QRA q-q-q questions
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If memory serves, a Hunter in Germany was taxying out as spare to join the QRA on the ORP when the hooter went, and he swung onto the runway and took of with the ladder on. I also recall a QRA on a hot day, with a Hunter brought to the "master switch and start button stage" with the hood open. The pilot took off his bonedome and set it up on the windscreen. Scramble went well untill the bits of fibreglass began falling into the cockpit.
Dick W
Dick W
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ORAC I know that crew. To be fair (why?) they were in the mighty FG1 version with only TACAN and an air navigation computer which relied on met winds. Neither were much use in the Iceland Faeroes gap and we were often out of radio range of Polestar or Saxa. Still they did buy beer for many months.
BEags - the only civilised thing about the Vickers Funbus was being able to go for a pee in some comfort. Of course real men could use the bags provided in the F4 even though ones tackle had to make its way through shreddies, long johns, bunny suit, and immersion suit first!! As I said only real men could achieve this.
I know more EO school for me!!
BEags - the only civilised thing about the Vickers Funbus was being able to go for a pee in some comfort. Of course real men could use the bags provided in the F4 even though ones tackle had to make its way through shreddies, long johns, bunny suit, and immersion suit first!! As I said only real men could achieve this.
I know more EO school for me!!
Impiger, old mate, just the thought of having to faff about putting in the seat pin, loosening straps and then fumbling through all those layers just to aim one's tadger (hopefully) into one of those horrid sponge-filled piddle packs was enough to persude one to bottle it until after landing! Mind you, you should have seen the horrible things we had on the mighty Tin Triangle - a football bladder with a metal cup (which could get very cold indeed....) at the 'filling' end.
Anyway, in one's FunBus one could dine splendidly, read the paper, unfurl the Sun calendar for the Sovietski Tovarichs' enjoyment (Sam Fox was a great favourite amongst the Bear B/C crews!) - the chatter on 'that' frequency became very busy when we did that....
Allegedly!
By the way - why do you feel the need to learn more about electro-optics? Were you not a QWI and thus knowledgable beyond mortal belief about all such things?
Anyway, in one's FunBus one could dine splendidly, read the paper, unfurl the Sun calendar for the Sovietski Tovarichs' enjoyment (Sam Fox was a great favourite amongst the Bear B/C crews!) - the chatter on 'that' frequency became very busy when we did that....
Allegedly!
By the way - why do you feel the need to learn more about electro-optics? Were you not a QWI and thus knowledgable beyond mortal belief about all such things?
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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PR
His name was Key. You may have known many of them but he had three first names Mike Oliver Nigel. Did a fair bit of time in the USN too I believe.
J
His name was Key. You may have known many of them but he had three first names Mike Oliver Nigel. Did a fair bit of time in the USN too I believe.
J
Thread Starter
Many historic questions remain.
For example:
Obviously Fighter Command practised QRA on exercise, but when did permanent QRA become a commitment?
Surely Southern Q lasted after 1988 ("About 1988 Coningsby ceased to mount southern Q, and Leeming and Coningsby crews augmented Leuchars crews on QRA at Leuchars.") - do we mean '98?
The current situation shows that, if it does nothing else, one big squadron can sustain a QRA commitment as the F3 unit at Leuchars is doing now.
The rest of the Qs are still on page one, in red......
For example:
Obviously Fighter Command practised QRA on exercise, but when did permanent QRA become a commitment?
Surely Southern Q lasted after 1988 ("About 1988 Coningsby ceased to mount southern Q, and Leeming and Coningsby crews augmented Leuchars crews on QRA at Leuchars.") - do we mean '98?
The current situation shows that, if it does nothing else, one big squadron can sustain a QRA commitment as the F3 unit at Leuchars is doing now.
The rest of the Qs are still on page one, in red......
