National Service Aircrew
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mstjbrown
National Service was increased as a result of the Korean war and came into effect on the 1 October 1950. At the same time regular servicemen had six months active reserve added to the end of their engagement. consequently there was a six months period without any "demobs". We started a kitty to have a monumental p*ss up for the first person to be discharged at the end of the period. Unfortunately that person had rather strong anti-drink views, but we still went ahead anyway. This could explain my constant hangover!
National Service was increased as a result of the Korean war and came into effect on the 1 October 1950. At the same time regular servicemen had six months active reserve added to the end of their engagement. consequently there was a six months period without any "demobs". We started a kitty to have a monumental p*ss up for the first person to be discharged at the end of the period. Unfortunately that person had rather strong anti-drink views, but we still went ahead anyway. This could explain my constant hangover!
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Another NS Pilot here!
Report Padgate 28/11/49, uniform issue, then off to Hornchurch for pilot selection, back to Padgate to wait for result and then sew on cadet pilot insignia (what?) go to Driffield for a few days, home for Christmas and report to Wittering for ITS. Move to Jurby after Easter for further six weeks, then off to Tern Hill to fly Prentices and Harvards. Some were trained on Balliols but not my course. One guy was taken to Driffield to convert to Vampire T11 to see if it was feasible but he returned after ten hours or so and continued with the course. NS increased from 18 months to 2 years in 1951. Originally course was aimed to get "wings" before demob, but with extended time those selected for jets went to Valley for AFS on Meteors for dual, Vampire 1s and 5s for solo. Others did AFS on either Wellingtons or Mosquitos. Then to Chivenor for OCU and "out". Before being accepted for training one agreed to do 5 years in either RAFVR (Chipmunks & Tigers) or RAux AF squadron. Incidentally, we had become "officer cadet pilot 4s" on the Harvard stage and on graduation were either commissioned or became sergeant pilots. Subsequent courses were APOs. Throughout the Tern Hill phase we wore officer cadet uniforms and lived in the OM. I think that in early 1951 the aircrew ranks, apart from master aircrew, were altered to sergeant and flight sergeant.
On 28 Dec 50 I broke my right wrist and returned to base from Cosford hospital having convinced the surgeon that I would be OK to continue flying training with my arm in plaster. I asked him to confirm this in writing, which he did, so the first couple of months on the Harvard I flew like that. The instructors were sceptical but it didn't really inconvenience me apart from being unable to join the rest of the flight for rifle drill. On my last RAFVR(T) medical in 1991 I asked the doc if it was still in my medical file. It was and she was amazed that such things had been permitted.
Report Padgate 28/11/49, uniform issue, then off to Hornchurch for pilot selection, back to Padgate to wait for result and then sew on cadet pilot insignia (what?) go to Driffield for a few days, home for Christmas and report to Wittering for ITS. Move to Jurby after Easter for further six weeks, then off to Tern Hill to fly Prentices and Harvards. Some were trained on Balliols but not my course. One guy was taken to Driffield to convert to Vampire T11 to see if it was feasible but he returned after ten hours or so and continued with the course. NS increased from 18 months to 2 years in 1951. Originally course was aimed to get "wings" before demob, but with extended time those selected for jets went to Valley for AFS on Meteors for dual, Vampire 1s and 5s for solo. Others did AFS on either Wellingtons or Mosquitos. Then to Chivenor for OCU and "out". Before being accepted for training one agreed to do 5 years in either RAFVR (Chipmunks & Tigers) or RAux AF squadron. Incidentally, we had become "officer cadet pilot 4s" on the Harvard stage and on graduation were either commissioned or became sergeant pilots. Subsequent courses were APOs. Throughout the Tern Hill phase we wore officer cadet uniforms and lived in the OM. I think that in early 1951 the aircrew ranks, apart from master aircrew, were altered to sergeant and flight sergeant.
On 28 Dec 50 I broke my right wrist and returned to base from Cosford hospital having convinced the surgeon that I would be OK to continue flying training with my arm in plaster. I asked him to confirm this in writing, which he did, so the first couple of months on the Harvard I flew like that. The instructors were sceptical but it didn't really inconvenience me apart from being unable to join the rest of the flight for rifle drill. On my last RAFVR(T) medical in 1991 I asked the doc if it was still in my medical file. It was and she was amazed that such things had been permitted.
