RN aircraft carrier to head for the Gulf
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Only the USN travels first class these days our guys and gals end up in steerage.
Granted we dont have a 8 ship + sub accompanying force ........
However I feel Nostrinian is being overly pessimistic, what actually happened to a CVS in 98 and 99 in the Gulf? I was in the Gulf in 98 on a CVS and it was quite quiet. A bit of Southern Watch for the jets as I recall.
Oggin
Suspicion breeds confidence
Oggin, I wasn't really referring to mess deck arrangements, just the general capability provided. I did get to spend a few days on the Winston Churchill not that long ago and I found it more than comparable to a T42 - except one 
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Could not agree more, but "on the"? sorry I know this is for aviators, but still!
PS I supose you mean USS Winston S Churchill not the Tall Ship of the same name. (Sold in 2000, though she is out there somewhere!)
Don't worry I'll get back in my box!
PS this lot might think a T42 is a small american aeroplane (Beech Baron). Or even a tank and not one of the finest classes of small helicopter operating platform ever built.
PS I supose you mean USS Winston S Churchill not the Tall Ship of the same name. (Sold in 2000, though she is out there somewhere!)
Don't worry I'll get back in my box!
PS this lot might think a T42 is a small american aeroplane (Beech Baron). Or even a tank and not one of the finest classes of small helicopter operating platform ever built.
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Sorry guys, I'm having difficulty getting to grips with what the issues are here. First, a ship is going to the Gulf to do a routine exercise. No issues there are there? Second, the harrier force is being run ragged in Afghanistan and so doesn't have the capacity to put any jets on the ship. Well, those sort of priority choices go along with being overtasked. Third, the SHAR was retired several years ago so the UK couldn't put any on the ship anyway, and why would they need to in an area of known allied air supremacy? What's so scary about being on a carrier (which we keep getting assured is well defended against missile attack etc) that doesn't apply equally to being on a T23 or T42?
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OA,
I'm honestly not trying to score any cheap points, or open any interservice spats but...can someone explain (either on this thread or via a private message) exactly why putting about 8 Harriers in the Stan means that the Harrier Force is 'run ragged'? There is a fairly substantial fleet of aircraft and the improved support arrangements should be generating more aircraft to the front line.
This actually equates to deploying a squadron, and we have three gusting four. So, where is the stretch? Grateful for any explanations...
Engines
I'm honestly not trying to score any cheap points, or open any interservice spats but...can someone explain (either on this thread or via a private message) exactly why putting about 8 Harriers in the Stan means that the Harrier Force is 'run ragged'? There is a fairly substantial fleet of aircraft and the improved support arrangements should be generating more aircraft to the front line.
This actually equates to deploying a squadron, and we have three gusting four. So, where is the stretch? Grateful for any explanations...
Engines
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Which OA?
If the OA you were asking is me (probably not!) all I'll say is force generation is like a pyramid - you need a solid base at home to provide the capability on the front line - JFH are massively busy supporting Herrick, both there itself and back at Cott, and they are doing an awesome job, imho.
Btw the Naval Strike Wing are now out there - thoughts with them at the moment (particulary this weekend) as they were with "Happy" IV recently.
Oggin
Btw the Naval Strike Wing are now out there - thoughts with them at the moment (particulary this weekend) as they were with "Happy" IV recently.
Oggin
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So they getting a carrier in place now, in a few weeks time they will announce a few squadrons of Tornadoes to Bahrain next year for an excerscise, then they will increase the det of 10s out there blah blah blah , all there just in time for the new american 3rd fleet to arrive , i guess i best put some leave in then as thats the date we prolly going in !!! heheh or am i just been cynical !!! 
I guess im mybe wrong , there is no Typhoons there so there is no way we can win a war , after all the Typhoon is the only aircraft in the RAF (according to all 2* above )
I guess im mybe wrong , there is no Typhoons there so there is no way we can win a war , after all the Typhoon is the only aircraft in the RAF (according to all 2* above )
This deployment is very much a non story. Likewise the shortage of carrier capable fixed wing aircraft post Sea Jet is not exactly news. Hopefully the situation will improve when the Typhoon takes over the Herrick commitment.
