Vulcan unlikely at Falklands 25 flypast
Suspicion breeds confidence
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Vulcan unlikely at Falklands 25 flypast
Dr Pleming dropped the loudest hint that the Vulcan would not be airworthy for the Falklands 25 fly past. Its at least at least 3+ weeks away from its first test flight. They have ordered 37,000 litres of jet fuel. Nice to see the folks at Waddo pitching in with offers of help as well.
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Remembering what my old dad said, somewhat reminiscent of getting the 1st Prototype ready for the '52 Farnborough display. I wonder if the ghost of Dobbie's there cracking his whip!
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When that big beastie gets airborne I'm going out and getting pissed to celebrate, and I will down a few in memory of all our fallen. And the first chance I get, I'm going to take the wife under its wing
However when thay get it in the air it will probably get tasked for an afgan run
However when thay get it in the air it will probably get tasked for an afgan run
Suspicion breeds confidence
Thread Starter
Sadly not. The bombing gear, H2S radar and in all 5 tons of material have been removed to be replaced by steel ballast. Limited as she is to 350kts at 15,000ft, it would be a long trip.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I'm not going to get pissed, I am going to marham to watch Tombstone with the rose between his cheeks.
He's probably hoping we've forgotten....
Fat chance - and I'm sure that Joanna and the Primetime team will be happy to film the event for posterity... Posterior-ty?
Fat chance - and I'm sure that Joanna and the Primetime team will be happy to film the event for posterity... Posterior-ty?
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Sadly not. The bombing gear, H2S radar and in all 5 tons of material have been removed to be replaced by steel ballast. Limited as she is to 350kts at 15,000ft, it would be a long trip.
Just to clarify a few points, hopefully without sounding too pedantic, the aircraft actually has a ceiling of 17,500ft, and any ballast needed to maintain the C of G in limits would be the actual deleted items themselves, for example, rudimentery calculations suggest that the aircraft is only around .5" outside of its aft limit, so it's highly likely that the only ballast required would be the H2S scanner, to bring it back into limits. Of course, we have deleted that much, we have an enormous amount of ballast to use if req'd, from the Scanner all the way back to Red Steer, so there will be no need for any steel ballast, which would need design approval, etc, etc.....
Oh, and as an aside. I'm very much looking forward to Tombstone's performance too, and I know that Joanna and Primetime are also very keen not to miss it, and give Tombstone the wider audience he so richly deserves!!
Flipflopman
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You might as well get pissed PN, I know I'm going to have to be!
My initial post on the original Vulcan thread should be moved to the 'Things you wished you'd never said' thread.
However, I am a man of my word.
My initial post on the original Vulcan thread should be moved to the 'Things you wished you'd never said' thread.
However, I am a man of my word.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
I was talking to one of the gentlemen at Wellsbourne Aviation Museum last weekend, and while 'the boys' were having a look around the cockpit of the B1 there, XA903 (nose only), we chatted about the amount of work left to do in order for the XH558 flying in time, despite there being 60 odd people working on her. It seems rather tight.
To be able to sit in the pilots seat in the B2, XL360, at Coventry and having seen XM655 ground taxi at Wellsbourne there will be nothing to beat seeing a Vulcan take to the air once more .
As a young lad, I clearly remember the displays along Plymouth Hoe, bomb bays open with that impressive deafening roar. To experience that once more, not just for the older generations but more importantly for the younger, would be truely awesome.
http://www.tvoc.co.uk/
http://www.midlandairmuseum.co.uk/aircraft.php
http://www.2av8.co.uk/pages/wellsbou...llsbourneg.htm
To be able to sit in the pilots seat in the B2, XL360, at Coventry and having seen XM655 ground taxi at Wellsbourne there will be nothing to beat seeing a Vulcan take to the air once more .