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Must have been one of the last National Service pilots, starting Nov 56 at Hornchurch then to Cardington to await result of selection, holding on the notorious 'F' Flight[suicides, sickies and possible aircrew], then off to Kirton in Lindsey for no 99 course, by gosh it was cold in January, in April the Cunard ship Media to New York, a rather rough crossing, then onward to London, Ontario to join Canadian NATO course 5701. Chipmunks at Centralia, Harvards at Penhold [Jo Mcarthy the ex Dam Buster was the CI] and T33s at Macdonald, now that was really cold, led to wings. On return was told that there was no longer flying for NS aircrew. Had got to like this flying game so took the easy way out, sold my soul, and retired 37 years later.
Last edited by Art Field; 11th Nov 2007 at 07:33.
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I, too, was a NS pilot in '52 to '54, and finished at 605 Sqn. Our draft went to Canada for 200hr on T6's then 50hrs on Nene-engined T33's. On return we were sent to Valley to do an "acclimatization" course on Vampires. We were significantly better trained than the UK draft, particularly in IF, and the Vampire looked like a museum piece compared to the T-bird.
I was posted to Honiley as an Ops Officer to complete my NS, where the CO invited me to join the Sqn. These were good men, many ex-wartime, who knew their trade. I rejoined in '56 and went to Hunters in Germany, and I wasn't too impressed by that lot.
Flak screens up!
Dick Whittingham
I was posted to Honiley as an Ops Officer to complete my NS, where the CO invited me to join the Sqn. These were good men, many ex-wartime, who knew their trade. I rejoined in '56 and went to Hunters in Germany, and I wasn't too impressed by that lot.
Flak screens up!
Dick Whittingham
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SPEKE
'After leaving the RAF, Norman Tebbit was an Airline Pilot with BOAC for 13 years.
In 1970 he left flying for his career in politics.'
Yes you're right. Sorry, I meant in the RAF
'After leaving the RAF, Norman Tebbit was an Airline Pilot with BOAC for 13 years.
In 1970 he left flying for his career in politics.'
Yes you're right. Sorry, I meant in the RAF
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I joined the RAF in 1962 as a pilot, the last year that any National Servicemen left the service. Quite alot of our instructors had been NS pilots and I seem to remember that they had to agree to three years rather than two if they wnted pilot training.
The speed of training still existed at that time, 4 months at South Cerney, one year at Syerston, six months on the Vampire at Linton on Ouse followed by four months at the OCU on Vulcans (Finningley) and off to IX Squadron. No leave between courses so the total was 25 months from joining to being on a squadron.
ACW
The speed of training still existed at that time, 4 months at South Cerney, one year at Syerston, six months on the Vampire at Linton on Ouse followed by four months at the OCU on Vulcans (Finningley) and off to IX Squadron. No leave between courses so the total was 25 months from joining to being on a squadron.
ACW
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National Service Aircrew
I served as national service aircrew 1951-53.
Called up after deferment to finish a part time mech eng, course. Arrived at Padgate and found that one could apply to be selected as aircrew. Route was Hornchurch for initial selection, RAF Digby for 12 hours grading on Tiger Moths, eventually selected as cadet pilot and send to RAF Burnaston, (Now the Toyota factory). 60 hours on Chipmunks, followed by 120 hours on Oxfords or Harvards, I failed the advanced course owing to not flying my Oxford with sufficient accuracy. I then transferred to a Navigation course at Bishops Court in County Down, finally getting my Nav Brevet six weeks before the end of my 2 years, Personnel were mainly engineering or bank staff who were able to return to better paid jobs than RAF pay at the time, we were only offered 4 year commissions, so nor many signed up as regular air crew. As an aside many of the staff pilots on the NAV course were Czechs and Poles who stayed on after the war.
Called up after deferment to finish a part time mech eng, course. Arrived at Padgate and found that one could apply to be selected as aircrew. Route was Hornchurch for initial selection, RAF Digby for 12 hours grading on Tiger Moths, eventually selected as cadet pilot and send to RAF Burnaston, (Now the Toyota factory). 60 hours on Chipmunks, followed by 120 hours on Oxfords or Harvards, I failed the advanced course owing to not flying my Oxford with sufficient accuracy. I then transferred to a Navigation course at Bishops Court in County Down, finally getting my Nav Brevet six weeks before the end of my 2 years, Personnel were mainly engineering or bank staff who were able to return to better paid jobs than RAF pay at the time, we were only offered 4 year commissions, so nor many signed up as regular air crew. As an aside many of the staff pilots on the NAV course were Czechs and Poles who stayed on after the war.
