Pablo Sacked from MyTravel
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Sacking a pilot for allowing a passenger onto a flightdeck seems a little harsh. It does beg the question as to whether it may have been the final straw - or a convenient excuse to offload a "problem".
Pure speculation - but it smells that way to me.
As for using gear to increase the descent rate - very handy trick in a VC10 when spat out of the airway at Kenet (just south of BZN) at FL14 and in need of a steep descent. It's more comfortable than using the speedbrakes (less buffet).
If memory serves, it's 254 KIAS max for lowering but Vmo/Mmo when down and locked.
Pure speculation - but it smells that way to me.
As for using gear to increase the descent rate - very handy trick in a VC10 when spat out of the airway at Kenet (just south of BZN) at FL14 and in need of a steep descent. It's more comfortable than using the speedbrakes (less buffet).
If memory serves, it's 254 KIAS max for lowering but Vmo/Mmo when down and locked.
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This is a massive over-reaction from My Travel. It was a private charter flight for Gods sake, no body was in any danger. I doubt Blackburn will charter from My Travel again.
Just an observation. I totally disagree with commenting adversley on named people on this site. Many folks who have taken the opportunity to stab Pablo on this thread should be shown the yellow card. Think about it guy's he has probably read this thread, you would't like it would you!!
Just an observation. I totally disagree with commenting adversley on named people on this site. Many folks who have taken the opportunity to stab Pablo on this thread should be shown the yellow card. Think about it guy's he has probably read this thread, you would't like it would you!!
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I strongly agree that the public assassination of a person’s character in this forum is despicable.
I believe that MY TRAVEL had a dilemma once the story emerged and they appear to have gone down the route of least damage to themselves as an Airline operator. This however cost Captain Mason his job.
I’m sure Captain Mason will bounce back from this setback and may even profit from it.
On a slight sidetrack, reading the digs at ‘Sharky’ Ward and Pablo Mason in this forum, is there an 'anti-facial hair' sect at work in here?
I have no issue with our unshaven brethren, however my face will remain a shaven haven as long as Mr. Gillette keeps producing ‘…the best a man can get….’
One of the 2 greatest lines I ever heard in a meeting:
“Just because you’ve got hairs around your lips, there’s no need to act like one!”
I believe that MY TRAVEL had a dilemma once the story emerged and they appear to have gone down the route of least damage to themselves as an Airline operator. This however cost Captain Mason his job.
I’m sure Captain Mason will bounce back from this setback and may even profit from it.
On a slight sidetrack, reading the digs at ‘Sharky’ Ward and Pablo Mason in this forum, is there an 'anti-facial hair' sect at work in here?
I have no issue with our unshaven brethren, however my face will remain a shaven haven as long as Mr. Gillette keeps producing ‘…the best a man can get….’
One of the 2 greatest lines I ever heard in a meeting:
“Just because you’ve got hairs around your lips, there’s no need to act like one!”
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Wigan,
As my old pops used to remind my mother; 'Listen, thou withered hag.. if a beard's good enough for Jesus Christ, its good enough for me.'.
To the matter in hand. Its impossible to speculate on the background, they'll be within their rights to dismiss him instantly if he's guilty (in their view) off gross missconduct. Employment history wil have nothing to do with it, they'll have to follow all manner of 18 point discussion/counselling/faffing about plans etc.
On a personal note, although I've never met the man (I'm sure I would have recognised that 'tache through the lens of an S6/S10), Pablo might have feet of clay, but who doesn't? Here though, is possibly not the right place to potentially defame the man.. it comes across as a bit tasteless. And he might be eccentric ~ but more needed please.
As my old pops used to remind my mother; 'Listen, thou withered hag.. if a beard's good enough for Jesus Christ, its good enough for me.'.
To the matter in hand. Its impossible to speculate on the background, they'll be within their rights to dismiss him instantly if he's guilty (in their view) off gross missconduct. Employment history wil have nothing to do with it, they'll have to follow all manner of 18 point discussion/counselling/faffing about plans etc.