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Coningsby Q - Easter '88
dum_my
groveaviation
Good Friday, 1988. 29 had taken over Q the day before, Thursday PM - I think at 1400 zulu's. It was a bit of a fcuk-up! The "staish" of the moment, one C C C C C C C C C C C C0^1\\e - there may be one or two additional "C's" in there - had called a "penalty minival" starting on the Monday or Tuesday of that week to finish on the Thursday morning before Easter Grant. C C C C C was really big on his own minivals and generation exercises! That is why 29 were given an extra hour or so to get their aircraft off "exercise" state and onto "Q" state. Minival duly finished approx 1000 zulu's on the Thursday morning and 29 prepped the first of their "Q" aircraft. However, instead of downloading the Flash/Winders from the op loads used during the the minival - very short on training weapons so live loads used - and loading the specially prepped "Q" loads, somone, and I know not whom, decided to tell 29's Armourers to leave the current loads in place and just change the Flash Launcher carts from the solid steel exercise drill items then fitted with the operational "bang" carts from the other sealed box on the back of the "S". Note that the Launcher carts could be replaced without dropping the Flash. 29 duly went on Q with their aircraft "loaded for Bear". First Q went off, I think, mid-morning on Good Friday, and as Dum_my stated, their target sent the message back that it had an F3 close by and would the other comrades like to come on down. They did. 29 used most of their aircraft that weekend, plus some from 5, which had just reformed but were not yet declared, as well as two or three aircraft from 229.
Where was the fcuk-up? The squadron armourers were told to leave the current loads on and to replace the drill launcher carts with the live ones from the other box on the "S" Type. They did, dut they didn't change the Flash LMFC's - the Flash would have had to be dropped off the launcher to replace them, about a 20 minute job per aircraft.
We did not have any "Blue" Flash LMFC's at that time - we had "White and Red" ones for that purpose. Those who know about the White and Red LMFC's will recognise the significance...
While visiting 29 Sqn in 1990, I got chatting to the groundcrew, many of whom had been there when it reformed with the F3 in 1987. Dunno if this is an urban myth, but this is what they said:
In late 1987 (or early-88, not sure when), 29 Sqn assumed SQRA with the Tornado F3 for the first time. The groundcrew seemed to remember that the Sqn took over Q as scheduled on a Friday. Within a few hours a Bear appeared on a routine patrol, which they duly visited.
Unsurprisingly, the Bear told his all mates about this new Tornado thingy. All the other Bears came over for a look as well, and over the course of the weekend 29 Sqn launched Q so many times that they used up every one of their aircraft, and eventually borrowed several OCU assets as well.
In late 1987 (or early-88, not sure when), 29 Sqn assumed SQRA with the Tornado F3 for the first time. The groundcrew seemed to remember that the Sqn took over Q as scheduled on a Friday. Within a few hours a Bear appeared on a routine patrol, which they duly visited.
Unsurprisingly, the Bear told his all mates about this new Tornado thingy. All the other Bears came over for a look as well, and over the course of the weekend 29 Sqn launched Q so many times that they used up every one of their aircraft, and eventually borrowed several OCU assets as well.
The F3 story has a ring of truth to it, although probably more coincidenatl with a big exercise, like JMC. There has been the odd ocassion when the Soviets went for a big push and stretched QRA significantly.
Where was the fcuk-up? The squadron armourers were told to leave the current loads on and to replace the drill launcher carts with the live ones from the other box on the "S" Type. They did, dut they didn't change the Flash LMFC's - the Flash would have had to be dropped off the launcher to replace them, about a 20 minute job per aircraft.
We did not have any "Blue" Flash LMFC's at that time - we had "White and Red" ones for that purpose. Those who know about the White and Red LMFC's will recognise the significance...
Jacko
Here is some interesting info for you...
FighterControl • Home to the Military Aviation Enthusiast • View topic - NATO QRA Alert numbers released
Here's a pic from the "other end" of QRA business in 2007...
Rumour has it that we were busy again this month with the obligatory Norwegian and British reception party - good job we're winding up capabilities to fight "THE" war everyone who's dressed in brown keeps going on about!
