Pensionable flying pay?

[PingDit]

I remember some years ago, a few RAF aircrew guys attempting to take the MoD to task over the lack of pension to cover the flying pay element of our salary. The pension rules state quite clearly that if any element of your pay is paid on a REGULAR basis, it is deemed to be pensionable. Did anyone ever make any progress in this direction? They must owe us millions!

[FFP]

Here we go again.....

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Ping, you forget that the MOD doesn't actually care about the "rules" in the slightest..... anyone ever signed a contract to work for them?

[LFFC]

PingDit,

Yes, you're right, this has been asked many times before. This is the way to look at it; flying pay is pensionable, but the MoD chooses not to make contributions on your behalf for that component of your pay. That's one of the main reasons why few pilots want to stay in the Career Spine!

However, you're quite at liberty to make contributions yourself, and there are lots of companies that will help you make Additional Voluntary Contributions (AVCs) based on your flying pay.

But be warned, if you pay into AVCs until you are, say, 40 years old, join the Professional Aircrew Spine and then take a full pension based on that pay (on which the MoD makes a full contribution), the tax man might decide that you have too big a total pension when you finally retire. So the general rule is to take professional advice.

[PingDit]

Sorry peeps,
Didn't realise that this subject has been raised before - I'm new to the site. However, in answer to a couple of the replies;
1. It's not a choice from the MoD's point of view whether they make contributions for that element of your pay or not. It's a point of law.
2. I am professional advice. I'm qualified up to Financial Planning Certificate 3 (FPC3) which encompasses pension law.
The reason for my question is to find out whether anyone had yet succeeded in receiving this element of their pay into their pension payments. I'm leaving in 2009. Worth a fight do you think?

[Elmlea]

Last time I heard the subject raised, it was mentioned that flying pay's an allowance rather than part of your salary. Is that actually true?

[GalleyTeapot]

As far as I understand it flying pay is classed as additional specialist pay, in the same way that submarine or parachute pay is. Its therefore not an allowance as such, but a regular part of pay. Its supposed to be a retention and recruiting aid!

[buoy15]

The thrust of the arguement was, if it's taxable income, which flying pay (additional pay) was, then it must be pensionable - MoD and Treasury refused to entertain this basic premis
A very few Snr O's employed QC's and got out of court settlements
The SIntO at ISK, circa 1984, pushed hard on this reckoning on £25k+ due to him, although through tax rules, he could probably only go back 7 yrs
The MoD saw a major problem and fought it to stall it
A Nav pal at the same, Steve Rooke (RIP), also fought this and was pulled aside and told to stop making waves or else!
Now with Spined and Spineless aircrew there is no flg pay, as it's additional pay (always was) which is included with basic pay, so it's all taxable and all pensionable
Everyone is now better off except those that left earlier

[Yellow Sun]

I was one of those who contributed financially to the group organised by Paul Wesson to obtain Counsel's Opinion in 1997. The bottom line was that we didn't have a viable case. To quote the counsel retained, Anthony Peto:
"I am afraid that there is no basis at all in law for a legal challenge to the current pension rules in so far as they relate to the relative retired pay of specialist aircrew and other flying officers"

There were all sorts of rumours about out of court settlements arrived at by individuals. This was categorically denied by MoD and in the light of the Opinion we received would seem unlikely. If anyone cares to file an FoI request on the matter and prove me wrong I should be very interested to read the response.

The system has obviously changed significantly since those days and so has legislation.
YS

[Wensleydale]

Rumour and hearsay is that the MOD settled out of court for a couple of really big claims by Spec Aircrew to avoid a precedent being set of having either a huge rise in the bill for pensions or the tax man having to pay back 40% of flying pay for the last 7 years! The result is the Professional Aviator Spine in which the recipient no longer receives flying pay but is paid an enhanced salary. Once again this does not set a precedent for paying out back taxes or a pension including flying pay (its not a bad pension though provided you stick out for your full term).

I reiterate that the out of court bit is just a rumour, however bearing in mind the name of this site......


PS. Yellow Sun added his experience while I was typing my snippet. I bow to his experience and acknowledge that the rumours certainly did circulate! Its a good story tho!

[D-IFF_ident]

Is it that tim of year already?

IIRC - many people put money into fund for representation - advice was sought - people got answers - some got refunds - all are sworn to secrecy about the results.

Nobody who didn't put money in knows the outcome, but there might be some European regulation relevant even if there isn't a UK law that covers us/you.

Try here, and maybe contact the individual, on the off-chance he might know somebody involved in the original project:

http://www.votewesson.co.uk/



Disclaimer - Dear DGMC, please may I post this post?

[Lionel Lion]

I can't believe that Chiseller Wesson is still trying for political orifice.........
For those ex VC10
VOTE FOR BIG NORM!!! see the link in Wessons page - A real political bruiser (Beagle - didn't he ahem - have a minor fracas with Scoff many moons ago iirc??)