Re-instatement of Military Hospitals
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Military Hospitals
Well no matter how clean they were, they couldn't be any worse than my area's HQ emergency hospital at Redhill, also a total b**tard place to get to at the best of times unless unlucky enough to pull the air ambulance straw, and a very long way from some of its catchment area.
When I had the pleasure of being there a few years ago I found unchanged sheets with bloodstains, used dressings under the bed, only 1 w/c working for hundreds of people, old ladies stowed away in beds under windows that wouldn't shut ( it was literally freezing outside ) - and just to cap off the atmosphere the lady next to me, a friend of a good friend of mine, expired next to me as she'd been delayed too long by the Doctors getting her there !
A very practical example of military hospitals - Haslar at Gosport.
For anyone who hasn't been to Gosport 'Island' by road, the traffic is atrocious, funnelled into one road on & off which is often at a crawl.
Haslar treated the whole highly populated area, civil & military alike - now, again unless one hits the jackpot to beat the traffic by being badly injured enough to get an air ambulance - or possibly does it at sea to get SAR - it's still the grim environs of Q.A, Portsmouth, where one can queue up with the nuts who have parts of the dodgy nightclub they were smashing up still embedded.
That's from personal experience too - must be more choosy where I break a toe on my boat next time ! If I'd known what was to happen I wouldn't have bothered ( and no I didn't call SAR ! ).
At Chichester nearby, on another occasion my girlfiend received fantastic treatment in a worrying situation and I can't say enough good about St.Richards - so they're trying to close at least the A&E part, meaning people are supposed to drive to Worthing - hang on they're closing that too...
When I had the pleasure of being there a few years ago I found unchanged sheets with bloodstains, used dressings under the bed, only 1 w/c working for hundreds of people, old ladies stowed away in beds under windows that wouldn't shut ( it was literally freezing outside ) - and just to cap off the atmosphere the lady next to me, a friend of a good friend of mine, expired next to me as she'd been delayed too long by the Doctors getting her there !
A very practical example of military hospitals - Haslar at Gosport.
For anyone who hasn't been to Gosport 'Island' by road, the traffic is atrocious, funnelled into one road on & off which is often at a crawl.
Haslar treated the whole highly populated area, civil & military alike - now, again unless one hits the jackpot to beat the traffic by being badly injured enough to get an air ambulance - or possibly does it at sea to get SAR - it's still the grim environs of Q.A, Portsmouth, where one can queue up with the nuts who have parts of the dodgy nightclub they were smashing up still embedded.
That's from personal experience too - must be more choosy where I break a toe on my boat next time ! If I'd known what was to happen I wouldn't have bothered ( and no I didn't call SAR ! ).
At Chichester nearby, on another occasion my girlfiend received fantastic treatment in a worrying situation and I can't say enough good about St.Richards - so they're trying to close at least the A&E part, meaning people are supposed to drive to Worthing - hang on they're closing that too...
Last edited by Double Zero; 22nd Jul 2007 at 12:25.
My mum and my first girlfriend (separate people, lest anyone think that I'm Welsh) both died at Halton, where the care they received was unbelievably good, and where conditions could not have been further removed from those described by vecvechookattack.
Quite apart from the care given to service personnel and dependents, Halton's 'spare capacity' was used by the local NHS, making it a superb resource for the community as well as for the forces.
And as someone pointed out, it's standing empty now, and could be brought back if the money and the will were available.
Pointless selling the land, as it would simply revert to the Rothschilds, with no gain to the exchequer except in tax - and in getting something off the books for the sake of RAB.
Quite apart from the care given to service personnel and dependents, Halton's 'spare capacity' was used by the local NHS, making it a superb resource for the community as well as for the forces.
And as someone pointed out, it's standing empty now, and could be brought back if the money and the will were available.
Pointless selling the land, as it would simply revert to the Rothschilds, with no gain to the exchequer except in tax - and in getting something off the books for the sake of RAB.
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So it would revert to the Rothschilds, mean land available and pay a token bit of tax ?
You've answered it yourself I'm afraid, ' Sod the plebs, I go private, and my chum is ever so grateful...'
You've answered it yourself I'm afraid, ' Sod the plebs, I go private, and my chum is ever so grateful...'
