Massed Lightning takeoff
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
I can state that categorically that an F6 was capable of reaching over 75K. Admittedly, he did state that both engines had flamed out, it was very quiet, and he was slowly tumbling end over end, but still.....
(In the last couple of months before they finished at BK everyone was doing high speed runs and seeing how high they could get. So, OK, if the pressurisation had gone they'd have been dead, but if you wanted to live fore ever, who'd become a Lightning pilot anyway.....)
It also gave me the opportunity to hand over a Lightning to ATC VFR in the dive arc for recovery and, as they accepted control, casually slip in he was VFR above at FL680.
(In the last couple of months before they finished at BK everyone was doing high speed runs and seeing how high they could get. So, OK, if the pressurisation had gone they'd have been dead, but if you wanted to live fore ever, who'd become a Lightning pilot anyway.....)
It also gave me the opportunity to hand over a Lightning to ATC VFR in the dive arc for recovery and, as they accepted control, casually slip in he was VFR above at FL680.
Last edited by ORAC; 25th Jul 2007 at 13:13. Reason: Sp
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Roland Beamont wrote of using nearly all the fuel (down to recovery level) of a Mk 3 in a 7 minute display at Amman in Jordan, for King Hussein. Full reheat was used throughout. I'd like to have seen that! 
Lots of good Lightning stories (many written by Lightning drivers) here.
Lots of good Lightning stories (many written by Lightning drivers) here.
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I was a an ADO [Scopie] at RAF Patrington, from 1965-68. The original mission profile was...Target Identified at 240nm.
Take off [min Re-heat] climb M0.9 til [I think] 30nm short, accelerate to M1.5, turn behind, fire missiles/cannon, then RTB Total time 14 mins....However, I have seen a Mk6 with tanks go Leuchars-Valley-Leuchars 2hrs 10 mins airborne.
Theoretically... according to the Pilots' Notes, given a min r/h t/o, cruise climb to tropopause, shut down no2 engine, and cruise descent..with overwing tanks the range was 3000+ miles 
watp,iktch
Take off [min Re-heat] climb M0.9 til [I think] 30nm short, accelerate to M1.5, turn behind, fire missiles/cannon, then RTB Total time 14 mins....However, I have seen a Mk6 with tanks go Leuchars-Valley-Leuchars 2hrs 10 mins airborne.
Theoretically...
according to the Pilots' Notes, given a min r/h t/o, cruise climb to tropopause, shut down no2 engine, and cruise descent..with overwing tanks the range was 3000+ miles watp,iktch
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Ah! Happy days.....chatting to the DAO at TTTE one evening. Known locally as "Yoda", probably due to his ugliness, this Tornado instructor, (G.R. for those who remember him), when asked, stated he'd easily gone balistic in a Lightning and topped out at "around 90K" before tumbling back down into thicker air.....good memories of him crewing out of an Italian GR1 at Cot, and assualting the student pilot on the way back to the line hut! Special rug reserved for him in front of OC TOCU's desk from what I was told!
A17
A17
Last edited by ATCO17; 26th Jul 2007 at 02:42. Reason: Muscadet!
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Speaking of the proposed 4 x AIM9 fit, I can remember the talk of fitting a Y rail on each stub pylon, but wondered if anyone ever fabricated any, even in mock up, and took any photos? Or was it always just a back of a fag packet wet dream sort of thing?
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Was at STCAAME before they translated it into Welsh and it became the AGWOEU, acting as high speed targets for the trial of AIM9 on the Hawk. We were well pi55ed off that they were looking at AIM9 on the Hawk and not on the Lightning. On a black flag day the armourers nicked one and put it on the Red Top pylon. It rattled a bit so they went to workshops and made a blanking plate to stop the rattle. Plugged in the wiggly amps and coolant to the missile and announced "if you pull the trigger it's going to go!" The rep from CTTO who was there took loads of pictures and eventually got boll**ed by his bosses for daring to even consider the idea! After we brought the ones back from Saudi, they were being touted by BAe with an option for 4 AIM9.
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A fighter without guns is like a broken pencil - pointless
OK, talking of Lightning weapons fits, outside the old S of FC at West Drayton was a Mk 2A Lightning with 6 (yes, 6) 30mm ADENs 
. Now, I know this was a theoretical fit (for the uninitiated, 2 in the upper intake lip [as in all Mk1/2s], 2 instead of the Firestreak packs and 2 in the front end of the ‘Mk 6’ bellytank) but was it ever an Operational configuration? And was it ever test fired? If so, what happened to the Target?! Should’ve been pretty well 'sprinkled'- any trials or APC video of such an event?
. Now, I know this was a theoretical fit (for the uninitiated, 2 in the upper intake lip [as in all Mk1/2s], 2 instead of the Firestreak packs and 2 in the front end of the ‘Mk 6’ bellytank) but was it ever an Operational configuration? And was it ever test fired? If so, what happened to the Target?! Should’ve been pretty well 'sprinkled'- any trials or APC video of such an event?
Originally Posted by Downwind.Maddl-Land
OK, talking of Lightning weapons fits, outside the old S of FC at West Drayton was a Mk 2A Lightning with 6 (yes, 6) 30mm ADENs .
