Just a photo. But what a photo.
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Aren't they beautiful?
Why did we have 3 different designs and 3 different aeroplanes? Were the missions that different, or was the g'ment propping up 3 companies?
Even the Valiant looks graceful in that, almost B47 like.
Why did we have 3 different designs and 3 different aeroplanes? Were the missions that different, or was the g'ment propping up 3 companies?
Even the Valiant looks graceful in that, almost B47 like.
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Back in 1989 I was at RAF Manston doing my basic fire-fighting course, we had a Victor on the fire ground that we used to torch and practice on, even back then I thought it was sacrilege.
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And Thawes pics show the prototype.
As for why three different types the Valiant was the lowest risk quickest entry into service option. The other two were seen by the government of the day as insurance options. This was the cold war remember with multiple dispersals and the Vs were the only credible retaliation force before SLBM and MRBM became available. Probably something to do with the UK government actually being committed to defence of the UK and its interests. Air defence was also served by different types in the early fifties. Unfortunately since that era we have consistently put all our eggs in one basket.
As for why three different types the Valiant was the lowest risk quickest entry into service option. The other two were seen by the government of the day as insurance options. This was the cold war remember with multiple dispersals and the Vs were the only credible retaliation force before SLBM and MRBM became available. Probably something to do with the UK government actually being committed to defence of the UK and its interests. Air defence was also served by different types in the early fifties. Unfortunately since that era we have consistently put all our eggs in one basket.
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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Nacluv
I took this pic with a 'box brownie' when WB771 first pitched up at Farnborough in 1953. Hazledon flew the display on the first day with only 3 engines thanks to a fuel system problem. As you may know the aircraft was lost with Taff Ecclestone and his crew on 14 July 54 when the tail fluttered off during PEC tower flyby runs at Cranfield. Some six weeks earlier Taff had been a Sqn Ldr doing gun firing trials on the early Hunter at Farnborough. These had hacked him off as the engine kept stopping and he did not think that was on for a family man so he said in my hearing that he was off to join H-P where they had four engines per aeroplane.
JF
I took this pic with a 'box brownie' when WB771 first pitched up at Farnborough in 1953. Hazledon flew the display on the first day with only 3 engines thanks to a fuel system problem. As you may know the aircraft was lost with Taff Ecclestone and his crew on 14 July 54 when the tail fluttered off during PEC tower flyby runs at Cranfield. Some six weeks earlier Taff had been a Sqn Ldr doing gun firing trials on the early Hunter at Farnborough. These had hacked him off as the engine kept stopping and he did not think that was on for a family man so he said in my hearing that he was off to join H-P where they had four engines per aeroplane.
JF
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Forgive the dumb question, but I was reading earlier that the fuselage was pressurised all the way to the nose, and that the avioncis and radar took up a lot of the space aft. Is that what the bulge contains?
John,
Doesn't she look a peach (although the Valiant in the 3some photo is growing on me)? She looks dramatic even now, I can't begin to hazard a guess at the reaction she got in the post war years. Imagine it. From the Lancaster to that; in terms of time, in little more than from when we invaded Afghanistan.. to now.
How tragic for Sqn Ldr Ecclestone and the crew.
John,
Doesn't she look a peach (although the Valiant in the 3some photo is growing on me)? She looks dramatic even now, I can't begin to hazard a guess at the reaction she got in the post war years. Imagine it. From the Lancaster to that; in terms of time, in little more than from when we invaded Afghanistan.. to now.
How tragic for Sqn Ldr Ecclestone and the crew.
I dunno. I think one could get some VC-10 fuselages and tails, glue on some Nimrod wings and engines, and you'd get one of these pretty jets back (or a reasonable facsimile at least)..
Forgive the dumb question, but I was reading earlier that the fuselage was pressurised all the way to the nose, and that the avioncis and radar took up a lot of the space aft. Is that what the bulge contains?
The forward part of the bulge was indeed a radome, with the aft part, from approx the crew door back, able to store the four fly-away pack boxes and a spare set of wheels and jack.
The rest of the fly away spares, such as the brake chutes, were stored in the 'back hatch' at the aft end, approximately below the fwd end of the fin.
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Cheers RF. Thanks.
My Alfa wheel jack goes under the floor of the boot, shame they couldn't have just fitted the Victor's under someone's seat. It almost looks as if the design team came up with a sublime drawing, and the engineers deflated them by saying 'Ok smartarses, now what about the radar and spare wheels and stuff?'.