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Military Hospitals
There is a very modern hospital sitting empty at Upper Heyford, together with bowling alley, shops fuel station etc, There are also blocks of appartments that had been totally modernised, just before the USAF left
They are not being maintained at all, the MOD will probably wait till they all fall down and then sell the site to somebodys mate whois a porperty developer
Not that i'm being cynical.
By the way there is a perfectly good airport facility , less than a mile from M40 and London/Birmingham railway link at the smae location
What a F&*^%^& liberty as someone would say!!!
They are not being maintained at all, the MOD will probably wait till they all fall down and then sell the site to somebodys mate whois a porperty developer
Not that i'm being cynical.
By the way there is a perfectly good airport facility , less than a mile from M40 and London/Birmingham railway link at the smae location
What a F&*^%^& liberty as someone would say!!!
Infrastructure can easily be built, but staffing the system is the problem, with all the diverse skills in medical, nursing and support that are required on a day to day basis. the second question is where to locate the hospital, in a big city, with all the attendant security problems but close to other partner hospitals to provide clinical support, or near to the big airfields, both remote and difficult to get too.
Staffing is the big problem and the size of such a hospital to be viable would I suspect have to have 400 to 600 beds. Where do you recruit such numbers from to open such a unit, inevitably purple in structure, but with the present situation within medical and nurse training not really realistic now or in the future.
I am afraid we stuck with the present system and as I have said in previous posts one we are not liable to get out of until or if the higher echelons of DMS rattle a few cages and the "politicians" make a decision. Neither is likely especially following the remarks of the Surgeon General in relation to the deployment of dedicated medical evacuation helicopters into the combat areas, what hope a dedicated hospital ???
NOM at Halton was a happy place, me as one of 5 with all them women. Those who have been there know what NOM was.
Staffing is the big problem and the size of such a hospital to be viable would I suspect have to have 400 to 600 beds. Where do you recruit such numbers from to open such a unit, inevitably purple in structure, but with the present situation within medical and nurse training not really realistic now or in the future.
I am afraid we stuck with the present system and as I have said in previous posts one we are not liable to get out of until or if the higher echelons of DMS rattle a few cages and the "politicians" make a decision. Neither is likely especially following the remarks of the Surgeon General in relation to the deployment of dedicated medical evacuation helicopters into the combat areas, what hope a dedicated hospital ???
NOM at Halton was a happy place, me as one of 5 with all them women. Those who have been there know what NOM was.
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Infrastructure may be easy to build, but it b***dy expensive, which gives another excuse not to do it - we get the press every day saying ' nursing staff laid off'... ( notice I did say Off !) 
If there are staff available, is this place in a viable location to be of use ?
I know we could desperately do with something similar in the West Sussex area, but they're closing the inadequate hospitals we had, let alone building or fitting out new ones.
Horsham & Crawley, which are both large towns, have no A&E cover anywhere near locally, & Chichester, which is not that big but relatively handy at an hours' drive - for those well enough to do it - from Horsham, 1.5 hours from Crawley is under threat...
It would be easier & more honest if they just distributed suicide kits so as not to be a bother...
If there are staff available, is this place in a viable location to be of use ?
I know we could desperately do with something similar in the West Sussex area, but they're closing the inadequate hospitals we had, let alone building or fitting out new ones.
Horsham & Crawley, which are both large towns, have no A&E cover anywhere near locally, & Chichester, which is not that big but relatively handy at an hours' drive - for those well enough to do it - from Horsham, 1.5 hours from Crawley is under threat...
It would be easier & more honest if they just distributed suicide kits so as not to be a bother...
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I was born in a Military Hospital, at one end of a sunny Island in the Med. My father was in the RAF, and wherever we were, when any of the family needed treatment we got it. Be that Cyprus, Germany or the UK.
That treatment was without waiting for months, just for tests, without being in a filthy ward, nor with the risk of MRSA.
I think that is the reason why Military Hopsitals were got rid of, because they put the NHS to shame!
Bring them back, whatever the cost!!!!
That treatment was without waiting for months, just for tests, without being in a filthy ward, nor with the risk of MRSA.