But Illustrious will not just carry Harriers. See here.
The RN's 814 NAS maritime attack squadron will deploy its six AgustaWestland EH101 Merlin HM1 helicopters aboard the aircraft carrier HMS Illustrious next January, marking the service's largest embarked deployment of the type.
"This is the first time we will get six [Merlin] aircraft to sea in a single platform, and it will test the capability," says Merlin force commander Cdr Steve Murray.
In advance of its deployment to the Gulf region, 814 NAS will soon begin working up on HMS Illustrious, with crews to hone their skills in the Merlin's core role of anti-submarine warfare in the North Atlantic. However, the sonar-equipped aircraft can also have its role adjusted within 2h to carry up to 11 fully equipped troops or eight stretchers. "Gone are the days when you can focus on a single role," says Murray.
The 814 NAS returned to RNAS Culdrose in Cornwall in mid-August, following a 15-month tour of duty that culminated with the unit performing maritime monitoring operations in the Gulf region, operating from the Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessel RFA Fort Victoria.
The deployed Merlins are expected to carry L-3 Wescam MX-15 electro-optical/infrared sensors to assist in their surveillance operations, which navy sources suggest could include monitoring movements by Iranian submarines.
The aircraft from Culdrose (both Merlin and Sea King) have been spending a lot of time in recent years performing ISTAR roles East of Suez. The war on terror isn't just on land.
But Illustrious will not just carry Harriers. See here.
The RN's 814 NAS maritime attack squadron will deploy its six AgustaWestland EH101 Merlin HM1 helicopters aboard the aircraft carrier HMS Illustrious next January, marking the service's largest embarked deployment of the type.
"This is the first time we will get six [Merlin] aircraft to sea in a single platform, and it will test the capability," says Merlin force commander Cdr Steve Murray.
In advance of its deployment to the Gulf region, 814 NAS will soon begin working up on HMS Illustrious, with crews to hone their skills in the Merlin's core role of anti-submarine warfare in the North Atlantic. However, the sonar-equipped aircraft can also have its role adjusted within 2h to carry up to 11 fully equipped troops or eight stretchers. "Gone are the days when you can focus on a single role," says Murray.
The 814 NAS returned to RNAS Culdrose in Cornwall in mid-August, following a 15-month tour of duty that culminated with the unit performing maritime monitoring operations in the Gulf region, operating from the Royal Fleet Auxiliary vessel RFA Fort Victoria.
The deployed Merlins are expected to carry L-3 Wescam MX-15 electro-optical/infrared sensors to assist in their surveillance operations, which navy sources suggest could include monitoring movements by Iranian submarines.
The aircraft from Culdrose (both Merlin and Sea King) have been spending a lot of time in recent years performing ISTAR roles East of Suez. The war on terror isn't just on land.
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Subs
Well when operation Iranian Freedom kicks off I imagine that the USN would be a little worried that the devilish Iranians might hit one of their CVNs with a sneaky sub. If Lusty just happened to be around at the same time with a deck full of the best ASW helicopters in the world, and was escorted by a T23 with the best anti-submarine sonar in the world that might be very fortunate..... but that would just be a crazy coincidence.
hulahoop 7
The threat to a US CVBG from the Iranian submarines is very probably overemphasised, due to the carrier's escorts and aircraft. However, the threat to merchant (ie oil) shipping is very real. A couple of supertankers being attacked would drive the price of oil up, and cause a very real headache for the international community. In addition to there Kilo class boats the Iranians have small coastal submarines.
In addition to direct torpedo attack, they could lay mines clandestinely via submarine. Iran is thought to have in the order of 3000 mines (according to Jane's), including nasty rising vertical mines.
The threat to a US CVBG from the Iranian submarines is very probably overemphasised, due to the carrier's escorts and aircraft. However, the threat to merchant (ie oil) shipping is very real. A couple of supertankers being attacked would drive the price of oil up, and cause a very real headache for the international community. In addition to there Kilo class boats the Iranians have small coastal submarines.
In addition to direct torpedo attack, they could lay mines clandestinely via submarine. Iran is thought to have in the order of 3000 mines (according to Jane's), including nasty rising vertical mines.
