcome fear etc.
But initially the thought of flying a multi-million dollar fast jet off a carrier, at night, with full tanks and loaded to the max with live weapons while having such substances in your bloodstream seemed too scary to be true.
Then I considered I was probably just being a little naive, and that maybe this was one of those realities about military operations that those in uniform don't talk about... and that crashing said jet due to tiredness would be more frightening than flying a little `wired' and wide awake. Do the military know in detail exactly the degree that aviators reflexes etc. are affected by such drugs? Is it true... or just another case of sensationalist, over imaginative and inaccurate non-specialist media getting it wrong?
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Nomadic
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The US Miltary Medical system did do research on this prior to letting the dudes take these things. They were strictly regulated and the cycles in which they could use them were also closely managed.
...nothing new here.
...nothing new here.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Various
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It has been looked at, it has been done.
Next step is to bring in the "drugged pilot" angle followed shortly by the blue on blue crowd.
Next is to dig out everyones laundry and discuss it. Those forces that admit to it that is.
Been done here many times before. Do a search.
Next step is to bring in the "drugged pilot" angle followed shortly by the blue on blue crowd.
Next is to dig out everyones laundry and discuss it. Those forces that admit to it that is.
Been done here many times before. Do a search.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Hence the name uppers and downers.
In the 70s we used to get Mogadon. In theory you could be woken with no residual sleepiness. I know they worked well as downers but the upper bit was not very good and certainly not good enough for QRA.
The docs were very cautious in issuing them because they could lead to dependency. I took them occasionally when the operations cycle was well out of synch with the body clock. Sometimes, where the sortie had been very intense, the brain would not stop the mission replay loop.
Psychologically it was a comfort knowing that you could take a knockout drop if Mrs PN, PN minors and PN dogs were too noisy.
In the 70s we used to get Mogadon. In theory you could be woken with no residual sleepiness. I know they worked well as downers but the upper bit was not very good and certainly not good enough for QRA.
The docs were very cautious in issuing them because they could lead to dependency. I took them occasionally when the operations cycle was well out of synch with the body clock. Sometimes, where the sortie had been very intense, the brain would not stop the mission replay loop.
Psychologically it was a comfort knowing that you could take a knockout drop if Mrs PN, PN minors and PN dogs were too noisy.
The Spams were certainly using something in 2002. A C-17 crew flew in to the base where we were detached with a load of 'passengers' on their way to an extended holiday in Cuba...
They'd flown a very long time, but were bouncing around our living room like tiggers on springs - and laughing like idiots at the slightest thing. Very odd.
It seems they were taking some form of 'upper' to wake them up prior to landing.
They'd flown a very long time, but were bouncing around our living room like tiggers on springs - and laughing like idiots at the slightest thing. Very odd.
It seems they were taking some form of 'upper' to wake them up prior to landing.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Over the sea and far away
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
See the incident regarding a Canadian-US blue on blue in 2002.
The link is here:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle125456.ece
The link is here:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...icle125456.ece
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The front end and about 50ft up
Posts: 510
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Royal Air Force 'upper' drug, currently in routine use
Take one large mug with sqn badge on front. Realise you can't find the one with your comedy nickname on it because someone has nicked it, broken it left it growing mould somewhere or the boss has it on his desk for some reason. Instead select least scabby alternative mug not belonging to one of sqn execs. This will probably have a permanent brown scale on the inside and cracks that have turned black from bacterial infestations. If you're lucky it may even have one solitary noodle or crouton dried out and bonded to the inside base.
Select spoon. Find the 'spoon mug'. Remove one spoon from the mug of grey water and check for contamination, brown crust, rustiness etc.
Take 4 heaped spoons of granules from the industrial size tub of own brand coffee. Add another level spoonful just to be sure.
Add water from the 4 terawatt boiler on the wall. Notice how the pipe to the boiler says 'not drinking water'. Burn yourself slightly on either the dry steam coming out of the boiler or the drops of superheated water that without fail always splash you.
That's going to be bitter so find the industrial size sugar tub. Fish around amongst the coagulated lumps of discoloured sugar where people have spilt their drinks into the tub to try to find some uncontaminated sugar in powder form. Take three spoonfuls. Make sure you stir each spoonful in and do not dry the spoon before getting the next spoonful. That way you can get the sugar wet with coffee so the next person can share the same experience as you.
Go to fridge for milk. Realise that the duty bod hasn't bothered to collect the milk for the last few days. Find 12 cartons frozen solid in the freezer and one carton in the fridge which is two weeks old and has turned to cottage cheese. Abondon milk plans.
Stir thoroughly and spill a bit on the work top and floor. Your coffee should smell odd and have a viscous consistency. Don't use the tea towel - it hasn't been washed since the 1990s. Use a bit of blue roll instead and leave it on the floor.
Run along to the night flying brief. Spill more coffee on the stairs and scald your hands a bit. Try to keep awake through night brf and enjoy. You'll be buzzing by the time you taxy.
Select spoon. Find the 'spoon mug'. Remove one spoon from the mug of grey water and check for contamination, brown crust, rustiness etc.
Take 4 heaped spoons of granules from the industrial size tub of own brand coffee. Add another level spoonful just to be sure.