The Lightning that used to be outside West Drayton ATC wasn't an F.2A it was F.2 XN769, and was at the time of it's scrapping the last complete F.2 that hadn't been modded to F.2A standard.
So, it can't have had the extra 2 x Aden in the forward belly tank as F.2's had the F.1/F.3 small ventral tank.
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That's why I thought it was a '2A - it did have the enlarged ventral tank with 2 x 30's in the front end a la Mk 6.
Dog Tired
Ok, ok.
Frightenings very impressive but, to get back to the original Q:
The second trip at Coningsby in the F4 conversion course was a (once only) clean wing take-off, keep 360 kts after the wheels are up and pull to the vertical. Get to about 40K feet and then go down and land.
Excellent.
That was thirty-five years ago.
F15/16? Are you joking?
Frightenings very impressive but, to get back to the original Q:
The second trip at Coningsby in the F4 conversion course was a (once only) clean wing take-off, keep 360 kts after the wheels are up and pull to the vertical. Get to about 40K feet and then go down and land.
Excellent.
That was thirty-five years ago.
F15/16? Are you joking?
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Lightning T/O's
Having just come across this site I found the comments on the Lightning fascinating.
We used to watch in awe as 92 Sqn did their rotations at Geilenkirchen and it was a pleasure to have them as a sister Sqn to 3.
Might I ask how Doug Awlward??, Geoff Denny et al are getting on these days?
Thanks for the nostalgic look back.
We used to watch in awe as 92 Sqn did their rotations at Geilenkirchen and it was a pleasure to have them as a sister Sqn to 3.
Might I ask how Doug Awlward??, Geoff Denny et al are getting on these days?
Thanks for the nostalgic look back.
Originally Posted by Downwind.Maddl-Land
That's why I thought it was a '2A - it did have the enlarged ventral tank with 2 x 30's in the front end a la Mk 6.
What you can see is the 4 x cannon muzzle slots in the upper and lower nose.
When the F.2's were modded to F.2A configuration, it seems that the lower cannon were removed as every photo of RAFG F.2A's I've looked at all have the lower cannon muzzle slots faired over with plate. It would seem therefore that it's very unlikely that the 6-gun fit was ever fitted operationally.
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OK, So I Have Finally Lost The Plot
Well, I am haunted now by my own passion! And publicly embarrassed too. 
I also searched for a photo of the S of FC Gate Guard and the only one I came up with was that posted by Liffy 1M and GeeRam, which is patently a F2. Therefore, I have to concede the issue as the evidence is damning! (In my search I did find a photo of an F2A that appeared to have the 2 x 30s in the ventral tank). http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0701565/L/ (not skilled enough to cut and paste the photo).
However, I now seriously doubt my own sanity – I walked or drove past the W Drayton S of FC airframe from Apr 82 until Apr 86 and which was (at least initially) in pristine condition and looked as though it has just been refurbished and repainted when I joined LATCC. I recall a square fin as well as the large ventral tank, hence my conviction of its identity as a F2A. The thing that made the airframe interesting to me as an aeroplane buff was the unusual armament fit I described in my initial post. Obviously, I was hallucinating; probably too much Caribbean Coke in my previous tour. So, I’ll check-in at the Funny Farm.……..
I also searched for a photo of the S of FC Gate Guard and the only one I came up with was that posted by Liffy 1M and GeeRam, which is patently a F2. Therefore, I have to concede the issue as the evidence is damning! (In my search I did find a photo of an F2A that appeared to have the 2 x 30s in the ventral tank). http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0701565/L/ (not skilled enough to cut and paste the photo).However, I now seriously doubt my own sanity – I walked or drove past the W Drayton S of FC airframe from Apr 82 until Apr 86 and which was (at least initially) in pristine condition and looked as though it has just been refurbished and repainted when I joined LATCC. I recall a square fin as well as the large ventral tank, hence my conviction of its identity as a F2A. The thing that made the airframe interesting to me as an aeroplane buff was the unusual armament fit I described in my initial post. Obviously, I was hallucinating; probably too much Caribbean Coke in my previous tour. So, I’ll check-in at the Funny Farm.……..
I am sure I recall seeing a 6 gun fit on a 2A somewhere. Any 19/92 ETPS/DFS or other WWOLs on here to comment?
Originally Posted by Downwind.Maddl-Land
(In my search I did find a photo of an F2A that appeared to have the 2 x 30s in the ventral tank).
Bear in mind that this is a museum aircraft (retired in the late 70's) and these do get refurbished with non-original parts from time to time, and that belly tank looks very clean compared to the rest of the airframe.....maybe a replacement ventral tank from one of the late 80's/early 90's scrapped F.6's which would have had the forward belly tank 2 30's.......
Note the two F.2 lower nose gun ports blanked off, as per all the in-service F.2A photos I can find showing this. Another reason I suspect this is a replacement F.6 ventral tank fitted at some point by the museum.
Originally Posted by BOAC
I am sure I recall seeing a 6 gun fit on a 2A somewhere.
Had a vague feeling it was a Warton trials aircraft or one of the export fit SBAC publicty photos from the sixties, rather than a RAF sqn service aircraft. Couldn't find it though.....
