Are Master Aircrew Warrant Officers?
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ZH875
Why? Bl**by obvious why, Chief_Two. Like so many of your countrymen and woman they are being faultlessly polite and welcoming to a visitor. They probably don't care a jot whether Roush is an E9 or where his equivalence is in the NATO tables, and probably don't think that the rules of cricket should be changed to baseball so its easier for them to understand. They probably respect Roush as an experienced professional and if they call him 'sir' that only reflects on their professionalism and respect for 'our' customs and traditions. You might like to have a chat with them, you might pick up a few points.
Let's avoid personal abuse. However I would still like an answer to my question.
Quote:
Roush: I've been lucky enough to have been holding an RAF post within the USAF for the past three years and have never had a single issue. The enlisted (E9 included) address me as Sir and the commissioned ranks address me as Mr. Best rank in the Air Force. Chief_Two: ....a USAF E9 is expected to address a British Warrant Officer of the same status as 'Sir'.
Why??
Quote:
Roush: I've been lucky enough to have been holding an RAF post within the USAF for the past three years and have never had a single issue. The enlisted (E9 included) address me as Sir and the commissioned ranks address me as Mr. Best rank in the Air Force. Chief_Two: ....a USAF E9 is expected to address a British Warrant Officer of the same status as 'Sir'.
Why??
Fly Conventional Gear
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They probably respect Roush as an experienced professional and if they call him 'sir' that only reflects on their professionalism and respect for 'our' customs and traditions. You might like to have a chat with them, you might pick up a few points.
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Maybe the US Forces should align themselves with the rest of the world!!
Fly Conventional Gear
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To be fair Chief 2 according to the Wikipedia article cited earlier it is only Greece, Poland and Romania that use the Warrant Officer system in the same way that the US does so if anyone needs to re-align it is you.
Your original question was fair enough, but it never ceases to amaze me how much consternation this subject causes.
Lets not let this damage Anglo-American relations and lets all start showing some solidarity over things that actually matter.
Your original question was fair enough, but it never ceases to amaze me how much consternation this subject causes.
Lets not let this damage Anglo-American relations and lets all start showing some solidarity over things that actually matter.
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Your original question was fair enough
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CW/CWO in Officers' Mess
Whilst this seems to be another blatant troll, I have learned plenty of military history on this thread, so cheers for the historical quips etc 
There was a US Navy CWO-4 (CW-4 US Army) in the mess of an Oxonian helicopter base this lunchtime. I don't suppose for one minute that half of the occupants in the mess knew what strange rank badge he was wearing, nor did they probably care. Just food for thought whilst I was thinking of my food.
There was a US Navy CWO-4 (CW-4 US Army) in the mess of an Oxonian helicopter base this lunchtime. I don't suppose for one minute that half of the occupants in the mess knew what strange rank badge he was wearing, nor did they probably care. Just food for thought whilst I was thinking of my food.
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To be fair Chief 2 according to the Wikipedia article cited earlier it is only Greece, Poland and Romania that use the Warrant Officer system in the same way that the US does so if anyone needs to re-align it is you.
Your original question was fair enough, but it never ceases to amaze me how much consternation this subject causes.
On another subject, why doesn't the RAF have WO2s?
Fly-Friendly
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Army WO1 level 7 high band - £43 077
RAF MACR level 7 high band - £43 077 + £6 780 flying pay = £49 857
and lets not talk about PA spine !!!
I know which I would rather be, dont care what people think is or is not a Warrant Officer.....SHOW ME THE MONEY!!
RAF MACR level 7 high band - £43 077 + £6 780 flying pay = £49 857
and lets not talk about PA spine !!!
I know which I would rather be, dont care what people think is or is not a Warrant Officer.....SHOW ME THE MONEY!!
I know which I would rather be, dont care what people think is or is not a Warrant Officer.....SHOW ME THE MONEY!!
Shaun
Chiefy Too
Why did the US Forces not adopt the Royal Navy / Royal Marines / British Army and Royal Air Force rank systems - after all, they are all (I believe) junior to their UK counterpart.
So .... why does the US Air Force not have, for example, a Chief Technician rank?
Why does the US Army not have, for example, the rank of Cornet (the ranks held by Prince William and Harry)?
etc etc etc.
Troll off back to your little world. Have you asked the question on www.military.com yet? I'm sure they would boost your ego, call you Sir a few times and maybe throw up a salute or two. Have you had your mid-morning snack yet - must nearly be time for your morning nap.
Why did the US Forces not adopt the Royal Navy / Royal Marines / British Army and Royal Air Force rank systems - after all, they are all (I believe) junior to their UK counterpart.
So .... why does the US Air Force not have, for example, a Chief Technician rank?
Why does the US Army not have, for example, the rank of Cornet (the ranks held by Prince William and Harry)?
etc etc etc.
Troll off back to your little world. Have you asked the question on www.military.com yet? I'm sure they would boost your ego, call you Sir a few times and maybe throw up a salute or two. Have you had your mid-morning snack yet - must nearly be time for your morning nap.