Add water from the 4 terawatt boiler on the wall. Notice how the pipe to the boiler says 'not drinking water'. Burn yourself slightly on either the dry steam coming out of the boiler or the drops of superheated water that without fail always splash you.
That's going to be bitter so find the industrial size sugar tub. Fish around amongst the coagulated lumps of discoloured sugar where people have spilt their drinks into the tub to try to find some uncontaminated sugar in powder form. Take three spoonfuls. Make sure you stir each spoonful in and do not dry the spoon before getting the next spoonful. That way you can get the sugar wet with coffee so the next person can share the same experience as you.
Go to fridge for milk. Realise that the duty bod hasn't bothered to collect the milk for the last few days. Find 12 cartons frozen solid in the freezer and one carton in the fridge which is two weeks old and has turned to cottage cheese. Abondon milk plans.
Stir thoroughly and spill a bit on the work top and floor. Your coffee should smell odd and have a viscous consistency. Don't use the tea towel - it hasn't been washed since the 1990s. Use a bit of blue roll instead and leave it on the floor.
Run along to the night flying brief. Spill more coffee on the stairs and scald your hands a bit. Try to keep awake through night brf and enjoy. You'll be buzzing by the time you taxy.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Exiled in England
Age: 48
Posts: 1,015
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One wonders which of you lucky aircrew has to do teas and keys??
If ever any poor liney at any section I have ever been to left the T-bar in such a state they would be hauled over the coals and torn a new asrehole.......
when I had the privelige (sp) of the duty the T-bar was clean enough to eat your dinner on, without a plate. I also dicovered the Jeltex jacket and microwave combination...........
I got the b4st4rds back though, a crewroom full of frozen berets, hi-viz jackets and eardefs. And I Rimmed Princess's mug.
If ever any poor liney at any section I have ever been to left the T-bar in such a state they would be hauled over the coals and torn a new asrehole.......
when I had the privelige (sp) of the duty the T-bar was clean enough to eat your dinner on, without a plate. I also dicovered the Jeltex jacket and microwave combination...........
I got the b4st4rds back though, a crewroom full of frozen berets, hi-viz jackets and eardefs. And I Rimmed Princess's mug.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Age: 53
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Modofanil
One of the medications being tested by Aeromedical researchers is called Modofanil. It is regularly prescribed by civilian practitioners to combat 'daytime fatigue'. Essentially it blocks the neural receptors which respond to hormones released when tired.
Tests have shown that subjects prescribed larger doses of Modofanil can continue to operate for at least 48 hours of intensive cognitive activity with no reduction in perception, judgement, coordination and mental wellbeing. The subjects were then removed from the medication and tested for cognition and coordination. The tests showed an expected reduction in effective neurological function. After two sleep cycles of 10 hours over 2 days, the subjects were tested again and were shown to have recovered.
It is not a stimulant and works in a totally different way to caffeine, ketamine and amphetamine. Much safer and more reliable.
The long and the short is that if you take this stuff you can fly, drive, sail and fight for at least 48 hours with absolutely no loss of function. Modofanil is an amazing product and might be coming to a medical centre near you.
SVS
Tests have shown that subjects prescribed larger doses of Modofanil can continue to operate for at least 48 hours of intensive cognitive activity with no reduction in perception, judgement, coordination and mental wellbeing. The subjects were then removed from the medication and tested for cognition and coordination. The tests showed an expected reduction in effective neurological function. After two sleep cycles of 10 hours over 2 days, the subjects were tested again and were shown to have recovered.
It is not a stimulant and works in a totally different way to caffeine, ketamine and amphetamine. Much safer and more reliable.
The long and the short is that if you take this stuff you can fly, drive, sail and fight for at least 48 hours with absolutely no loss of function. Modofanil is an amazing product and might be coming to a medical centre near you.
SVS
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: UK
Age: 53
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BEagle
At 1 minute past those 48 hours you probably wouldn't notice any degradation. 48 hours was set as a reliable limit, with a bit of fat built in. At 72 hours though the subjects tested showed the same loss of function which they would if they had been operating for 24 hours. Essentially Modofanil gives you a 48 hour head start on your work cycle.
As for B2 crews, I don't know what is prescribed for them; but it they would seem to be ideal candidates for this sort of application.
Other applications are to enable effective function after a long journey or a poor/interrupted period of rest.
As for B2 crews, I don't know what is prescribed for them; but it they would seem to be ideal candidates for this sort of application.
Other applications are to enable effective function after a long journey or a poor/interrupted period of rest.
Last edited by Sir Vical Smear; 20th Nov 2007 at 19:54. Reason: Spelin
Cunning Artificer
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
Age: 76
Posts: 3,127
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought everyone was aware that B2 crews used drugs to stay awake on their 20 hour missions.
I recall being given pills during a couple of Mickey Finns back in 67-68. They kept me awake well enough but when they wore off I didn't wake up for nearly two days. On the second occasion they wore off early and I fell asleep standing up against the GPU on the ORP at Valley. I slept right through the scramble - quite an achievement within forty or fifty feet of a pair of B1as at full take-off power.
Some people said their pills had no effect, while others at other dispersal airfields weren't given any at all. The control groups I suppose.