Are Master Aircrew Warrant Officers?
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Aircrew Airborne
Who cares who salutes a MACR or is "superior" to them... On their aircraft, which is, after all, their domain, your rank is irrelevant. The MACR is the direct representative of the aircraft Captain and therefore outranks all other non-aircrew. The same applies to a Sgt. Aircrew...
So, the upshot of this silly thread started by a silly man is that SNCO Aircrew don't give a rats behind who salutes who and who is "superior" to who because where they work they have only one boss... The captain!!!!
Close the thread...
So, the upshot of this silly thread started by a silly man is that SNCO Aircrew don't give a rats behind who salutes who and who is "superior" to who because where they work they have only one boss... The captain!!!!
Close the thread...
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
AA makes a good point saying that MACR status is similar to, oh let's say the Cabin Supervisor role on Easyjet then, and it's really all about making sure the SLF sit in the correct seat (because there's no duty free to sell)? Makes more sense now, although you never see Flight Attendants salute the Captain these days, which may be indicative of standards in society slipping in general.
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So to recap, as a CW1 are you saluted by enlisted ranks? As a CW2 are you saluted by enlisted ranks? Is a CW5 junior to a OF1? When you go for lunch, which mess do you eat in?
Yes
Yes
Officers' Club
The title 'Warrant Officer' seems to be the cause of some confusion.
In your Armed Forces a commissioned officer holds a commission and a warrant officer holds a warrant. The former is an officer, the latter is not. Easy.
In our Armed Forces, we have Warrant Officers appointed by warrant, Warrant Officers who are commissioned and commissioned officers who are also commissioned! And all three are officers. So confusion reigns!
Last edited by Chief_Two; 10th Jun 2007 at 07:05.
So confusion reigns
To summarise you do not hold a NATO 'OF' post therefore as far as the majority of NATO Services are concerned you are not of officer status.
To all other PPRuNers "Sorry". I replied to the troll again abd bounced this topic back to the top again. My only excuse is its still early on a Sunday morning
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Roland, sorry, I agree with your footnote.
Not is our outfit it doesn't. A corporal is an officer, a sergeant is an officer, a policeman is an officer.
Practically everyone is an officer. Just that some are commissioned officers and were are able to make the distinction as one mess if the commissioned officers' mess, another is the sergeants's mess and the last is the junior ranks' mess. As two are named it was unnecessary to identify the first as commissioned.
The Royal Navy do not have officers' messes at all.
Not is our outfit it doesn't. A corporal is an officer, a sergeant is an officer, a policeman is an officer.
Practically everyone is an officer. Just that some are commissioned officers and were are able to make the distinction as one mess if the commissioned officers' mess, another is the sergeants's mess and the last is the junior ranks' mess. As two are named it was unnecessary to identify the first as commissioned.
The Royal Navy do not have officers' messes at all.
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The messing issue would be far easier if we combined all the WO/SNCOs and Officers messes into one.
Then again, I don't think the WOs would accept the drop in standards!!!!!
Then again, I don't think the WOs would accept the drop in standards!!!!!
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Chief Two, In the British Armed forces we often commission Warrant Officers; particularly those who have enough time left in their Service to usefully contribute to the commissioned cadre, and wish to do so. Such individuals give up their Royal Warrant in favour of Her Majesty's Commission. One could describe these individuals as commissioned warrant officers, but it would be wrong to give them that title. They become commissioned officers in every sense and adopt an appropriate junior officer rank in the associated Service and, yes, they must be saluted by Warrant Officers of all Services.
It seems to me that this is equivalent to your CWO rank.
It seems to me that this is equivalent to your CWO rank.
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AC,
That would be correct if commissioning was still open to MACR's who wish to stay in their respective trades. No more NCA commissions, unless you know soneone with the key to the "Back Door" !!!!
That would be correct if commissioning was still open to MACR's who wish to stay in their respective trades. No more NCA commissions, unless you know soneone with the key to the "Back Door" !!!!
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Surely a Warrant Officer who is commissioned simply becomes a Pilot Officer or equivilent and becomes an OF-1 in NATO terms. There isn't really anything in the RAF like the CWO of the US military.
There isn't really any distinction between those who have come from the ranks and those who started as Officers. The random airman who comes across an officer isn't going to know either way.
There isn't really any distinction between those who have come from the ranks and those who started as Officers. The random airman who comes across an officer isn't going to know either way.
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The older ones are caught in the pension trap. The younger ones with careers ahead of them? Well, if they had any sense they'd get out whilst the going was good and had a chance of a second career.
And if they are not clever enough to see it we'll end up with the dross and another bunch of complete to$$3r's, just like so many that have gone before them!
Sorry, end of RANT, and apologies for being eight miles off thread. To regain track, Are MACR WOs? Yes. Any questions?