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Must have been one of the last National Service pilots
I was on (I think 103) at Kirton, completed mid May '57. Last course on which pilots went to Canada, the last navigators had gone two courses earlier. Bit of a bummer that wanted to go to Canada, took 'till '81 to forefil that dream.
Now for a bit of brilliant forward planning. National service aircrew were allocated a new block of service numbers starting with our course commencing 519..... the highest no. I ever saw was 028. That gives about another 70 total n/s aircrew (pilots, navs and AEOs)after Art.
I was 00012 Sir! Stamp, Salute, receive 1 pound (week's pay). 31/6 less tax, nihs and the rest compulsory savings for uniform at the end of the course, that didn't come to 6 quid. Most of which I promptly blew on weekend trip to see the girlfriend in Altringham.
We were significantly better trained than the UK draft
As an aside many of the staff pilots on the NAV course were Czechs and Poles
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For those pilots who think they were better trained in Canada, it wasn't better, just different. On return to UK and N. European wx they were refreshed on I/F. I instructed quite a few including some RCAF guys. Must admit I never could understand the point of teaching the Canuks assymetric in Meteors when they flew Sabres and didn't solo the Meteors. Radio compasses didn't happen in RAF fighters, unlike F86s and Tbirds, QGH/GCAs being the order of the day and we hadn't the luxury of plent of fuel.
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GCA's
Mike
At Honington we had a very long in the tooth air trafficer who had been a founding father of GCA in the UK. As I'm sure you remember, the controller's patter was an integral part of the system much as is a QFI's
Our venerable controller was from the Forest of Dean with the lovely rounded vowels of that area.
He was sent to Denmark to train his Danish counterparts in the system and for years at many a Danish airfield you could hear a Dane saying, " You are sitting noicely ahn the gloidpath, ahn the senterloine. Adjust yore deescent to the correct rate for yore toipe ahv errcraft."
Pity ILS came in really
At Honington we had a very long in the tooth air trafficer who had been a founding father of GCA in the UK. As I'm sure you remember, the controller's patter was an integral part of the system much as is a QFI's
Our venerable controller was from the Forest of Dean with the lovely rounded vowels of that area.
He was sent to Denmark to train his Danish counterparts in the system and for years at many a Danish airfield you could hear a Dane saying, " You are sitting noicely ahn the gloidpath, ahn the senterloine. Adjust yore deescent to the correct rate for yore toipe ahv errcraft."
Pity ILS came in really
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GCAs
At Chivenor in the late fifties, Jack Harrild used to study the Racing Post or some such and his patter on the talkdown always referred to "coming up to the last fence", "passing the four furlong post", and you always knew you were getting a GCA from our real expert.
More GCAs
The previous recollections remind me of another. A very senior Flt Lt ATCO (George Martin, ex-WWII aircrew) was renowned for his expert and slightly non-standard talk-downs on the ACR7d radar at RAF Manby in the early 70s. After pilots confirmed "checks complete, 3 greens", George's usual friendly response was -
"Thank you for your Greens", and continued with the SRA.
However, on one occasion this did prompt the following outburst from a visiting ATCEB member (ATC examiner) - "What is this, a Grocer's store?"
The day passed, and George thankfully didn't change ......
"Thank you for your Greens", and continued with the SRA.
However, on one occasion this did prompt the following outburst from a visiting ATCEB member (ATC examiner) - "What is this, a Grocer's store?"
The day passed, and George thankfully didn't change ......
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My old man joined as NS in '59, went Piston Provost, then Vampire, then Varsity, before being posted to 53 Sqn at Abingdon to fly Beverleys.
One tale of shenanigans involved going to Cyprus, heading off to an establishment where pretty girls sit next to you and want champagne. Being a bit of a green co-pilot, he thought, "Well, how pleasant.." and continued sipped champers and chatting up these young ladies, before being presented with a massive bill which he clearly couldn't pay. Cue surrupticious exit via the toilet window, and a long jog back to Akrotiri via the storm drains at the side of the road for cover, before kipping down in the back of the frame. Seems so little changes in 45 years, apart from steel bars across the toilet window now, of course.
He did about 18 months to 2 years as a Co, and then went off to BEA. He did some VR time turning Chipmunks upside down from White Waltham on 6 AEF, I believe.