I think that is the reason why Military Hopsitals were got rid of, because they put the NHS to shame!
Bring them back, whatever the cost!!!!
Double Zero, I agree, b****y expensive, but staffing is the main concern as we now are a net importer of nursing staff from the third world especially, and an envisaged shortage of 10-15 thousand within a few years. the collective skill sets of nurse's is being eroded and the people who are unemployed in the vast majority of cases are newly qualified. how many of today's nurses are going to sign up for a life in the military ???
The cost for building or refurbishing an existing unit would be costly in the extreme, where do you get the money from, sacking media spin doctors would help, but eventually it would come from money needed for operational commitments.
A and E units in the NHS are closing and patients are having to travel many miles for treatment that was previously delivered locally. Look at Sussex, trying getting to Brighton on a summers day through the traffic or from Kendal in the lakes to Barrow as is now planned.
PFI building is falling on its collective a**e, look at Metronet and look at what is happening with tanker replacement and how much it will cost over 30 years of the contract life.
A new Military Hospital is not going to in my opinion going to happen, due to some of the reasons I have given, I am sure that others may like to shoot down my analysis, feel free.
The cost for building or refurbishing an existing unit would be costly in the extreme, where do you get the money from, sacking media spin doctors would help, but eventually it would come from money needed for operational commitments.
A and E units in the NHS are closing and patients are having to travel many miles for treatment that was previously delivered locally. Look at Sussex, trying getting to Brighton on a summers day through the traffic or from Kendal in the lakes to Barrow as is now planned.
PFI building is falling on its collective a**e, look at Metronet and look at what is happening with tanker replacement and how much it will cost over 30 years of the contract life.
A new Military Hospital is not going to in my opinion going to happen, due to some of the reasons I have given, I am sure that others may like to shoot down my analysis, feel free.
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A-P,
I am sorry to say I have a feeling you're right; no nurse in their right mind is going to sign on for the military, which is not what I was thinking;
Is there a civil contract sorted out for this circumstance ? That way nurses might treat it as any other hospital, dare I say a prestiguous thing to put on one's CV...
BTW I am not racist in any way, have met some lovely people from the relatively far East & around, but it would be a boon if staff when in UK nursing & medicine spoke recognisable english - this applies to Doctors and the NHS in general...
I am sorry to say I have a feeling you're right; no nurse in their right mind is going to sign on for the military, which is not what I was thinking;
Is there a civil contract sorted out for this circumstance ? That way nurses might treat it as any other hospital, dare I say a prestiguous thing to put on one's CV...
BTW I am not racist in any way, have met some lovely people from the relatively far East & around, but it would be a boon if staff when in UK nursing & medicine spoke recognisable english - this applies to Doctors and the NHS in general...
Double Zero, as an ex PM, I would go back and work for them tomorrow if there was a hospital where I live.
I long for the lack of clip board carrying pen wrestlers and clear management and direction of a military hospital. At Halton we had 4 yes just 4 senior managers, The CO and OCs
Medical, Nursing and Admin. What more do you need, FFS.
Selly Oak is what we have and will have to live with it, unfortunately. Good job a high percentage of the care is very good.
BEagle, you devil, not all of us where girlies.
I long for the lack of clip board carrying pen wrestlers and clear management and direction of a military hospital. At Halton we had 4 yes just 4 senior managers, The CO and OCs
Medical, Nursing and Admin. What more do you need, FFS.
Selly Oak is what we have and will have to live with it, unfortunately. Good job a high percentage of the care is very good.
BEagle, you devil, not all of us where girlies.
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Those kind MODs at the Air Cadet Central forums have allowed a link to be added in the Staff Thread. Should add a few hundred names to the list in one easy swoop.
If that one thing you can count on, the ATC and VRT supporting the regulars causes
If that one thing you can count on, the ATC and VRT supporting the regulars causes
Bob C, yes they are and they still are the best. Rumours that all medical services may become purple, thereby ending the three services history and tradition.
Last edited by air pig; 24th Jul 2007 at 16:32.
