Are Master Aircrew Warrant Officers?
Another cause for confusion - warrant officers, not themselves SNCOs, use the Sergeants' Mess. When on a US base, and thus entitled to use the O=club they often chose to remain with the SNCOs.
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Roush: I've been lucky enough to have been holding an RAF post within the USAF for the past three years and have never had a single issue. The enlisted (E9 included) address me as Sir and the commissioned ranks address me as Mr. Best rank in the Air Force.
I'm just surprised that the British Armed Forces do not fully recognize the status of US Warrant Officers......
I'm sure you'll ask again, since your posting history would suggest that you seem to be heading this way; as you don't hold The Queen's commission, you don't get saluted by Brits.
Last edited by diginagain; 5th Jun 2007 at 15:51.
I had a friend in the US Army, he almost made CW2, but McDonalds stopped issuing the tokens when he was 3 short.
"Never mind I said", I am sure they will repeat the promotion next year.
Chief_Two - Here is the only salute you warrant from the Brits:
"Never mind I said", I am sure they will repeat the promotion next year.
Chief_Two - Here is the only salute you warrant from the Brits:
Now please go forth and multiply.
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ZH875
Let's avoid personal abuse. However I would still like an answer to my question.
Why??
Let's avoid personal abuse. However I would still like an answer to my question.
Roush: I've been lucky enough to have been holding an RAF post within the USAF for the past three years and have never had a single issue. The enlisted (E9 included) address me as Sir and the commissioned ranks address me as Mr. Best rank in the Air Force. Chief_Two: ....a USAF E9 is expected to address a British Warrant Officer of the same status as 'Sir'.
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Chief Two
Coalition forces are fighting and losing their lives on a daily basis in wars that most of them didn't want to even be a part of and all you seem to care about is who should salute who(m).
Go away and get a life you sad bloody individual.
Go away and get a life you sad bloody individual.
Last edited by Bigwings; 5th Jun 2007 at 18:54. Reason: Spelling
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chief if you write to Air Chief Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy KCB CBE DSO BSc(Eng) FRAeS RAF, I am sure he will give you the time of day to answer your very important question. It's not like he has other stuff to sort out and I am sure he will be so glad you have brought this world shattering non saluting problem to his attention.
If you don't want to do that then maybe you could just sod off.
Oh BTW have you tried asking on Rum Ration. The Royal Marines have Warrant Officers.
Here is the link http://www.rumration.co.uk/cpgn2/ind...e=royal_marine enjoy
Whoops nearly forgot. You could also try asking on e-goat. That's the unofficial RAF website. There are more currently serving people on that site.
http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/cmps_index.php enjoy again
If you don't want to do that then maybe you could just sod off.
Oh BTW have you tried asking on Rum Ration. The Royal Marines have Warrant Officers.
Here is the link http://www.rumration.co.uk/cpgn2/ind...e=royal_marine enjoy
Whoops nearly forgot. You could also try asking on e-goat. That's the unofficial RAF website. There are more currently serving people on that site.
http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/cmps_index.php enjoy again
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Well you did mention the Navy
Just to complicate matters!!!!
The warrant officer corps began in the 13th century in the nascent English Royal Navy. At that time, noblemen with military experience took command of the new Navy, adopting the military ranks of lieutenant and captain. These officers often had no knowledge of life on board a ship — let alone how to navigate such a vessel — and relied on the expertise of the ship's Master and other seamen who tended to the technical aspects of running the ship. As cannon came into use, the officers also required gunnery experts.
These sailors became indispensable to the running of the ship and were rewarded with a royal warrant. The warrant was a special designation, designed to set them apart from other sailors, yet not violate the class system that was prevalent during the time.
Nevertheless, while the class distinctions embodied by the distinction between commission and warrant were important at Court and in society both at home and abroad, on board ship a person's status has always depended more on the practical importance of the job that he did rather than the formalities of commission or warrant. Admiralty commissions were therefore never accorded the unique status that the Queen's commission holds in the Army, and in the hierarchy of a Royal Navy ship important warrant officers such as the Master would outrank commissioned officers such as the marine Lieutenants.