On a personal note, although I've never met the man (I'm sure I would have recognised that 'tache through the lens of an S6/S10), Pablo might have feet of clay, but who doesn't? Here though, is possibly not the right place to potentially defame the man.. it comes across as a bit tasteless. And he might be eccentric ~ but more needed please.
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Posts naming and commenting on persons not in the public eye are apparently not permitted on pprune. Like others however, Capt Mason chose to place his name in the public eye by writing and selling his autobiography. Comments regarding his fame/infamy are therefore fair game IMO.
Fame and/or infamy can make you wealthy and well known. They also have a price and the openly expressed opinions/observations of others are part of that price. If you can’t deal with the repercussions, don’t get infamous and don’t spend the cheques. If you have cultivated a rebel reputation, don’t be surprised when it bites you in the arse with ‘management’.
If you ‘feel’ management overreacted in this case (because neither the protagonists or antagonists here really know):
- Consider the position he put the company in with the authorities by doing what he did.
- Consider what his employment record might already say.
- Consider what they might know about this incident that you don’t.
- Consider the fact that he may not even have a valid license anymore since he violated the law.
Any or all of which may combine to make their action a quite sound decision.
Defending him on the basis of either “that’s a stupid law” or “he’s a nice guy, he signed my book” is irrelevant.
Fame and/or infamy can make you wealthy and well known. They also have a price and the openly expressed opinions/observations of others are part of that price. If you can’t deal with the repercussions, don’t get infamous and don’t spend the cheques. If you have cultivated a rebel reputation, don’t be surprised when it bites you in the arse with ‘management’.
If you ‘feel’ management overreacted in this case (because neither the protagonists or antagonists here really know):
- Consider the position he put the company in with the authorities by doing what he did.
- Consider what his employment record might already say.
- Consider what they might know about this incident that you don’t.
- Consider the fact that he may not even have a valid license anymore since he violated the law.
Any or all of which may combine to make their action a quite sound decision.
Defending him on the basis of either “that’s a stupid law” or “he’s a nice guy, he signed my book” is irrelevant.
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StbdD,
If he has violated company rules, and if he has committed, in their view a gross missconduct, then they are within their rights to sack him and tell folk why. He too, is within his rights to comment publically about it.
But what is different here, is dragging up tales of yore which have no relevance, just to bring the man down.. Be honest, if it wasn't for this particular incident, who would have the balls to start a thread entitled 'Pablo Mason ~ why I always thought he was a twonk'? Similarly I suspect, for the same reasons that no one told him to his face when they worked with him. I laughed at the story of him servicing a car (you should have seen me change the suspension bushes on the Alfa the other week), me and ol' Pablo even got some empathy going there for a moment. He's human, and just because he puts himself on a pedastol by daring to be different and actually having the cheek to (well).. write a book, there's no reason to release the safety catch because he's down (so it seems) on his luck.
I admit that he might have been a complete c#nt at work, I don't know. Is a bomber pilot ideally suited for work in an airliner? I don't know. But so what? Would I have been happy to have been flown by him, knowing that he allowed Robbie Savage into the cockpit? Yes, on both counts. He earned his shilling when he was in uniform, despite the more lurid tales now surfacing and from what I can see, and I know this from working with some of the grandest names in motorsport, that rarely do any of them meet the expectation. But so what? Aren't we all human? In publishing, there's an adage when considering that arguement of 'outing'. Is the tale merely of interest to the public, or is it in the public interest? Here, I suspect, its not even the former.
Cheers.
Al.
If he has violated company rules, and if he has committed, in their view a gross missconduct, then they are within their rights to sack him and tell folk why. He too, is within his rights to comment publically about it.
But what is different here, is dragging up tales of yore which have no relevance, just to bring the man down.. Be honest, if it wasn't for this particular incident, who would have the balls to start a thread entitled 'Pablo Mason ~ why I always thought he was a twonk'? Similarly I suspect, for the same reasons that no one told him to his face when they worked with him. I laughed at the story of him servicing a car (you should have seen me change the suspension bushes on the Alfa the other week), me and ol' Pablo even got some empathy going there for a moment. He's human, and just because he puts himself on a pedastol by daring to be different and actually having the cheek to (well).. write a book, there's no reason to release the safety catch because he's down (so it seems) on his luck.