Awesome but Affordable
Eight years ago I had a very mild cardiac infarction and wound up for a few days in the cardiac care unit at Peterborough District Hospital. One of those with an embedded military cell. Feeling more than a bit depressed at the thought of my ATPL class 1 medical dematerialising I was pleased to find an RAF doctor as one of the medical team. He raised my morale no end though his prognosis that I would never fly in command again was a bit dire.
In any case the advent of the NPPL solved my problem in 2002 enabling me to fly our Skybolt as P1. Every trip is at least 50% aeros and results in a huge grin.
My compliments and thanks to those RAF personnel who work in hospitals like these.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
In any case the advent of the NPPL solved my problem in 2002 enabling me to fly our Skybolt as P1. Every trip is at least 50% aeros and results in a huge grin.
My compliments and thanks to those RAF personnel who work in hospitals like these.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
Agree with Widger, bet he would not say that to the Matron I worked for at Halton. She would have taken him out and ritually dis-emboweled him on the car park, if only as an example to others to be clean and tidy.
Standards at PMH were so high, they would shame any NHS hospital. The example of Flo in the Crimea was the order of the day, nothing less.
Standards at PMH were so high, they would shame any NHS hospital. The example of Flo in the Crimea was the order of the day, nothing less.
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I think the point about military nurses being alot more aware of the need for cleanliness (but only in clinical duties you understand) was proven recently by the PMRAFNS officer who was so disgusted by the state of the NHS ward he'd been sent to work on he got all his military nurses in for a 'bull night'.
Having seen both sides of the fence my only regret is that I didn't join sooner. Yes the annual OOA's are a pain in the proverbial but it certainly beats getting held hostage by a psychiatric patient with a bread knife and beaten sensless by a drug addict only for your NHS boss to not back you up on the court action. At least now I get a gun
Having seen both sides of the fence my only regret is that I didn't join sooner. Yes the annual OOA's are a pain in the proverbial but it certainly beats getting held hostage by a psychiatric patient with a bread knife and beaten sensless by a drug addict only for your NHS boss to not back you up on the court action. At least now I get a gun
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So. 19 replies to my post.
2 of them complaining that the demise of military hospitals meant a lack of pretty nurses
1 moaning about a lack of pretty matrons
1 insulting me
2 insulting Beagle....
and 11 replies all in favour of military hospitals because their children were born in them. ....
My experience of military hospitals comes from visits to Haslar (awful place) and Stonehouse (Birth place of Oliver Twist where the staff were rude, amateurish and where they completely buggered up my knee)
2 of them complaining that the demise of military hospitals meant a lack of pretty nurses
1 moaning about a lack of pretty matrons
1 insulting me
2 insulting Beagle....
and 11 replies all in favour of military hospitals because their children were born in them. ....
My experience of military hospitals comes from visits to Haslar (awful place) and Stonehouse (Birth place of Oliver Twist where the staff were rude, amateurish and where they completely buggered up my knee)
So because VVHA has a bad experience ALL military hospitals are cr@p
I do sometimes wonder whether VVHA just posts the complete opposite to any topic to get a bite? What I must admit is that he is an excellent fisherman because it works every time!!
I have had several experiences of the former military hospitals and my experiences were that the buildings were old, but spotlessly clean. The staff were generally good, helpful and doing their best with the facilities they had. Some were very well equipped (wasn't it Wroughton that had one of the few MRI scanners in the country and which was used by the Wiltshire NHS?) others were WWII "temporary" buildings (Nocton Hall). Either way you were treated with respect and "tough love" when necessary. Don't remember any cases of MRSA in a military hospital.
I do sometimes wonder whether VVHA just posts the complete opposite to any topic to get a bite? What I must admit is that he is an excellent fisherman because it works every time!!
I have had several experiences of the former military hospitals and my experiences were that the buildings were old, but spotlessly clean. The staff were generally good, helpful and doing their best with the facilities they had. Some were very well equipped (wasn't it Wroughton that had one of the few MRI scanners in the country and which was used by the Wiltshire NHS?) others were WWII "temporary" buildings (Nocton Hall). Either way you were treated with respect and "tough love" when necessary. Don't remember any cases of MRSA in a military hospital.
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Well Done. I think you are the first poster on this thread who has made a genuien and reasoned argument for the reinstatement of military hospitals without using the argument that "we miss the nurses" or "they provide good maternity care"