Fly Conventional Gear
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I've studied the Wikipedia article and it has some inaccuracies. I don't know about Romania, but Greece's and Poland's WOs are NATO OR9s.
). The Wikipedia article answered your original question anyway, so does the RAF website and numerous other threads.
Brit WOs are very conscious of their status
No more than any other rank really, as long WOs in the RAF are shown the respect and courtesy appropriate to their rank then most are happy. I hope you aren't accusing British Warrant Officers being insecure because of their apparent inferiority compared to US ones because I can assure you they are NOT.
On another subject, why doesn't the RAF have WO2s?
and are happy to leave it at that!
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I hope you aren't accusing British Warrant Officers being insecure because of their apparent inferiority compared to US ones because I can assure you they are NOT
Worked very closely with some WO2s (all around 30 years old) recently and was gobsmacked at how bright, hardworking and switched on they were. Put my inappropriate preconceptions in their place. Clearly only a narrow group I worked with, but closer to RAF junior officers than RAF WOs in my view.
Fly Conventional Gear
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I don't know whether this is a culture difference or something but you do seem to be attaching a lot more importance to the concept of rank than most in the UK military would.
I again draw your attention to the following, it sums up the issue nicely...
I know the US and Britain have been long term allies (and I for one am all for that) but your average Warrant Officer in the Army thinks mostly of his rank in terms of the UK's military. You will inevitably come across a variation in the competence of a group of people of the same rank, but after working with someone I don't really judge their competence by their rank, although I may privately judge whether there rank is appropriate to their competence. Recognising rank is about recognising the experience and authority behind that rank (and in the case of officers the Queen) not rank itself.
I again draw your attention to the following, it sums up the issue nicely...
Why? Bl**by obvious why, Chief_Two. Like so many of your countrymen and woman they are being faultlessly polite and welcoming to a visitor. They probably don't care a jot whether Roush is an E9 or where his equivalence is in the NATO tables, and probably don't think that the rules of cricket should be changed to baseball so its easier for them to understand. They probably respect Roush as an experienced professional and if they call him 'sir' that only reflects on their professionalism and respect for 'our' customs and traditions. You might like to have a chat with them, you might pick up a few points.
I feel an affinity for British Army WO2s as in terms of age and competence they appear to be very similar to US Army CW2s.
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F/Sgt
A courteous and erudite response. The RAF should promote you to WO (or MACR?
) immediately! 
I note on the WO2 issue that in the Australian Armed Forces, their Army WO2, who is classified as a Warrant Officer, corresponds to a RAAF Flight Sergeant, a Senior NCO. Both are E8s (OR8s). A subtle difference from the British Armed Forces on which the Australians base their ranks.
A courteous and erudite response. The RAF should promote you to WO (or MACR?
) immediately! I note on the WO2 issue that in the Australian Armed Forces, their Army WO2, who is classified as a Warrant Officer, corresponds to a RAAF Flight Sergeant, a Senior NCO. Both are E8s (OR8s). A subtle difference from the British Armed Forces on which the Australians base their ranks.
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Chief_two:
I've kinda been quietly "following you around" on this and other boards and am an ex RAF type and someone who has now lived almost 20 years in the USA and have friends in the US military who are generally of the "other rank" persuasion yet are in my age group, (hence tend to be "seniors"). I can say that anyone, (Brit or Yank), who has a preoccupation with the minutia of where their rank puts them in the world, (like you clearly do), is in that rank, and probably in the military, for all the _wrong_ reasons... Do yourself, (Read: your unit), a favour and retire... there's a good chap....
I've kinda been quietly "following you around" on this and other boards and am an ex RAF type and someone who has now lived almost 20 years in the USA and have friends in the US military who are generally of the "other rank" persuasion yet are in my age group, (hence tend to be "seniors"). I can say that anyone, (Brit or Yank), who has a preoccupation with the minutia of where their rank puts them in the world, (like you clearly do), is in that rank, and probably in the military, for all the _wrong_ reasons... Do yourself, (Read: your unit), a favour and retire... there's a good chap....
Fly Conventional Gear
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err that would be some massive promotion, he is an Air Cadet
I might add though you are not entirely accurate; one might have assumed after having read my question about Breitlings that I was actually a RAF cadet in a school CCF (which I am) and not in the ATC (and hence CAN be promoted straight to [cadet] Warrant Officer).
Either way though when I get into the regulars I'll be on the look out for rampant US Warrant Officers!!!!
Last edited by Contacttower; 6th Jun 2007 at 22:36.
Fly Conventional Gear
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I was implying that it must be obvious that I am a spoilt brat who must obviously go to the sort of school that would have a CCF!!!
At least I admit that I am a wannabe! (hopefully not for long though)
At least I admit that I am a wannabe! (hopefully not for long though)
Last edited by Contacttower; 7th Jun 2007 at 13:41.
