Red Arrows-Cosford TRA Infingements
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Red Arrows-Cosford TRA Infingements
Reds had to halt their show today half way through and return to Shawbury due to 2 separate TRA infringements by Microlights.
I hope the errant pilots are prosecuted.
I hope the errant pilots are prosecuted.
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I was there, the Reds as always were superb, shame we only got half of their flat display
I'm all for sharing the skies with all forms of aviation but I hope the pilot/s are on the receiving end of a good stern talking to!
I'm all for sharing the skies with all forms of aviation but I hope the pilot/s are on the receiving end of a good stern talking to!
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Bramble. You have come to the wrong forum if you are looking for sympathy for the Red Arrows here. 
As for your comment
I guess that tell us that you are not a pilot then. 
I don't think there is a pilot out there (mil or civ) who wouldn't have spent a long time in jail if they were prosecuted every time they made a mistake 
As for your comment
I hope the errant pilots are prosecuted
I don't think there is a pilot out there (mil or civ) who wouldn't have spent a long time in jail if they were prosecuted every time they made a mistake
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Since when have we hated the Reds all of a sudden?!
However, someone who doesn't check and take heed of notams before commiting acts of aviation should be strung up by their short and curlies.
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You have come to the wrong forum if you are looking for sympathy for the Red Arrows here
I don't think there is a pilot out there (mil or civ) who wouldn't have spent a long time in jail if they were prosecuted every time they made a mistake
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Have to agree there. The Red Arrows are certainly the UK's best team...but in the world? Hmmmmm
Was an AIP SUP or NOTAM issued for the TRA ?
If not then maybe some Ops clerk is feeling a little red faced at the moment.
Was an AIP SUP or NOTAM issued for the TRA ?
If not then maybe some Ops clerk is feeling a little red faced at the moment.
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A Red Arrows display with almost no coloured smoke was rubbish.
....and the pwered hang glider & microlight pilots deserve to loose their licence, as there is no-way that any aviator in the west midlands would not have known that it was the cosford air day.
I bet they were from Shifnall, those who complain with regular occurance about military not givving their 'field' a wide enough berth. Plonkers.
....and the pwered hang glider & microlight pilots deserve to loose their licence, as there is no-way that any aviator in the west midlands would not have known that it was the cosford air day.
I bet they were from Shifnall, those who complain with regular occurance about military not givving their 'field' a wide enough berth. Plonkers.
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It WAS NOTAM'd. 6nm, 8300 ft.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Maybe Cosford should have had one of those "show what the RAF can do displays"
Sky Garudian.
Oh no we got rid of them, and the Rapier, along with the SHAR.
Sky Garudian.
Oh no we got rid of them, and the Rapier, along with the SHAR.
It was 8 miles and 8300 ft for the Reds. As the Approach Controller for the display at the time I have only just finished filling in paperwork. Had you seen how close they were on radar then you might appreciate how close we were to a real disaster. If pilots cannot read a warning, or see 9 jets with different coloured smoke coming from them, then maybe they require another medical. Mistakes happen, stupidity shouldnt. Well thats blown my cover.
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Leaving aside the personal grudges/hates/likes/chips on shoulders, this event is a gross breach of aviation safety and I too hope and expect that action be taken against the infringers. To quote KPax
Mistakes happen, stupidity shouldnt.
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I'm cautiously stepping into the lion's den with what I hope are words of wisdom.
I've flown for over 30 years in the skies of East Anglia and the East Midlands and have shared the same airspace with most types of military aircraft from Phantoms through to the Typhoon and it's always been a case of "see and be seen".
This method served me well and despite the increasing pressures on airspace, I hope it will continue to work for me and the other pilots who share that airspace with me.
I'll admit that much of what I've learned about flying since gaining my PPL back in the early 70's, has often been by making mistakes and learning from those mistakes as a consequence.
Call it a charmed life or what but I'm sure there's many who made the same mistakes and are now probably playing a harp!
On the point of other pilots making mistakes and as a consequence putting others in danger and or disrupting a display by the Reds or the BBMF, those of them that realise what they've done (whether they get away with it or not) will in all probability, not do it again.
Those that don't realise and are identified, need their competences checking and any shortfalls made good by additional training.
Stiff fines and loss of licence will do nothing to prevent others doing the same in the future (since when have the drink driving laws been an effective deterent?).
Yes, a few may get a wake up call because they hear through the grapevine of someone they know getting clobbered by a big fine but most will not hear anything about it and sublimly carry on flying in a manner that leaves the rest of us exasperated and them in complete ignorance of what is going on around them.
What's the answer? More specific training on what a Notam means in reality and how to interpret the info contained in them. I'd even go as far as suggesting that the air law written paper includes a requirement to access a selection of notams and interpret them successfully if a pass in that paper is to be gained.
OK, so that takes care of the the "new" pilots but what about the old 'uns!