See here for more ... Russian bombers complete Arctic patrol mission | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire
By the way they were not B-45s (subtract 42 and change the "B" for an "F"!) - allegedly
The B Word
Here is some interesting info for you...
FighterControl • Home to the Military Aviation Enthusiast • View topic - NATO QRA Alert numbers released
Here's a pic from the "other end" of QRA business in 2007...
Rumour has it that we were busy again this month with the obligatory Norwegian and British reception party - good job we're winding up capabilities to fight "THE" war everyone who's dressed in brown keeps going on about!
See here for more ... Russian bombers complete Arctic patrol mission | Top Russian news and analysis online | 'RIA Novosti' newswire
By the way they were not B-45s (subtract 42 and change the "B" for an "F"!) - allegedly
The B Word
PS. Here's a headline "Russia could double number of bombers on strategic patrols"!!!
Here's the link
Russia could double number of bombers on strategic patrols | Air Force News at Defense Talk
Here's the link
Russia could double number of bombers on strategic patrols | Air Force News at Defense Talk
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The first exercise that C4 called was a crash disaster exercise. No need of a crash, it was a full blown disaster. Then I think thee may have been a taceval which sort of went the same way. MBE had gone 100% on fighting a hardened station in chemical conditions and completely ignored nuclear. Of course the next taceval was nuclear ..............
MBE then got his comeupance as C4 got promoted and MBE got posted as a Gp Capt as his deputy. There is some justice in this world.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Originally Posted by Impiger
As I said only real men could achieve this.
) was 'Eric the Irish'.
The rest of us developed very Long Lasting Bladders (or temporarily warm feet inside the goon suit boots) - the LLB is still LL even after all those decades.
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C4
PN - I was not aware of the alleged short-comings, or otherwise, of MBE. That was before my time. I didn't arrive back at Big C until the week of the "great storm" of the previous October - or was it the "big wind"?
What I do know is that that "penalty minival" compromised 29's operational capability on their first "few" Q sorties - due to decisions taken in the WOC during the later stages of that exercise...
Apologies for thread drift. PN, I'll send you a PM.
What I do know is that that "penalty minival" compromised 29's operational capability on their first "few" Q sorties - due to decisions taken in the WOC during the later stages of that exercise...
Apologies for thread drift. PN, I'll send you a PM.
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Those days, of course, Pontius, CC and MBE were two of the biggest obstacles in the path of those who knew the difference between the F3 and a fighter and were trying hard to get the air marshalls attention to the fact that much more work and money was needed to sort the weapons system out.
That this was finally achieved is a tribute to the individuals who risked their careers to overcome these two obstructionists who had both been involved in the procurement of a 'pup'.
That this was finally achieved is a tribute to the individuals who risked their careers to overcome these two obstructionists who had both been involved in the procurement of a 'pup'.
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Tornado ADV (F2 & F3) Weapon System/AI24 Radar Development
Perhaps the true and complete story about the introduction to service of the Tornado ADV (first as the F2 and then as the F3), together with the capabilities of the 'Y' list AI24 radar in the F2, then the 'Z' list AI24 in F3 will get told one day?? (By the people who actually 'stood up and were counted'/had their careers destroyed....................).
The amount of sterling work that went into ASR395 (Final Definition) Stage 1/Stage 2 AI24 radar development, JTIDS fit, various chaff & flare fits, AMRAAM and ASRAAM integration, LINS (laser IN/GPS)MMS, EW, radio and IFF updates to the Tornado F3 was truly staggering.
Free Vortex
The amount of sterling work that went into ASR395 (Final Definition) Stage 1/Stage 2 AI24 radar development, JTIDS fit, various chaff & flare fits, AMRAAM and ASRAAM integration, LINS (laser IN/GPS)MMS, EW, radio and IFF updates to the Tornado F3 was truly staggering.
Free Vortex
