Grimweasel

Hear! Hear!
I have to concur. Just a simple message from friends and affected personnel is all that's needed. The gushy, slushy cr@p is best resigned to the condolance book at the funeral if needed not on a thread for military professionals!
Well done all for having the minerals to agree too.

Biggus

I think moggiee was referring to condolence threads in general, rather than the specific one relating to the Gunner. He was trying to partly make a point about the 'Diana-ist' approach to grief, as adopted by people who have no personal knowledge or connection with the person in question.

He has a point to some extent, at least in my opinion.

By the way, what is it about 'rocks' or ex 'rocks' (Al R and Airborne Aircrew I think) that means they are usually insulting people by their second comment on a thread. Between the two of you, you managed to get a previuos thread closed.

Standing by to be insulted. When I grieve, Wednesday was my last involvement with a military funeral, I usually find I am sad, rather than angry.

Romeo Oscar Golf

The mates I am referring to..... most definately. I chose the words carefully and with feeling.

Al R

Biggus,

I'll give you a few days to check and report back about how many threads I've been 'insulting' in. Its fair to say too, that you don't know of my involvement in the 'previous' thread either. And yes, I.. we .. might be different. Not better, just different. We aren't too clever sure.. but we have an esprit de corps and a bond that is articulated in a way you might not understand.

At the risk of sounding like Frank Slade at the end (you either know it or you don't), you should learn to be angry a little more. You might look at things differently.

By the way, 'the Gunner' had a name. Christopher Bridge.

Tigs2

Al R
I think you will find most of us use the term 'Gunner' as a mark of respect and achievement as opposed to calling him SAC or LAC. It is to recognise he was a member of the regiment.

Al R

My post was to Biggus, who clearly didn't have your sentiments in mind. Chris had a name.. given to him. With the greatest of respect, please take a second or two to use it.

Cheers.

groveaviation

moggiee,

brave words. Completely agree.

Airborne Aircrew

I'm going to stand with A|R here... Not just because I'm ex_Regiment myself but because I believe he is right in what he is saying.

I'll start by stating that I am an athiest...

As such, I have to agree with the OP... Some of the stuff put up in the condolences threads can be a little hard to stomach, for me. For some, I'm sure, it's appropriate and right, (not all atheists believe that theism is an evil to be ridiculed and rejected - I actually think that "reasonable" religious beliefs are extremely beneficial to both the society and the individuals within it).

Where A|R is quite right is that no-one, but no-one, can tell him or me how to grieve and what is an appropriate display of said grief. The condolence thread is not a work of art that is there to please all who see it. It is a place where people can place their personal message to the departed. In most cases the family will be utterly unaware of the thread and therefore, whether they are the "target" of the message or not they will, most probably, never see it.

Moggiiie:

I agree with your feelings about what is put in the threads. I too question whether the Britain I once knew has disappeared forever as a result of some of the displays. But your/our job is not to read the individual posts and judge them. It is to pay our respects in a way we feel appropriate and leave.

So... I agree... That I agree... but I disagree... If that makes sense... It does to me...

moggiee

My intention was to stimulate discussion about a topic that (as can be seen from the replies here) many were wary about broaching.

Please note everyone that I intend no lack of respect to anyone (living or dead) nor do I wish to challenge anyone's religious beliefs (other than to say I do not hold any myself).

I did wish to make a couple of points, namely that these condolence threads have become rather gushy and cheesy and also that there is an assumption that religious comments provide comfort, when in fact the effect may be quite the reverse (as I have experienced).

I am surprised, and relieved, to find that I am not on my own here.

Al R and Cpl Plod. I am not telling you how to grieve, just saying that (in my opinion) the wailing and gnashing of teeth is starting to get out of hand. The fact that today is the 10th anniversary of the death of the "Peoples' Princess" is purely coincidental but oddly serendipitous.

Two's in

The real potential for offending everybody is where heartfelt posts of condolencies are interspersed with random opinions of how the deceased might possibly have contributed to his/her own demise via some random act of omission. As I believe was started with the C-130 thread, having a condolencies thread running separately from the second guessers club added a modicum of decorum and avoided too much obvious insensitivity. By the way, for anyone who genuinely doesn't know, Jetblast is a far more appropriate forum for offering whimsical suggestions regarding the presumed marital status of your fellow pruners parents.

vecvechookattack

Crikey - Are you a Medic..? Or maybe you are in the band.

Airborne Aircrew

I understand what you are saying entirely and I don't believe that anyone believes that you meant any disrespect to the living or the dead. As I stated, I agree with your feeling about the content some of the messages. However, as I said a minute ago, your focus with regard to the threads should not be to read them and judge their content but rather to participate if you feel you need to and withdraw. In the same way you seem offended by the "gushing" you need to understand that those who "gush" may be equally offended by your, potentially "throw-away 'RIP Soldier' " comment. (Not to imply that I'm quoting you there).

It's a two way street... In the end it's not a place that anyone should be questioning the display or sentiments of others...

moggiee

Given that there are multiple posts by several forum members on this thread, you'll find that more people have made comment on the condolences thread (myself included) whereas this one has more comments from fewer people.

It does seem to indicate that I have touched a nerve or struck a chord (depending upon your point of view).

Airborne Aircrew

Biggus:

Is it possible that it's condescending and ill advised comments like these that make Rocks respond with, errr... less than appreciative comments.

The funny thing is you chaps employ us to not stand down. You employ us to aggressively defend you. But then, when we exercise that aggressive nature as a result of your sniping you call foul.

Learn to live with that which you have spawned or learn to defend yourselves on your own... It's really not that difficult... Hell, even us Rocks can see it...

Romeo Oscar Golf

For goodness sake guys, get a grip. I did not know Chris, nor did I know the many others who have been killed whilst on active service in the many engagements the military have been invoved in. I do not know the thousands who lost their lives in WW2, nor the thousands in WW1. I stopped counting the number of mates I actually knew, who didn't make it beyond their early 20's, when I run out of fingers and toes to count them- and I had not even got to my first OCU. The fact is that I was, and still consider myself, part of the military family, and as such IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING, that my heart bleeds for every casualty we suffer. I do not feel the need to spell it out each time. However, for those who do feel the need, good on you.
And your point 1.4G?

Al R

Vecve said;

What do you have against RAF medics? I assume that was meant to be a snipe? They do ok in my book.. are there any other trades you'd like to have a pop at?

moggiee

Keep it on topic please, chaps - all fighting to be conducted in private.

groveaviation

Agreed, people have their own way of expressing regret (not sure how much you can genuinely grieve for someone you never met). I'm an old fart, so I'm not that comfortable with condolences threads (not sure what they achieve). But then maybe this is just a PPRUNE/Internet thing and doubt it has any affect on the individuals actually involved in live ops(hope not anyway).

Al R

Mogiee said something about Diana, respecting others (especially him) and other people being different to him and how the grieving is getting out of hand.

So. Before you send one of your special (excuse me) holier than thou, non denominational condolences, do you determine whether the recipient is religious or not, and do you send a nice picture of God on a card as a result?

You haven't? You don't? You wouldn't? Quelle suprise.

Al R

AA said;

Well said, and my last word in this awful thread.

Cheers AA.