India Warplane Order
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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India Warplane Order
So, this is to replace their Mig-21s and Jaguars - second tier not first tier aircraft. So I doubt Rafale/Typhoon/F-18 will be selected. If they're keen to diversify their suppliers, and having just ordered a shed load of SU-30MKs, I have to wonder what they've selected. If they go for the Mig-35 (Mig-29 OVT) it would seem to throw out the whole idea of diversifying altogether.
Any rumours out there? F-16? Rafale? Mig-35?
DefenseNews: India Completes Talks on Huge Warplane Deal: Official
By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, NEW DELHI
India has completed negotiations over an order for 126 fighter jets that could cost up to nine billion dollars, Defense Minister A.K. Antony said June 18. But the minister did not say which of the Russian, U.S. and European rivals were best placed to win what arms industry sources have described as the biggest fighter plane contract in 15 years.
According to industry sources, the leading contenders are the Russian-built MiG-35 and MiG-29, Lockheed Martin’s F-16 and Boeing’s F-18. Also in the race to replace India’s aged fleet of MiG-21s are Eurofighter’s Typhoon, Saab’s Gripen and Dassault’s Rafale.
”All negotiations are over and now it is a question of formalities,” Antony told reporters on the sidelines of a commanders’ meeting in the Indian capital. ”The defense acquisition committee will be meeting within a fortnight and decide on the Request for Proposals (RFP),” the minister added, referring to the body that has the final say on who should get the contract.
Senior defense ministry officials also confirmed the comments, saying that “no further discussions are necessary in the deal. We are now hopeful the contract will be offered within a month’s time or so,” one of the officials told AFP.
The deal will be the first time India, now the biggest arms purchaser among emerging nations, has bought combat aircraft after evaluating rival bids through a global tender.
The country was once a captive defense-equipment market for the former Soviet Union and later Russia — which provided 70 percent of India’s military hardware — but is now seen as trying to broaden its military suppliers.
The two U.S. contenders, Lockheed Martin and Boeing, are trying to latch on to warming relations between New Delhi and Washington, who were once on opposite sides of the Cold War divide.
The two countries signed a landmark deal in 2005 that will allow India access to U.S. civil nuclear technology, barred since the country exploded its first nuclear bomb in 1974.
Any rumours out there? F-16? Rafale? Mig-35?
DefenseNews: India Completes Talks on Huge Warplane Deal: Official
By AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE, NEW DELHI
India has completed negotiations over an order for 126 fighter jets that could cost up to nine billion dollars, Defense Minister A.K. Antony said June 18. But the minister did not say which of the Russian, U.S. and European rivals were best placed to win what arms industry sources have described as the biggest fighter plane contract in 15 years.
According to industry sources, the leading contenders are the Russian-built MiG-35 and MiG-29, Lockheed Martin’s F-16 and Boeing’s F-18. Also in the race to replace India’s aged fleet of MiG-21s are Eurofighter’s Typhoon, Saab’s Gripen and Dassault’s Rafale.
”All negotiations are over and now it is a question of formalities,” Antony told reporters on the sidelines of a commanders’ meeting in the Indian capital. ”The defense acquisition committee will be meeting within a fortnight and decide on the Request for Proposals (RFP),” the minister added, referring to the body that has the final say on who should get the contract.
Senior defense ministry officials also confirmed the comments, saying that “no further discussions are necessary in the deal. We are now hopeful the contract will be offered within a month’s time or so,” one of the officials told AFP.
The deal will be the first time India, now the biggest arms purchaser among emerging nations, has bought combat aircraft after evaluating rival bids through a global tender.
The country was once a captive defense-equipment market for the former Soviet Union and later Russia — which provided 70 percent of India’s military hardware — but is now seen as trying to broaden its military suppliers.
The two U.S. contenders, Lockheed Martin and Boeing, are trying to latch on to warming relations between New Delhi and Washington, who were once on opposite sides of the Cold War divide.
The two countries signed a landmark deal in 2005 that will allow India access to U.S. civil nuclear technology, barred since the country exploded its first nuclear bomb in 1974.
You can rule out the F-16, the IAF isn't happy with it. The Gripen wont be purchased for political reasons as it has specs very similar to our own Light Combat Aircraft (Tejas) program. The Typhoon's delivery schedules will also affect its prospects, and the fact that currently it is available only in A2A form.
Everyone would love the Rafale, but the expense is the concern. Front runners are the MiG-35 and the F/A-18E.
I would love a split in the purchase - two squadrons' worth of Rafales and the rest MiG-35s. I have my doubts if the F/A-18E will come with the AESA radar; and with an older gen mechanically scanned radar, it loses out to the ZhukME and the RBE2.
There are rumours about the Superhornet being selected if they will allow us to build the F414 on license here, and use the engine for the Tejas too (currently, it runs on the older Hornet's F404 and it is slated to run an Indian engine, the Kaveri, which has seen a lot of trouble).
For once I think there is so much confusion at the higher levels that there hasn't yet been a leak to what they will end up buying!
Everyone would love the Rafale, but the expense is the concern. Front runners are the MiG-35 and the F/A-18E.
I would love a split in the purchase - two squadrons' worth of Rafales and the rest MiG-35s. I have my doubts if the F/A-18E will come with the AESA radar; and with an older gen mechanically scanned radar, it loses out to the ZhukME and the RBE2.
There are rumours about the Superhornet being selected if they will allow us to build the F414 on license here, and use the engine for the Tejas too (currently, it runs on the older Hornet's F404 and it is slated to run an Indian engine, the Kaveri, which has seen a lot of trouble).
For once I think there is so much confusion at the higher levels that there hasn't yet been a leak to what they will end up buying!