One tale of shenanigans involved going to Cyprus, heading off to an establishment where pretty girls sit next to you and want champagne. Being a bit of a green co-pilot, he thought, "Well, how pleasant.." and continued sipped champers and chatting up these young ladies, before being presented with a massive bill which he clearly couldn't pay. Cue surrupticious exit via the toilet window, and a long jog back to Akrotiri via the storm drains at the side of the road for cover, before kipping down in the back of the frame. Seems so little changes in 45 years, apart from steel bars across the toilet window now, of course.
He did about 18 months to 2 years as a Co, and then went off to BEA. He did some VR time turning Chipmunks upside down from White Waltham on 6 AEF, I believe.
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RAF Polish &Czech pilots.
Further to comments on Czech & Polish pilots after the war. It was interesting to hear a Czech Flt Lt (my pilot) arguing in very broken English with French ATC also in very broken English on an overseas Nav training flight.
Also the culture shock on visiting the French Air Force at Istre and seeing the French erks refueling while smoking, and finding red wine on the table for lunch in aircrew mess.
Also the culture shock on visiting the French Air Force at Istre and seeing the French erks refueling while smoking, and finding red wine on the table for lunch in aircrew mess.
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And then there was the Czech QFI on a check ride with the CFS trapper who got to takeoff without, apparently, doing any checks at all.
Trapper: You haven't done any checks!
QFI: What you mean?
Trapper: Your TAFFIOHH
QFI: (Swinging onto the runway and opening up) OK, taffyo and off we go!
Dick
Trapper: You haven't done any checks!
QFI: What you mean?
Trapper: Your TAFFIOHH
QFI: (Swinging onto the runway and opening up) OK, taffyo and off we go!
Dick
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Honington ,57 to 59.Wonder if the venerable ATCO was the same one?
"now 4 furlongs from HM runway,nother nob of coal and a puff of smoke and youll be back on the glidepath"
strangely reassurring,if things were going tits up!! but I heard he eventually fell foul of the ATCEB, his soft brogue was never to be heard after their visit
"now 4 furlongs from HM runway,nother nob of coal and a puff of smoke and youll be back on the glidepath"
strangely reassurring,if things were going tits up!! but I heard he eventually fell foul of the ATCEB, his soft brogue was never to be heard after their visit
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National Service Pilots
Back in '49 I used to read "Flight" and "The Aeroplane" in the local library and saw that 200 N/S pilots were to be trained each year so I went to the RAF recruiting office in Ealing Broadway and expressed my interest. I did some basic selection tests and when three months later I was called up and got to Padgate was put straight into a group intended to go to Hornchurch. No idea if that figure was achieved or if it it meant 200 started training or finished training each year. In the early years N/S guys only trained in UK but a fair percentage of my ITS course went to Rhodesia.
At No 1 ITS Wittering on Station Parades each Saturday morning aircrew cadets wore leather flying helmets with the "long lead" tucked into a greatcoat pocket. Apparently the FTSs had complained that their studes took too long to become acclimatised to wearing them. Needless to say the result was a shambles as you couldn't hear the words of command. And all for 4 shillings a day which after deductions became £1-5s-0 weekly. I seem to remember that when we got to FTS it rose to 5 shillings daily. The guys on regular engagements were paid more.
At No 1 ITS Wittering on Station Parades each Saturday morning aircrew cadets wore leather flying helmets with the "long lead" tucked into a greatcoat pocket. Apparently the FTSs had complained that their studes took too long to become acclimatised to wearing them. Needless to say the result was a shambles as you couldn't hear the words of command. And all for 4 shillings a day which after deductions became £1-5s-0 weekly. I seem to remember that when we got to FTS it rose to 5 shillings daily. The guys on regular engagements were paid more.
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Dick, we had a QFI on 29 who was an ex trapper, and he was somewhat annoyed to be chosen for a check ride when the trappers arrived on a routine visit.
They taxi out in a Mk7 and roll on to the runway without a word having been said since signing the authorisation book, so the trapper in the back said "how about some checks Fred" ?
Fred replied "fuel and noise" and away he went.
They failed him.
They taxi out in a Mk7 and roll on to the runway without a word having been said since signing the authorisation book, so the trapper in the back said "how about some checks Fred" ?
Fred replied "fuel and noise" and away he went.
They failed him.
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Polish and Czech aircrew
I remember when the AAU was at Innsworth and there were a large number of Polish, Czech, and other assorted nationalties aircrew kicking their heels whilst waiting for their future to be decided. There was only one Pay Clerk who could cope with their names, if he was away chaos ensued, often the the paying officer would ask them to point to their name in the ledger and pay them accordingly.