If I was ever destined to pilot an aircraft (properly), something like a Victor would have done me. A real man's plane.. with men, with lots more buttons and loads of engines. It would have had room for an ashtray, a magazine rack and a rug. Not like these little fighter things.
My Alfa wheel jack goes under the floor of the boot, shame they couldn't have just fitted the Victor's under someone's seat. It almost looks as if the design team came up with a sublime drawing, and the engineers deflated them by saying 'Ok smartarses, now what about the radar and spare wheels and stuff?'.
If I was ever destined to pilot an aircraft (properly), something like a Victor would have done me. A real man's plane.. with men, with lots more buttons and loads of engines. It would have had room for an ashtray, a magazine rack and a rug. Not like these little fighter things.
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Awesome! 
Is that third one Akr, with North Ridge and the Salt Lake in the background?
Good to see that chaps had stairs too, and not a silly ladder. Far too undignified.
Is that third one Akr, with North Ridge and the Salt Lake in the background?
Good to see that chaps had stairs too, and not a silly ladder. Far too undignified.
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Black and White
Also, nothing beats that clip of the V- planes .. Vulcan and escorts at an early show. In back and white of course. Soviet military intelligence must of shat themselves.
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Al R.............
I think you're right re the location but would have to check with the old man - I had a feeling some of the shots were taken at Goose Bay but he has all the notes on them - I just scanned them in for him so he has a permanent copy of each.
The photo of the guys boarding shows Wing Commander Green (Dad usually worked on his jet) and his crew preparing for the trip back to Cottesmore after deployment.
Personal favourite is the line-up showing the very smart looking visitors from Alconbury next to the rather "stuffy" looking RAF crew (Dad's words not mine!)
Just to add that that last year Dad contacted the XV Squadron Association and attended their annual dinner at Cottesmore. I think he was one of the few (maybe only) former non comms to attend and met a good number of aircrew whom he knew from his time in the RAF, 58 to 62. He's stayed in touch with some of them and I am now pleased to say I am furnished with a regular supply of wonderful V-Bomber stories!
The photo of the guys boarding shows Wing Commander Green (Dad usually worked on his jet) and his crew preparing for the trip back to Cottesmore after deployment.
Personal favourite is the line-up showing the very smart looking visitors from Alconbury next to the rather "stuffy" looking RAF crew (Dad's words not mine!)
Just to add that that last year Dad contacted the XV Squadron Association and attended their annual dinner at Cottesmore. I think he was one of the few (maybe only) former non comms to attend and met a good number of aircrew whom he knew from his time in the RAF, 58 to 62. He's stayed in touch with some of them and I am now pleased to say I am furnished with a regular supply of wonderful V-Bomber stories!
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Having had the privilege of flying all the V's bar the Mk1 Vulcan I reckon the Valiant was the most conventional and looked somehow stately, the Vulcan was the most maneuverable, good for displays, but uncomfortable and a bit of a big boys toy until Corporate. The Victor was striking to look at,the most effective and most challenging to fly. Once Freds Sheds had sorted out initial hydraulic problems the Victor became the longest lasting and hardest working of the V's particularly in the AAR role.
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Excellent photos!! And what a top thread.
Izod - I have the book (mandatory reading for anyone with aviation sympathies in my view) but the photo in question is a little small. I actually prefer the photo under that one, which is of a B2 just coming over the top of a loop.
Al_R and JF et al - many thanks. Gareth - I can't believe you actually apologised for posting those photos.
Izod - I have the book (mandatory reading for anyone with aviation sympathies in my view) but the photo in question is a little small. I actually prefer the photo under that one, which is of a B2 just coming over the top of a loop.
Al_R and JF et al - many thanks. Gareth - I can't believe you actually apologised for posting those photos.
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When the Victor 2s were converted to tankers at Woodford, there were still a number of Vulcan hands around. They weren't over complimentary about certain aspects of accessibility in the Victor. What did impress them, though, was the HP solution to joining the main planes to the centre section; interlocking "dagger plates". I had a picture of the test specimen on the STS rig but I'm damned if I can find it now.
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Wow!
Whatever happened to us, we used to design and use aircraft that not only looked fantastic, but also showed exactly what they were for.
Fantastic thread, thanks.
Whatever happened to us, we used to design and use aircraft that not only looked fantastic, but also showed exactly what they were for.
Fantastic thread, thanks.