Forces problems
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Realising that I might be stirring this up a bit, AVM Loader does have a point since the nature of what we do means that there is a lot more rough than smooth and if we want pathos, then we must not be prima donnas. Probably what Melchett meant was the rampant lack of investment - both moral and financial - in our personnel. I find myself asking the question these days if my Boss is busy looking up for his promotion or looking down upon his troops with empathy. Perhaps it is because the old-fashioned ideal of service has been replaced as a reason for joining the Armed Forces. Previous wars have had a level of public support and interest that has not been realised with operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and the public and also Government are only interested in sensationalism there is no news and hence no interest in the fact that a pair of GR4s performed a 6 hour patrol over Iraq, or a mobile patrol in Afghanistan just returned after 7 days' operations in Helmand. The stupidity of it is that we do a great deal of sensational stuff that appears routine because of the way in which we do it, and in doing so, we cope with shortcomings, but the public and the Government have no interest in our routines and they can always justify a few casualties 'because we knew what we were getting into' as a volunteer force. However, the time is fast aproaching where all the volunteers need to know that we are valued for our ability to cope with the fabled 'train ride to Glasgow', that we are adequately protected when resting between arduous routine duties, that we are adequately equipped to carry out our tasks, that we have the Support Helicopters to deploy, recover and rescue us, that we have Close Air Support and the Air Transport to take us into theatre in a timely fashion and bring us home to those loved ones who have waited so patiently for us to return.
Ultimately, it's not hard - if you want to play in wars then you have to provide the right toys and ensure that your players are prepared, looked after and provided for. It might seem great to politicians to be able to play their real game of Risk from the safety of Whitehall, but it takes more than that to commit to war. It says so much that Gordon has stated all his priorities and we don't feature.
Thoughts?
Ultimately, it's not hard - if you want to play in wars then you have to provide the right toys and ensure that your players are prepared, looked after and provided for. It might seem great to politicians to be able to play their real game of Risk from the safety of Whitehall, but it takes more than that to commit to war. It says so much that Gordon has stated all his priorities and we don't feature.
Thoughts?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
How many times did Gordon Brown mention 'change' when he took over as PM? They are also trying to fight a war whilst remaining on a peacetime footing.
What was evident from the news footage was the presence ONLY of SAR helos. Maybe the armed forces were involved but certainly not shown on the news.
Is the PM now realising that the armed forces might just be his magic bullet?
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Cstall, I see your point, in a way Loader was being brutally honest. But in a week in which 4 servicemen have died from indirect fire, I was trying to show that Loader was making his statement in Basra. We (you) have been there for 4 years. There is still no overhead protection in the majority of accommodation. If Loader stayed the night I can guarantee he wasn't asked to stay under canvas. If all you can offer the troops is an ultimatum to get off the train because things are going to get worse, then really, what the bloody hell does he think people are going to do? Stick around and take your chances in Basra? Trust to luck that you don't get killed by a mortar? When your High Command cannot sort the accommodation out after 4 years of attacks?
Of course, people are going to jump off the train and who can blame them? It doesn't surprise me that troops may come to the conclusion that Iraq is not worth dying for, or that neither is it worth dying for a very senior officer who can offer nothing more than enduring misery.
Of course, people are going to jump off the train and who can blame them? It doesn't surprise me that troops may come to the conclusion that Iraq is not worth dying for, or that neither is it worth dying for a very senior officer who can offer nothing more than enduring misery.
Last edited by nigegilb; 23rd Jul 2007 at 04:55.
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dear all
Fave book at the moment is "Lions, Donkeys and Dinosaurs" which prompted me to question my faith in the countries military. It's a book on the wasteful manner the UK's defence budget is spent. An awesome read
Sent via our sons My Space i suggest the Senior RAF gentleman in question reads it whilst he is in his safe London bunker?
Sent via our sons My Space i suggest the Senior RAF gentleman in question reads it whilst he is in his safe London bunker?
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Fave book at the moment is "Lions, Donkeys and Dinosaurs" which prompted me to question my faith in the countries military. It's a book on the wasteful manner the UK's defence budget is spent. An awesome read
Sent via our sons My Space i suggest the Senior RAF gentleman in question reads it whilst he is in his safe London bunker?
Sent via our sons My Space i suggest the Senior RAF gentleman in question reads it whilst he is in his safe London bunker?
It is possible the book was printed by Axe and Grindstone Publishers Inc.
It is possible the book was printed by Axe and Grindstone Publishers Inc.
Regretably, while LP strikes the nail a glancing blow to the cranium with his broad premise, some of the examples he employs are factually inaccurate or just plain daft; sadly, the examples he uses to berate the RAF are amongst the most wildly incorrect and breathtakingly daft in the whole book - for instance, there is a piece where he claims that the Air Staff are liars about the F3 - it has a gun, therefore how can it not be a dogfighter? A line of logic that will startle any MiG-31 drivers who might read it...
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Nigegilb - I wasn't trying to defend Loader at all, my only fear is that the ill-informed public would ignore our plight if we merely complain about our leadership. The lack of overhead protection is criminal enough when we ask our personnel to spend up to 6 months in that evironment and it is more a case that our seniors are spending their time with their fingers in their ears hopng the problem will go away. We can all cope with a little hardship, but it is the cumulative effects that worry me. Remember we live in a time of spin when it is the image of doing something that is more important to our leaders - both political and military - than actually being able to do something.
Perhaps if Channel 4 ran a Big Brother series in Basra then the public would actually take notice. The public, our leadership and our political masters are so far removed from what we do that we don't feature on their give-a-5hit-ometers.
Perhaps if Channel 4 ran a Big Brother series in Basra then the public would actually take notice. The public, our leadership and our political masters are so far removed from what we do that we don't feature on their give-a-5hit-ometers.
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I was considering the lack of overhead cover in a general sense - I would not wish to speculate on the circumstances of the recent casualties. Basra is now a well-found base, not some hastily established FOB.