I admit that he might have been a complete c#nt at work, I don't know. Is a bomber pilot ideally suited for work in an airliner? I don't know. But so what? Would I have been happy to have been flown by him, knowing that he allowed Robbie Savage into the cockpit? Yes, on both counts. He earned his shilling when he was in uniform, despite the more lurid tales now surfacing and from what I can see, and I know this from working with some of the grandest names in motorsport, that rarely do any of them meet the expectation. But so what? Aren't we all human? In publishing, there's an adage when considering that arguement of 'outing'. Is the tale merely of interest to the public, or is it in the public interest? Here, I suspect, its not even the former.
Cheers.
Al.
Will a Muslim terrorist, who is afraid of flying, that does not get access to the flight deck, on Pablo's aircraft, be able to sue him for racial discrimination?
What if Robbie Savage had had a panic attack on seeing how high in the air he was.
There may be a lot of 'What if's' but rules are rules.
What if Robbie Savage had had a panic attack on seeing how high in the air he was.
There may be a lot of 'What if's' but rules are rules.
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Do I think he made an error? Yes. Has he got a leg to stand on? I doubt it.. and you can easily argue 'rightly so'. The airlines need to be seen to be whiter than white. I just don't particularly like chuckling at aftermath of hubris.
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There is a general point here - if you play by the rules, it's VERY hard for anyone who doesn't like you to use these rules to get rid of you for (thinly disguised) personal reasons. Just don't give them the ammo and they can't shoot you.
If you don't like rules, then aviation is probably the wrong place to earn a living!
If you don't like rules, then aviation is probably the wrong place to earn a living!
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Not commenting on the rights or wrong of the individual, but would this have made the press in the same way if it was another (less 'known') pilot? Or a less well known passenger?
Says something about the cult of celebrity that the individual becomes the issue and not the breach of rules.
Says something about the cult of celebrity that the individual becomes the issue and not the breach of rules.
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This is all laughable. People suggesting what if he had a panic attack etc etc. Has there been a case of that before, when cockpit visits were allowed?. The reason cockpit visits are not allowed is to prevent a terrorist threat. Robbie Savage is not a terrorist he is a well known public figure. You should be more worried about the guy you sit next to on every flight. Who is the First Officer?? Flying with BA you can operate for 3 years and never sit with the same person twice. Why trust them and not Robbie Savage, at least most of you know of the celebs, you know nothing of the person sitting next to you, and trust them because they wear a uniform and carry an ID that you can get made in Bangkok for £35. Paranoia is running rife here in the industry. If we got rid of all the PC concerning safety, and profile people to find any similarities with known hijackers from the past we would save a lot of time and effort. Robbie Savage was no threat, it had been discussed with the crew before hand, and everyone said 'yes'.
Pablo has been made a scapegoat!
Pablo has been made a scapegoat!
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Sorry Tigs2, you're getting it all wrong here...
No he hasn't, for the following reason:-
So what? There's a rule that says that passengers may not come up on the Flight Deck. It doesn't say Passengers, (except celebrities), may not come up on the Flight Deck because that would beg the question, at what point does a celebrity become a bona fide celebrity and does the fact that the American flight crew have never heard of the Australian comedian mean that he isn't celebrity enough to come up on the Flight Deck.
Rules are there for a purpose and must be enforced universally and even handedly. In today's litigious climate a company is asking for a costly lawsuit if they allow the rules to be applied arbitrarily. Mason was a representative of the company and, whilst discharging that responsibility, he publicly broke a rule so all could see. As a result, and most probably with other disciplinary issues in his personnel folder, (though this may be arguable because, if like here in America, he is an 'at will' employee then the company can get rid of him for no reason), the company decided to dismiss - as is their right.