The warrant officer corps began in the 13th century in the nascent English Royal Navy. At that time, noblemen with military experience took command of the new Navy, adopting the military ranks of lieutenant and captain. These officers often had no knowledge of life on board a ship — let alone how to navigate such a vessel — and relied on the expertise of the ship's Master and other seamen who tended to the technical aspects of running the ship. As cannon came into use, the officers also required gunnery experts.
These sailors became indispensable to the running of the ship and were rewarded with a royal warrant. The warrant was a special designation, designed to set them apart from other sailors, yet not violate the class system that was prevalent during the time.
Nevertheless, while the class distinctions embodied by the distinction between commission and warrant were important at Court and in society both at home and abroad, on board ship a person's status has always depended more on the practical importance of the job that he did rather than the formalities of commission or warrant. Admiralty commissions were therefore never accorded the unique status that the Queen's commission holds in the Army, and in the hierarchy of a Royal Navy ship important warrant officers such as the Master would outrank commissioned officers such as the marine Lieutenants.
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Dare I add this...
A WO in the SA Air Force (which has its military etiquette & traditions based on the RAF) does not get saluted, so if you're a RAF Master Aircrew or WO planning a visit to South Africa please don't expect to get saluted...
A WO in the SA Air Force (which has its military etiquette & traditions based on the RAF) does not get saluted, so if you're a RAF Master Aircrew or WO planning a visit to South Africa please don't expect to get saluted...
I have no specific agenda. However, due to possible misunderstandings, I think that WO ranks in other NATO armies should be more closely aligned with those in the US Armed Forces.
Why, when NATO has 26 member states, should we all pander to the whims of one?
Now, shall we clear this one up - You don't hold the Queen's Commission, I wouldn't salute your rank, live with it, there are more important things in life.
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dream on
Anyone that thinks that an Army WO compares in any way with an RAF WO is seriously deluded. Most of the ones I had any dealings with were probably at Chief/FS level at best.
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I take it that CW2 is US Army as USAF does not have use the warrant officers rank:
The USAF inherited warrant officer ranks from the Army at its inception in 1947, but their place in the Air Force structure was never made clear. The US Air Force stopped appointing warrant officers in 1959, the same year the first promotions were made to the new top enlisted grade, Chief Master Sergeant. Most of the existing US Air Force warrant officers entered the commissioned officer ranks during the 1960s, but tiny numbers continued to exist for the next 21 years.
The last active duty Air Force warrant officer, CWO-4 James H. Long, retired in 1980 and the last Air Force Reserve warrant officer, CWO-4 Bob Barrow, retired in 1992. Since then, the Air Force warrant officer ranks, while still authorized by law, are not used.
The USAF inherited warrant officer ranks from the Army at its inception in 1947, but their place in the Air Force structure was never made clear. The US Air Force stopped appointing warrant officers in 1959, the same year the first promotions were made to the new top enlisted grade, Chief Master Sergeant. Most of the existing US Air Force warrant officers entered the commissioned officer ranks during the 1960s, but tiny numbers continued to exist for the next 21 years.
The last active duty Air Force warrant officer, CWO-4 James H. Long, retired in 1980 and the last Air Force Reserve warrant officer, CWO-4 Bob Barrow, retired in 1992. Since then, the Air Force warrant officer ranks, while still authorized by law, are not used.
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Oxoneil - I can't agree.
Anyone that thinks that an Army WO compares in any way with an RAF WO is seriously deluded. Most of the ones I had any dealings with were probably at Chief/FS level at best.
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Yep, kinda agree with that one. Worked very closely with some WO2s (all around 30 years old) recently and was gobsmacked at how bright, hardworking and switched on they were. Put my inappropriate preconceptions in their place. Clearly only a narrow group I worked with, but closer to RAF junior officers than RAF WOs in my view.
RAF WOs have the benefit of much more experience and are generally a different beast - I would not seek to compare the 2!
RAF WOs have the benefit of much more experience and are generally a different beast - I would not seek to compare the 2!