Missapropriation of RAF Equipment

[MightyHunter AGE]

As has been said here already this is not a new thing, this has happened for several years where I have served.

Some points on here are valid but I would point out that NVQ assessors are actually there as part and parcel of the young guys gaining their promotion as this is now a pre-requisite, are you advocating that they do not do this NVQ part so they cant get promoted/trained to become technicians?
Also there are a lot of courses such as QA, H&S that are mandatory requirements in posts to comply with civilian regulations whilst still actually serving in the RAF.

Standing by for the inevitable flack here but these guys aren't using the system for their own benefit i.e. feathering their nests for future employment out with the RAF.

Now if you are not happy with that statement then you obviously only want a perspective that comes from the flying side of the fence.

As always there are the 'you should have stuck in at school' brigade. Why is it you automatically assume that no-one but yourselves are either a. educationally qualified b. capable of being a pilot and c. actually want to fly an aircraft.
Plenty of folk I work with have no desire to fly aircraft but instead have a desire to provide and fix airworthy aircraft and enjoy the challenge of solving malfunctions on new and often complex systems on aircraft.

The above is not a dig in any way and please don't take it as such but there are always two sides to any story and as usual the flying part are the ones who are shouting the loudest........

[Sleeve Wing]

Hello Pontius.
Quote : #15. >What's recent?
I did a couple of IRT practice, land Bedford, pick up IRE, do test, lunch, fly second test, RTB to Bedford and home.
Met Sqn Boss, said just done some more resettlement training. No No he bristled they are not PVRing.
He got back to his office to find the papers on his desk. And that was 17 years ago.< unquote.

Actually a bit longer even than that, P me old ! - 1963 in fact.
FAA mates on 32 Sqn.Comms unit at Northolt used to borrow the Devon, take it up to Stansted etc etc etc. ---SOP. As you say, normal resettlement practice even then.
Rgds, Sleeve.
PS. Just thought of another example, ...... 1972, BZ, '103', (complete with CAA), Park Corner, BHD, St.M. RTB.

[MrBernoulli]

Pops Away Ginger,

Nobber .............

[flyboy007]

By recent, you may mean me. And no, I don't think it was a waste. MCT hours have to be taken; what difference does it make if I get my ATPL rating out of it??

[PingDit]

It's legal, not particularly uncommon and above all, the very least we can do for one of our own!

[psyan]

This sort of thing is as said 'not uncommon' and is not even a new concept. Back in 85 I completed the best part of my licensing with the assistance of military resources with the full knowledge of the system. It's simply training.

[shack]

Well, I did it in 1963 so what's new?

[Mr C Hinecap]

When I said 'bite of the cherry' I was referring to equal availability to such 'perks' across all areas. I have no idea how much such a 'perk' as mentioned would cost if paid for outside as part of the licensing process. If the value of that was made available to the troops, I'd see it as more equal. I'm sure it is a couple of quid and possibly more than anyone else gets as part of their resettlement after 22 yrs service.

[Green Flash]

Well, that seems to have covered the topic. Any questions Ginge?

[Brain Potter]

The resettlement people would not let me claim the IRT fee from my resettlement grant. The reason they gave - it is an exam not a course.

[Pontius Navigator]

BP, odd, I was paid my IOSH.

[Sven Sixtoo]

I'm planing on doing my IRT in a Sea King. Can I claim an hour's flying time in a TriStar and pay for the hour in the SK?

[VinRouge]

The Airforce owes those hours to the crews as part of their MCT allowance, referred to directly in JSP550. So tough. Yes they are entitled, and I would say its the least that they could do bearing in mind the other option is we cost the air force even more by using ELC for Civy IRT schedules. Oh, and the other point that crews are getting yoyo'ed between the two theatres with scant regard to harmony guidelines.

You daft Blunty.

[ZH875]

...AFTER they have PVR'd..

