Air forces Monthly Oct issue

[FFP]

I think the phrase is in two parts Jack.
1) Stn Commanders.
2) 87% of Sqn Ldr's approaching their 16/38 point.
Unless you meant to be witty and were playing on the quote

[Brain Potter]

StopStart,

Shouldn't you be up a mountain?

[StopStart]

Been up it yer big ponce. Piece of old ease.

Oh and just to keep it on topic, the state of the air force is terrible etc etc.

[South Bound]

The thing that makes me worry about all of this is that no-one actually seems to mind that people are PVR'ing or leaving in droves at their ORD. I am not expecting anyone to ask me to stay, or even to care about my motivation to go (or lack of motivation to stay), but by losing the experience that we are and solving the problem by promoting early we are putting less experienced personnel into key appointments.

Not saying they are less capable or not ready, just that they are less ready than they used to be. Controversial view (and the RAF would argue that the standard is acceptable or that they are recognising potential earlier), but in my view this must lead to a less experienced RAF, one less well prepared for what HMG might throw at it.

[Regie Mental]

So Jackonicko, what are your thoughts on the article?

[Eye off the ball]

Well, I PVRed at 29 a couple of years ago having been offered promotion and sending back the "regrettably I feel unable to accept" reply to the blue letter. I don't regret it for a minute; my life is immeasurably better now than it would have been in the RAF and, by the sounds of it, PVR is an even more compelling choice now than it was a couple of years ago.
What struck me when I jacked it in though was how disinterested PMA was in addressing some issues I had with staying in. In all likelihood I'd have left anyway but there was no effort made whatsoever to discuss alternatives to the distant tour I'd been offered only 2 months after getting married. My lovely wife has her own career but I was told that sorting that out was my problem.
I was told of my posting which, though a great career move, didn't suit me at that point in my life. When I asked what alternatives were available, I was told it was a good offer and I should accept it. This was closely followed by an OOA in Acting Rank which must have done little to serve Air Force interests but did much to reinforce my long considered decision to leave. Months after PVRing, some geographically more attractive, flying jobs miraculously materialised but I had psychologically 'moved on' and airline jobs were looking increasingly attractive.
I completely understand why so many are choosing to move on as I did, but it still amazes me that the RAF, and perhaps the military in general, make so little effort to hang to those in whom they've invested large amounts of money.

[South Bound]

EOTB

'...but it still amazes me that the RAF, and perhaps the military in general, make so little effort to hang to those in whom they've invested large amounts of money.'

Totally agree - I am not an aircrew groupie by any stretch of the imagination, but it makes me weep to see all that investment walking out of the Service. As a taxpayer I want the maximum return of service from everyone - letting people leave without trying to motivate them to stay is just barking.

Got offered a job yesterday out of the blue. Without any negotiation £12k a year more than I am on now, with pension to top it up to something comfortable, stable family life and good golf all around. This is the second time that the civilian world has taken an interest in where I am going to be in a couple of years - shame the RAF is unable to do the same thing! Wrong timing for me, but made me smile!

[XV277]

Originally Posted by Regie Mental

So Jackonicko, what are your thoughts on the article?

I think he'll quite like it.......

[Regie Mental]

Do you think so? Now that DOES make a change!

[dallas]

Originally Posted by Eye off the ball

Well, I PVRed at 29 a couple of years ago having been offered promotion and sending back the "regrettably I feel unable to accept" reply to the blue letter. I don't regret it for a minute; my life is immeasurably better now than it would have been in the RAF and, by the sounds of it, PVR is an even more compelling choice now than it was a couple of years ago.
What struck me when I jacked it in though was how disinterested PMA was in addressing some issues I had with staying in. In all likelihood I'd have left anyway but there was no effort made whatsoever to discuss alternatives to the distant tour I'd been offered only 2 months after getting married. My lovely wife has her own career but I was told that sorting that out was my problem.
I was told of my posting which, though a great career move, didn't suit me at that point in my life. When I asked what alternatives were available, I was told it was a good offer and I should accept it. This was closely followed by an OOA in Acting Rank which must have done little to serve Air Force interests but did much to reinforce my long considered decision to leave. Months after PVRing, some geographically more attractive, flying jobs miraculously materialised but I had psychologically 'moved on' and airline jobs were looking increasingly attractive.
I completely understand why so many are choosing to move on as I did, but it still amazes me that the RAF, and perhaps the military in general, make so little effort to hang to those in whom they've invested large amounts of money.

