Are WSO going to change their Brevets?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
There have been several changes of brevet for different categories.
I know many Observers retained the O rather than the more modern N.
I believe commissioned Signallers were given permission to switch to AE and I know one who was a Signaller, posted to an AEO post in the V-Force and made the point that he was not trained as an AEO. He was chopped. In his case there was clearly brevet confusion at the Air Secs.
Apart from the N brevet distinguishing between navigation training and electronics and its retention as an historic badge, there is the sheer faf of changing to a new brevet. The cost, whilst minor, may also be a consideration.
The brevets that were changed were the pilots brevet when the Tudor crown came in. Likewise beret and SD hat badges.
Me? I was trained as a navigator, I have an N, and I shall keep it.
I meant to add that ROs changed to N as soon as they completed the nav course. Also Load Masters - LM used to be Air QuarterMaster - AM (?) but I don't know if many hung on to the old brevet.
I know many Observers retained the O rather than the more modern N.
I believe commissioned Signallers were given permission to switch to AE and I know one who was a Signaller, posted to an AEO post in the V-Force and made the point that he was not trained as an AEO. He was chopped. In his case there was clearly brevet confusion at the Air Secs.
Apart from the N brevet distinguishing between navigation training and electronics and its retention as an historic badge, there is the sheer faf of changing to a new brevet. The cost, whilst minor, may also be a consideration.
The brevets that were changed were the pilots brevet when the Tudor crown came in. Likewise beret and SD hat badges.
Me? I was trained as a navigator, I have an N, and I shall keep it.
I meant to add that ROs changed to N as soon as they completed the nav course. Also Load Masters - LM used to be Air QuarterMaster - AM (?) but I don't know if many hung on to the old brevet.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 29th Oct 2007 at 18:37.
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Apparently the 'Kings Crown' / 'Queens Crown' is not as clear cut as is generally believed, and is born of coincidental timing with Queenies Coronation. In short, one way or another we are eventually in for a gentleman monarchy, unless of cause the PC world demands sexual equality and Anne gets it, which in itself is quite possible, but a man in charge does not mean that the crown must change. As has already been mentioned, we have a Tudor Crown, not a Queens Crown.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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Also Load Masters - LM used to be Air QuarterMaster - AM (?) but I don't know if many hung on to the old brevet.
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Despite the fact that old and bold Navs are eligible to continue wearing the Nav Brevet, you won't have a lot of luck from stores.
I qualified as a Loadmaster a , ahem, few years ago but as soon as this WSOp crap started, the LM brevets dissappeared and if I want a brevet for my No1's (which come with one of the naff WSOp brevets as default), then I end up apying six quid for it.
Beancounters, your end is nigh!
Rant Over
WM Out
I qualified as a Loadmaster a , ahem, few years ago but as soon as this WSOp crap started, the LM brevets dissappeared and if I want a brevet for my No1's (which come with one of the naff WSOp brevets as default), then I end up apying six quid for it.
Beancounters, your end is nigh!
Rant Over
WM Out
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Mate, you're well behind the drag curve. The last cse of Navs to be awarded the N brevet was about 480ish - and we're now on cse 504!
There is a gallery of all the old cse badges at Cranwell, I'll go and have a look to get the exact one sometime soon and try to post a photo of the cse badge!
Blunty
There is a gallery of all the old cse badges at Cranwell, I'll go and have a look to get the exact one sometime soon and try to post a photo of the cse badge!
Blunty
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All aircrew (with the obvious exception of pilot) now wear the Generic RAF Brevet as far as the official word is. You can however wear trade specific brevets on your mess dress. This I was told as I left Cranwell.
Also I was told that WSO's going onto some of the tanker aircraft can still wear the 'N' brevet on there flying suit etc. as there aren't any Weapons Systems on board. But the person telling me may have been mistaken.
Hope this helps.
Spam
Also I was told that WSO's going onto some of the tanker aircraft can still wear the 'N' brevet on there flying suit etc. as there aren't any Weapons Systems on board. But the person telling me may have been mistaken.
Hope this helps.
Spam
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Spam, I have never heard that and I get shed loads of bumf across my desk before it is filed neatly in the round filing cabinet.
Could be wrong but it breaks the traditions. I have the N brevet. I have a couple of spares too!
Could be wrong but it breaks the traditions. I have the N brevet. I have a couple of spares too!
Gentleman Aviator
Apparently the 'Kings Crown' / 'Queens Crown' is not as clear cut as is generally believed
I'll try and find some pictures to illustrate it.
'Spose we'll have to wait until Charles III (or possibly George VII) gets in......
Edited to add VC piccy - with "Queens' Crown"
The "Crown" issue has been done before, here:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ht=kings+crown
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ht=kings+crown
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AP 1358 Ch 7:
"Note. With effect 1 Apr 03 the range of 5 aircrew brevets for rear crew personnel were replaced by the single rear crew brevet (see below).
Those aircrew who were already qualified to wear old style individual brevets can opt to wear the new brevet or retain the old style but there will be no further provisioning of the current brevet."
So there you have it. There is no compulsion to change to a:
"Note. With effect 1 Apr 03 the range of 5 aircrew brevets for rear crew personnel were replaced by the single rear crew brevet (see below).
Those aircrew who were already qualified to wear old style individual brevets can opt to wear the new brevet or retain the old style but there will be no further provisioning of the current brevet."
So there you have it. There is no compulsion to change to a:
"The monogram ‘RAF’ in drab silk surrounded by a laurel leaf of brown silk, surmounted by a crown with an outspread drab silk wing 2˝" (6.35 cm) long – on dark blue melton cloth. Introduced 1 Apr 03 to replace
Navigator, Air Electronics Officer/Operator, Air Engineer and Air Loadmaster."
Now why should
Navigator, Air Electronics Officer/Operator, Air Engineer and Air Loadmaster."
Now why should
Fighter Controller (FC) wear a badge to show that the are not qualified rear crew? Not all qualified "RAF/" rear crew can navigate, load, engineer, or operate so why is there a need to identify peope who can't rear crew?
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What about linguists? I think you will find there is no mention of linguists in Ch 7 of the AP.
Indeed, I thought that was the point I made above.
Edited to add, all 'navigators' were taught to navigate. True some were streamed fast-jet and did no astro and others were streamed ME and did little FJ work but they were all qualified as navigators and in the fullness of time many would swap from one role to another. True, fewer would swap ME to FJ although lots of Shack rear crew made that transition.
Paperwork wise, instead of being gd/n or nav they must now be WSO(N) which is twice the number of characters and 5 extra keystrokes. Very inefficient.
Edited to add, all 'navigators' were taught to navigate. True some were streamed fast-jet and did no astro and others were streamed ME and did little FJ work but they were all qualified as navigators and in the fullness of time many would swap from one role to another. True, fewer would swap ME to FJ although lots of Shack rear crew made that transition.
Paperwork wise, instead of being gd/n or nav they must now be WSO(N) which is twice the number of characters and 5 extra keystrokes. Very inefficient.
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Accept that it is now Fly(WSO) but nothing else? There are engineers, electronic and loadmaster. All trained differently, do entirely different jobs and all wear the same brevet.
As a founder member of SODCAT (Society of Directional Consultants and Allied Trades), I'm quite glad I don't have to cope with the complications elucidated here.
Good luck to all - and never forget, you're not lost, only temporarily uncertain of position.
airsound
Good luck to all - and never forget, you're not lost, only temporarily uncertain of position.
airsound