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It seems to me that this is equivalent to your CWO rank.
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TWR 118.2
Macr/WO's on commissioning are awarded 3 years seniorority and graduate as Fg Off - regarding distinction? - very much so.
I know of 2 (former NCA) newly commissioned arrivals on one particular Sqn who were 'welcomed aboard' by their Flt Cdr (a Direct Entrant Senior Officer) who advised them to quietly settle in, not make any waves and not set their sights too high regarding Captaincy or promotion, as they were not, in his words, "real officers", and must remember their place
Both became Captains and retired as Sqn Ldr's
Macr/WO's on commissioning are awarded 3 years seniorority and graduate as Fg Off - regarding distinction? - very much so.
I know of 2 (former NCA) newly commissioned arrivals on one particular Sqn who were 'welcomed aboard' by their Flt Cdr (a Direct Entrant Senior Officer) who advised them to quietly settle in, not make any waves and not set their sights too high regarding Captaincy or promotion, as they were not, in his words, "real officers", and must remember their place
Both became Captains and retired as Sqn Ldr's
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To summarise you do not hold a NATO 'OF' post therefore as far as the majority of NATO Services are concerned you are not of officer status
Well sorry to contradict you but if the US Army appoints you as an Officer then you are an Officer.
The Department of Defense website gives a good definition of an Officer:
Officer ranks in the United States military consist of commissioned officers and warrant officers. Warrant officers hold warrants from their service secretary and are specialists and experts in certain military technologies or capabilities. The lowest ranking warrant officers (WO1)serve under a warrant, but they receive commissions from the president upon promotion to chief warrant officer 2. These commissioned warrant officers are direct representatives of the president of the United States. They derive their authority from the same source as commissioned officers but remain specialists, in contrast to commissioned officers, who are generalists.
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Chief, can we please move on?
If the US hadn't come along and complicated a very straight forward system we wouldn't need to have pointless threads like this one.
Just accept that our system is different to yours.
And if you get a salute from a Brit? Just treat it as a bonus
If the US hadn't come along and complicated a very straight forward system we wouldn't need to have pointless threads like this one.
Just accept that our system is different to yours.
And if you get a salute from a Brit? Just treat it as a bonus
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
contacttower, in a word NO.
There is the normal route, OASC, IOT, commission usually to the rank of flt lt as seniority (for all from the ranks) is based on previous length of service.
There was (is?) a scheme for fast-track promotion with a very small annual quota for WO that meet the criteria. They go to Cranwell, get a 2-week indoctrination and new kit, and emerge as a flt lt.
Now the difference between commissioning a warrant officer and a commissioned warrant officer is one of both status and future career.
Is a CWO at his highest rank in his career or could he become a lt/capt?
The commissioning a warrant off means he starts at the capt level and could even get promoted to sqn ldr and beyond.
There is the normal route, OASC, IOT, commission usually to the rank of flt lt as seniority (for all from the ranks) is based on previous length of service.
There was (is?) a scheme for fast-track promotion with a very small annual quota for WO that meet the criteria. They go to Cranwell, get a 2-week indoctrination and new kit, and emerge as a flt lt.
Now the difference between commissioning a warrant officer and a commissioned warrant officer is one of both status and future career.
Is a CWO at his highest rank in his career or could he become a lt/capt?
The commissioning a warrant off means he starts at the capt level and could even get promoted to sqn ldr and beyond.
Well sorry to contradict you but if the US Army appoints you as an Officer then you are an Officer.
The Department of Defense website gives a good definition of an Officer:
Officer ranks in the United States military
Officer ranks in the United States military
Just because the Department of Defense (sp) says so doesn't make it so for the rest of the world. You are a Warrant Officer and you do not hold a NATO, or for that matter US military, OF or O rank therefore you aren't.
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Chief Two, a couple of questions for you:
1. In the US Armed Forces, is it possible for a Warrant Officer, 1st or 2nd Class (not CWO) to gain a commission and become, say, a Lt or a Capt (ie a junior officer)? Presumably, such individuals would then have a limited 2nd career.
2. Can your CWOs progress further in rank? Or are they at the zenith of their careers?
Your answers might be key to this whole discussion...
1. In the US Armed Forces, is it possible for a Warrant Officer, 1st or 2nd Class (not CWO) to gain a commission and become, say, a Lt or a Capt (ie a junior officer)? Presumably, such individuals would then have a limited 2nd career.
2. Can your CWOs progress further in rank? Or are they at the zenith of their careers?
Your answers might be key to this whole discussion...
Fly Conventional Gear
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Well sorry to contradict you but if the US Army appoints you as an Officer then you are an Officer.
As someone said earlier nearly everyone is an Officer, but some are commissioned and some are not.