I'm sure this is reflective of many people's experiences. Personally, I find PMA too big and faceless - nobody is seemingly accountable for their screw ups and their management of people too often seems to be last minute and haphazard. Of course JPA hasn't helped whatsoever.

Several people in and around my office have recently been pinged for OOA dets with less than 3 weeks notice - not including courses; these are not new posts! When lead-in times are routinely busted I think we should have a system in place where the person doing the dicking is obliged to explain why they had to do it, to a gp captain or higher, who must then write personally to the individual and explain. It won't fix it, but it will highlight it and has got to be better than the current response of 'not my fcuking problem'.

Also, if PMA are going to 'open doors', why not make information more accessible: publish board results and overseas lists online. On the subject of overseas drafting, we've got to sort out the system so it's not dependent on happening to see a trawl by chance - something old fashioned like 'a list' tends to work when it comes to people planning their lives. We still haven't twigged that some people have commitments outside the Service and perhaps need more than 20mins to decide on a 4yr overseas tour. By all means manage the applicants once you've got them, but don't depend on people checking trawls every day! I even heard some people are busy at work and dread to think what the cumulative effect is of everyone in the RAF theoretically checking publicity bulletins for overseas volunteers every day! Work-time study anyone?

Many of our woes are resultant of unimaginative policies, compounded by thousands of deskbound officers who lack meaningful vision to improve the way we do business. We have created an environment that encourages superficial change and makes sustainable progress TFD, where feedback opportunities are rare, so we don't even know what we think as a force or what we could learn. Bureaucracy is rarely challenged as this is the trade of 'trouble makers', so instead those manning the pumps are regularly subjected to new initiatives that hinder, not help. Most significantly of all however, I feel our contribution to the battlefield - flying - has slipped several places down our priority list.

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by dallas

Many of our woes are resultant of unimaginative policies, compounded by thousands of deskbound officers who lack meaningful vision to improve the way we do business. We have created an environment that encourages superficial change and makes sustainable progress TFD, where feedback opportunities are rare, so we don't even know what we think as a force or what we could learn. Bureaucracy is rarely challenged as this is the trade of 'trouble makers', so instead those manning the pumps are regularly subjected to new initiatives that hinder, not help. Most significantly of all however, I feel our contribution to the battlefield - flying - has slipped several places down our priority list.

Of course you know that thousands is a gross exageration but I would suggest that may be it is the other way around, not enough of them. Also not enough bodies available on the rosters either. When there were even 10000 more the pain would have been a lot less.

With the small numbers available now, when you take out the sick, lame, lazy, special cases such as the staff courses etc etc the pot is pretty empty.

There must be a system though.

How about, as you say, advertise the jobs and you never know, they might even get a number of careerists volunteering.

[insty66]

"...Everywhere I have been during the preparation of this book I have noticed that, although the surroundings do not look too dissimilar, the atmosphere is very different compared with how it used to be..."

"...If the status quo is maintained it will once more be the serving officers and men who have to pay with their lives for the parsimony of the tax paying public, as they had to in 1940. Must the lessons of history be re-learned yet again?"

These words were written not in the last year or so but in the introduction to a book (Encyclopaedia of the Modern Royal Air Force.) by Tony Gander in 1984.

Overstretch is also mentioned then! I wonder what he would write today

[Roland Pulfrew]

Notwithstanding the Sqn Cdrs and the Stn Cdrs (and Dep Cmdt Cranwell), when an Air Officer Commanding PVRs you can guarantee that the writing is on the wall. One wonders how the AFB can still stick to the line "that the Air Force isn't broken"? Are they naive, or stupid, or just ignoring blind fact!!

[Roland Pulfrew]

Good use of "notwithstanding" there Roland. Maybe we could have a sentence with "overarching" next time.