But After PVR and BEFORE termination, they are still in the RAF, and as such, still have their duties to perform, and if those duties include training and currency flights, then they are duty bound to perform them.

What would you prefer PA Ginger, people who have PVR'd just stopping work for the 12 months waiting time, drawing full normal pay, and sitting on their jacksies all day.

Get real.

(I can't believe I am defending aircrew)

[Pops Away Ginger]

To answer several questions and moans here goes:

I am a blunty so what?
Who do you think is in the chain of events that get you airborne, every trade has a part to play however small, you wouldn't get very far without food, fuel and imagine, god forbid, you didn't get paid so don't get on to me about being a 'blunty'

I am not 'green eyed' but am asking a valid point

So far I have seen no reasonable argument for this practice apart from 'we are owed it', isn't everyone owed the same financial equivalent then?

Are these civilians insured and authorized to fly in military aircraft and who actually auths it?

Do you really think that if it wasn't aircrew then this would actually be allowed?

As I have a PPL can I use an RAF aircraft to get my civ quals? No didn't think so....(yes I know i'm not an RAF pilot but I suppose technically I am more qualified actually having a PPL)

Me me me is all I have heard so far and some on here need to grow up.

PAG

[An Teallach]

Pops Wahey Ginger

some on here need to grow up.

Hello Kettle, this is pot ... Message, over!

I'm a former blunty. Why do you begrudge the aircrew proper resettlement training in their own trade? While this forum welcomes all people associated with military aviation, I'd suggest that if you want sympathy for your wee greet, you either post elsewhere than the Professional Pilot's Rumour Network, or look for it in the dictionary somewhere between sh1t and syphillis.

BTW, Ginger: Did your Mammy never tell you? Red and Green should never be seen.

[Ken Scott]

PAG

I'm sorry? Are you implying that having a PPL makes you more qualified than a pilot in the RAF? To quote J McEnroe Esq: 'You cannot be serious!'

I had a PPL before I joined the RAF, & I currently have an ATPL - I believe that outranks your 'qualification'. I doubt I'm alone in the RAF either. Incidently, I did my IRT in a service aircraft, as part of my MCT allowance. I looked at doing it through a civvy flying training school, but that would have involved a couple of weeks away from work and approx £6000 under the Linkup scheme which would have been paid for by the MOD - doing it on my MCT alocation therefore represented good value for the MOD, and I even paid the test fee myself.

I really think you should stop worrying about this, it's a perfectly reasonable thing for people to do with their training time - they're going to burn holes in the sky anyway so who cares if a CAA examiner comes along for the ride?

[VinRouge]

So by that move then we should stop GE's doing their ground civvie engineering exams in theatre and get them back down the line, where they can make themselves useful right? I called you blunt not because you are not aircrew, but because your loaded question is one of the dumbest I have heard in a long while, especially whilst many are going far above and beyond to get the job done in the sandpit. Surely we are all entitled to a little flex to further ourselves, especially when it costs the Air Force bugger all!

[The Rocket]

Could this possibly be Toddbabe finding a new subject to moan and bleat about the commisioned cadre?

[Pontius Navigator]

Originally Posted by Pops Away Ginger

Who do you think is in the chain of events that get you airborne, every trade has a part to play however small, you wouldn't get very far without food, fuel and imagine, god forbid, you didn't get paid so don't get on to me about being a 'blunty'

So far I have seen no reasonable argument for this practice apart from 'we are owed it', isn't everyone owed the same financial equivalent then?

So you don't do any civilian recognised accounting qualifications or a supply and logisitics degree or an MDA etc etc?

Are these civilians insured and authorized to fly in military aircraft and who actually auths it?

yes and yes and the auth. In the case I am aware of it was the sqn cdr.

Do you really think that if it wasn't aircrew then this would actually be allowed?

Of course not. You need to be qualified to use any kit, even JPA, so just because you are a wiz at PPL does not entitle you to get your hands on Betty's toybox.