Quite simply, make it a part of any licence revalidation, skills test, bi-annual competency test that the pilot must show how he/she can access notams and successfully interpret them and show how they would use that info during a flight.
In the meantime, I shall keep on reminding those pilots that I come into contact with, of how an airspace bust could result in more than just a hefty fine or loss of licence. Some of them may not thank me for it and many will continue oblivious of what they are doing but if we all did it (military and civvy), at least we will have tried our damndest.
Thanks for allowing me to intrude into your forum but I just wanted you to know that some of us care about how we "unruly" civvy pilots are perceived and are trying to do something about it, in our own way.
I shall now spend the rest of the day sitting out by my strip waiting for the first Tucano of the day to tear through the overhead at ?ft.
I've flown for over 30 years in the skies of East Anglia and the East Midlands and have shared the same airspace with most types of military aircraft from Phantoms through to the Typhoon and it's always been a case of "see and be seen".
This method served me well and despite the increasing pressures on airspace, I hope it will continue to work for me and the other pilots who share that airspace with me.
I'll admit that much of what I've learned about flying since gaining my PPL back in the early 70's, has often been by making mistakes and learning from those mistakes as a consequence.
Call it a charmed life or what but I'm sure there's many who made the same mistakes and are now probably playing a harp!
On the point of other pilots making mistakes and as a consequence putting others in danger and or disrupting a display by the Reds or the BBMF, those of them that realise what they've done (whether they get away with it or not) will in all probability, not do it again.
Those that don't realise and are identified, need their competences checking and any shortfalls made good by additional training.
Stiff fines and loss of licence will do nothing to prevent others doing the same in the future (since when have the drink driving laws been an effective deterent?).
Yes, a few may get a wake up call because they hear through the grapevine of someone they know getting clobbered by a big fine but most will not hear anything about it and sublimly carry on flying in a manner that leaves the rest of us exasperated and them in complete ignorance of what is going on around them.
What's the answer? More specific training on what a Notam means in reality and how to interpret the info contained in them. I'd even go as far as suggesting that the air law written paper includes a requirement to access a selection of notams and interpret them successfully if a pass in that paper is to be gained.
OK, so that takes care of the the "new" pilots but what about the old 'uns!
Quite simply, make it a part of any licence revalidation, skills test, bi-annual competency test that the pilot must show how he/she can access notams and successfully interpret them and show how they would use that info during a flight.
In the meantime, I shall keep on reminding those pilots that I come into contact with, of how an airspace bust could result in more than just a hefty fine or loss of licence. Some of them may not thank me for it and many will continue oblivious of what they are doing but if we all did it (military and civvy), at least we will have tried our damndest.
Thanks for allowing me to intrude into your forum but I just wanted you to know that some of us care about how we "unruly" civvy pilots are perceived and are trying to do something about it, in our own way.
I shall now spend the rest of the day sitting out by my strip waiting for the first Tucano of the day to tear through the overhead at ?ft.
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Not only is it NOTAM'd, there is a Freephone AIS information line on 0500 354 802 with a recorded announcement for the day, detailing all RA(T)s and Red Arrows displays.
The AOPA journal General Aviation this month, talking about the Red Arrow airspace infringement problem, goes on to say:
"It's free, it's easy - try it right now and capture it on your mobile. Call it before you fly, every time you fly. Check the AICs. You can do so online at www.ais.org.uk. Check the NOTAMs, which are also on the AIS website, or you can call the NOTAM office on 0208 745 3451 or 3450. They're available 24 hours a day, round the calendar - and you get to talk to a real human being, rather than listen to a recording. You can check Pre-Flight Aviation Bulletins (PIBs) on the AIS website, and you can get PIBs through the NATS website www.nats.co.uk if the AIS website is unavailable for any reason.
Short of having Red One come round to your house every day and brief you over breakfast, it's hard to see what more can be done. Don't expect sympathy."
I find it hard to believe that anyone would disagree with that.
The AOPA journal General Aviation this month, talking about the Red Arrow airspace infringement problem, goes on to say:
"It's free, it's easy - try it right now and capture it on your mobile. Call it before you fly, every time you fly. Check the AICs. You can do so online at www.ais.org.uk. Check the NOTAMs, which are also on the AIS website, or you can call the NOTAM office on 0208 745 3451 or 3450. They're available 24 hours a day, round the calendar - and you get to talk to a real human being, rather than listen to a recording. You can check Pre-Flight Aviation Bulletins (PIBs) on the AIS website, and you can get PIBs through the NATS website www.nats.co.uk if the AIS website is unavailable for any reason.
Short of having Red One come round to your house every day and brief you over breakfast, it's hard to see what more can be done. Don't expect sympathy."
I find it hard to believe that anyone would disagree with that.
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The Red Arrows are certainly the UK's best team...but in the world? Hmmmmm