Actually I think you will find that my argument was underpinning the debate. I wan't trying to think out of the box on this one. There was no blue sky thinking just a statement of fact AOC XX Gp has PVRd. I apologise for the the use of notwithstanding it isn't in my Dictionary of Buzzword Bingo. Perhaps you could offer an alternative for "notwithstanding" - wr!!

[Roland Pulfrew]

To every one else - Sorry!!

To 1.4 - good use of the Shift F7 key but I would argue that none of the alternatives that you offer actually replaces my use of notwithstanding - in this case. And it's wcensoredr

[adminblunty]

3 AVM have PVR'd at a Buckinghamshire base this year so far, plus a number of Air Commodores. From what I've seen Loader/Dalton are well aware of the issues, however the RAF is broke and they can't fix the problems without funding. If you think its bad now wait until you see the results of PR08. Ask your Stn Cdr what was said at the Stn Cdrs PR08 brief on 10 Sep 07.

As for PMA, why oh why do we have aircrew as aircrew desk officers at PMA? We've spent a fortune training these guys, why put them behind a desk at PMA? Give the desk officer jobs to HR specialists who know how to manage, develop, nuture and retain personnel. Oh and while we're at it, get rid of the Gp Capts in PMA who've been there for years making a hash of managing the place. Can someone tell me why we have a pilot as Air Secretary? What professional HR qualifications/experience does he have? Would you put a supply officer in charge of a Squadron? No wonder PMA is a shambles.

As for non-aircrew CAS, AOCs ACAS, why not? How many MDs of airlines are pilots? Virgin? Easy Jet Ryan Air? Which is more successfully run Virgin, Easy Jet, Ryan Air or the RAF? Which are growing, which is shrinking?

[adminblunty]

AIDU,
I didn't mention blunties in handbrake house. However, they couldn't do a worse job than the incomptents doing the job at PMA at the moment judging by some of the comments on this site and thread could they? Want to try answering the rest of the questions?

Adminblunty

[[email protected]]

1.4 - so little G yet already on the buffet

[dallas]

Originally Posted by adminblunty

Want to try answering the rest of the questions?

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous post re: unimaginative policies. I am also convinced that funding is only half the problem - we need a fundamental review of how we operate; we need to empower people to feel more like shareholders by doing way more than issuing velcro patches for their [often short notice] OOA dets; we need to vastly improve internal communication so the RAF News isn't the primary means of questioning policy - if we can communicate flight safety, we can do it elsewhere; we need to stop generating guff in place of proper policy and decide on fundamental issues such as whether the RAF's primary role is to provide officers with numerous interesting tours to build their experience, or whether they just might be better employed for longer than 2 years as experts in something rather than nothing!

I have a dream...?

Notwithstanding 1.4G, I also use the word and I'm certainly not invited to meetings where management speak is used. Probably wisely - I tend to get to the point and use English words, so I wouldn't fit in.

[South Bound]

Adminblunty

you are kidding about giving the deskie jobs to adminers, right? Maybe suitably qualified civilians or Retired Officers who can provide continuity in post and considerable experience of what they are asking people to go and do, but please don't force another adminer in to 'manage' my career. I know it is a bind finding developmental jobs for Admin officers (and how else would one grow the skills needed for cushy overseas embassy jobs?), but with the limited deployable role the admin trade has we should be looking to reduce their numbers, not create new empires for them.

As for non-aircrew in key appointments,I suppose the difference is that Richard Branson does not make decisions about putting his crews into life or death situations and it always helps to have some concept of what that feels like if you are going to expect others to follow your direction. Your point about Air Sec is nonsence, you are now suggesting a whole section of the RAF that should be reserved for admin only (as HR professionals ). While this would create the air rank your trade so desparately craves, you are completely missing the point - if I want an HR professional I do not need him/her to be wearing a blue suit!!!! If I want someone that understands what it means to do the job I need someone with some operational credibility, and there are few of those around sat behind desks in handbrake house...

Mmmmmeeeeeeeooooooooowwwwwwwww

SB