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The Typhoon's delivery schedules will also affect its prospects, and the fact that currently it is available only in A2A form.
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June 2007:
The British Government has announced a major aid package to some of the poorest regions of India. The multi-million pound package will be used to cut India’s infant mortality rate and increase medical care in remote areas.
SCRIPT:
The £250 million pound aid package was announced by Gareth Thomas, the UK Minister for International Development. The Minister said that though India is fast gaining a reputation as a major economic superpower, nearly half of all India’s children are malnourished.
India buys defence equipment and we pay for the healthcare. (shame they can't finance the NHS
)
The British Government has announced a major aid package to some of the poorest regions of India. The multi-million pound package will be used to cut India’s infant mortality rate and increase medical care in remote areas.
SCRIPT:
The £250 million pound aid package was announced by Gareth Thomas, the UK Minister for International Development. The Minister said that though India is fast gaining a reputation as a major economic superpower, nearly half of all India’s children are malnourished.
India buys defence equipment and we pay for the healthcare. (shame they can't finance the NHS
)
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Aid to India
Good point, m/c !
I've worked with a small portion of the Indian Navy & have nothing but respect for them - but on an international scale it's a poor show not to give your people food & water, but go for colossal arms increases.
It's not as if they were a little nation desperate for a few arms to fend off an aggressor...No doubt if we mentioned that it'd be goodbye to any future arms sales...I wonder exactly how much net profit UK Ltd makes overall ?
Having seen the Indian way of negotiating, it's a fair bet they're running rings round us !
I've worked with a small portion of the Indian Navy & have nothing but respect for them - but on an international scale it's a poor show not to give your people food & water, but go for colossal arms increases.
It's not as if they were a little nation desperate for a few arms to fend off an aggressor...No doubt if we mentioned that it'd be goodbye to any future arms sales...I wonder exactly how much net profit UK Ltd makes overall ?
Having seen the Indian way of negotiating, it's a fair bet they're running rings round us !
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126 fighters for 9 billion dollars?? They won't be getting that many super Hornets or F-16's then?? The RAAF purchased recently 24 Super hornets through the US Navy (to cut red tape, as did the RAAF with the C-17 through the USAF) for 6 billion Aussie dollars (about 5 billlion US dollars) at US navy mates rates apparently!!! I think India will have to stick to Russian equipment if thay want that many fighters for 9 billion and will probably have to throw in a couple of million litres of palm oil with the deal. Another option may be to purchase that amount of Eurofighter’s Typhoons and have the European Union subsidise it with an aid package.
Last edited by wessex19; 21st Jun 2007 at 04:42.
*sigh*
Double Zero
Why is Britain buying the Typhoon and the JSF then? Who is going to attack you?
Do you even know what aircraft the MRCA contract is slated to replace? And what would be the strength of the IAF vis-a-vis Pakistan if they weren't?
Now add to that we have Pakistan on one side, China on the other. Britain has barely fought two wars in the last 60 years (Falklands and GW1) while India has fought four (and a half, Kargil 1999).
Let us stick to the military side of discussion here, this will take us nowhere.
Double Zero
Why is Britain buying the Typhoon and the JSF then? Who is going to attack you?
Do you even know what aircraft the MRCA contract is slated to replace? And what would be the strength of the IAF vis-a-vis Pakistan if they weren't?
Now add to that we have Pakistan on one side, China on the other. Britain has barely fought two wars in the last 60 years (Falklands and GW1) while India has fought four (and a half, Kargil 1999).
Let us stick to the military side of discussion here, this will take us nowhere.
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Awkward questions
Bombay Duck, yes I do have an idea; and from what little I know Pakistan is more likely to send unpleasant brainwashed suicide bombers at you than try anything military.
We're having Typhoon because we're stuck with building it, and hope it'll make some money as an export.
JSF because the Harrier is getting long in the tooth and we're keeping an ability.
Just as people like me think our Trident replacement programme is a vast waste of money which would be a lot better spent on our NHS,
it's hard to justify ( and distinctly poor international P.R. ) to build up arms while taking aid hand-outs for your own people who seem to be regarded as an unfortunate irrelevance.
We're having Typhoon because we're stuck with building it, and hope it'll make some money as an export.
JSF because the Harrier is getting long in the tooth and we're keeping an ability.
Just as people like me think our Trident replacement programme is a vast waste of money which would be a lot better spent on our NHS,
it's hard to justify ( and distinctly poor international P.R. ) to build up arms while taking aid hand-outs for your own people who seem to be regarded as an unfortunate irrelevance.
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BombayDuck
Did I miss something or did
Britain has barely fought two wars in the last 60 years (Falklands and GW1)
Malaysia,
Korea,
Aden,
Suez,
several Balkan episodes,
Sierra Leone (OK that was a fairly easy short and sharp win - pitty about the Post Conflict reconstruction though)
GW2 continuing onto Iraq insurgency (OK that was a fairly easy short and sharp win - pitty about the post conflict reconstruction though),
Afghanistan continuing into insurgency (OK that was a fairly easy short and sharp win - pitty about the post conflict reconstruction though (hold on, is there an emerging theme here!))
not happen!
Korea,
Aden,
Suez,
several Balkan episodes,
Sierra Leone (OK that was a fairly easy short and sharp win - pitty about the Post Conflict reconstruction though)
GW2 continuing onto Iraq insurgency (OK that was a fairly easy short and sharp win - pitty about the post conflict reconstruction though),
Afghanistan continuing into insurgency (OK that was a fairly easy short and sharp win - pitty about the post conflict reconstruction though (hold on, is there an emerging theme here!))
Last edited by Climebear; 21st Jun 2007 at 08:18.