As to "slagging him off in a public forum", while I haven't gone back and checked for accuracy, it is my impression that stories like 'drunk in NI' and 'the BMW affair' were a response to the 'OMG, he was such a great guy and there was no reason for this' posts. It strikes me that they do show a propensity for... errr... impulsive behaviour... That'll do...
In any case, whether he is a public figure or not, it is not unreasonable to counter arguments for a particular point with actual experiences and, as such, that appears to be what happened here. The fact that, whether it was deliberate at the outset or not, it seems that he has encouraged his public image and as such he becomes fair game for any truth about him, be it beneficial or detrimental. This thread has contained both and I can assure you that, having no clue as to who this man was, I have a much better picture of him now than I did when this thread began. I'd suggest that is a good thing.
Edited for a 'tense' issue... I'm relaxed now though... ;-)
Pablo has been made a scapegoat!
Robbie Savage is not a terrorist he is a well known public figure
Rules are there for a purpose and must be enforced universally and even handedly. In today's litigious climate a company is asking for a costly lawsuit if they allow the rules to be applied arbitrarily. Mason was a representative of the company and, whilst discharging that responsibility, he publicly broke a rule so all could see. As a result, and most probably with other disciplinary issues in his personnel folder, (though this may be arguable because, if like here in America, he is an 'at will' employee then the company can get rid of him for no reason), the company decided to dismiss - as is their right.
As to "slagging him off in a public forum", while I haven't gone back and checked for accuracy, it is my impression that stories like 'drunk in NI' and 'the BMW affair' were a response to the 'OMG, he was such a great guy and there was no reason for this' posts. It strikes me that they do show a propensity for... errr... impulsive behaviour... That'll do...
In any case, whether he is a public figure or not, it is not unreasonable to counter arguments for a particular point with actual experiences and, as such, that appears to be what happened here. The fact that, whether it was deliberate at the outset or not, it seems that he has encouraged his public image and as such he becomes fair game for any truth about him, be it beneficial or detrimental. This thread has contained both and I can assure you that, having no clue as to who this man was, I have a much better picture of him now than I did when this thread began. I'd suggest that is a good thing.
Edited for a 'tense' issue... I'm relaxed now though... ;-)
Last edited by Airborne Aircrew; 9th Oct 2007 at 12:18.
Have you seen Robbie Savage play, he can wind up the best players in the world, he is not exactly the quietest footballer around. That said, he still should not have been given access to the cockpit.
If rules have been broken, then the punishment should fit the crime. If MyTravel back down on this one, then they must back down on any other case of rule breaking, and what is the likelyhood that they will do that?.
If rules have been broken, then the punishment should fit the crime. If MyTravel back down on this one, then they must back down on any other case of rule breaking, and what is the likelyhood that they will do that?.
Last edited by ZH875; 9th Oct 2007 at 14:31.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Future Employment
The bad news is that Pablo has made himself/been made very high profile and public transport carriers will walk away from that, lest he draw unwelcome attention to them. It is quite possible that there are some employers out there, especially in the private sector, who won't be bothered.
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Did Pablo not lower the gear on a MYT 757 at FL370 .78M in order to burn more fuel as not to be over LW at LGW. I heard the aircraft subsequently took a nose dive and was only recovered several thousand feet later? Any more detail's on this. Done well to recover it I heard, and yes, MYT have been far too harsh in their action's, probably because they are shortly being taken to court by another of their captains for another more unfair dismissal, and need to prove some sort of bizare consistancy, another guy who had a character no doubt!
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another guy who had a character no doubt!
It's all very well to have characters... It does not grant them the right to do as they please. I have known many characters in various walks of life and not one was a character simply because he broke rules. Some did, but that wasn't what made them a "character", who they were did that.
"Characters", by their nature, tend to be likable chaps that, by our own nature, causes us to overlook their failings or pass them off as being those quaint little quirks that make him the character he is. The problem is that, by doing so, we are complicit in those failings and, as the character's manager we could be culpable when one of those failings causes an accident. Furthermore, as a "character's" career advances and they learn that they can do, more or less, as they please and become more dangerous rather than less.
lower the gear on a MYT 757