As a young lad, I clearly remember the displays along Plymouth Hoe, bomb bays open with that impressive deafening roar. To experience that once more, not just for the older generations but more importantly for the younger, would be truely awesome.
http://www.tvoc.co.uk/
http://www.midlandairmuseum.co.uk/aircraft.php
http://www.2av8.co.uk/pages/wellsbou...llsbourneg.htm
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Vulcan Fly Pasts
Would still like to hear from somone who was aboard the aircaft carrier in Lyme Bay in the late 50s. The carrier was there in a restricted area and at risk without clearance close to where I had just unloaded a full weapon bay of inert 500 pounders from XA892. Flew a long final with the gear down as if to catch a wire.
Over the deck, and tempted to touch the right mains, the steep pull up at max power must have startled the imcumbents and perhaps blasted some loose bits over the side.
Would still like to hear from somone who was aboard the aircaft carrier in Lyme Bay in the late 50s. The carrier was there in a restricted area and at risk without clearance close to where I had just unloaded a full weapon bay of inert 500 pounders from XA892. Flew a long final with the gear down as if to catch a wire.
Over the deck, and tempted to touch the right mains, the steep pull up at max power must have startled the imcumbents and perhaps blasted some loose bits over the side.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
SiloeSid,
Can you imagine hearing the roar of the Vulcan as it thundered overhead at 200 feet, bomb doors open, as you gazed in amazement at an aircraft you had never seen before?
The citizens of Leningrad would indeed have been impressed.
Can you imagine hearing the roar of the Vulcan as it thundered overhead at 200 feet, bomb doors open, as you gazed in amazement at an aircraft you had never seen before?
The citizens of Leningrad would indeed have been impressed.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Ceiling Limit
What is the reason for the ceiling limit of 17500 ft?
Is it to do with ATC, upper airspace, and nav aids?
The 350 kts of course was the peacetime upper speed limit below 10000 ft. We did the proving flight flying for one hour at 350 kts. Doesn't sound much but at 10000 ft up the North Sea in a straight line we were at exactly the wrong height for everyone. Doesn't sound far either but if you start at the Norfolk coast . . .
Is it to do with ATC, upper airspace, and nav aids?
The 350 kts of course was the peacetime upper speed limit below 10000 ft. We did the proving flight flying for one hour at 350 kts. Doesn't sound much but at 10000 ft up the North Sea in a straight line we were at exactly the wrong height for everyone. Doesn't sound far either but if you start at the Norfolk coast . . .
Airframe restrictions aside, the aircraft will be on a permit-to-fly which will mean VFR, VMC only - so FL195 upwards would not be possible. Also as a civilian aircraft it will be subject to the ANO and will have to observe the Class G speed limit of 250kts below 10,000 feet.
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And the first chance I get, I'm going to take the wife under its wing
The '250 below 10' rule can be waived by the Authority. See the ANO:
Speed Limitation
23 (1) Subject to paragraph (3), an aircraft shall not fly below flight level 100 at a speed which according to its air speed indicator is more than 250 knots unless it is flying in accordance with the terms of a written permission of the Authority.
No reason, therefore, why the Vulcan should not fly in excess of 250KIAS in Class G airspace if the CAA provides written permission.
But there would be no need - and, in any case, flying at lower speeds will use less fatigue and less fuel.
Speed Limitation
23 (1) Subject to paragraph (3), an aircraft shall not fly below flight level 100 at a speed which according to its air speed indicator is more than 250 knots unless it is flying in accordance with the terms of a written permission of the Authority.
No reason, therefore, why the Vulcan should not fly in excess of 250KIAS in Class G airspace if the CAA provides written permission.
But there would be no need - and, in any case, flying at lower speeds will use less fatigue and less fuel.
Suspicion breeds confidence
Thread Starter
Flipflop,
I'm sure you are right, but Dr Pleming was asked directly on the subject and he said that we are not going end up with a "lighter, go faster version" and the aircraft is going to be weighed in the next 3 weeks to ensure that it meets its minimum take-off weight and that if CofG and weight distributiom is in accordance with the manufacturers specs.
I'm sure you are right, but Dr Pleming was asked directly on the subject and he said that we are not going end up with a "lighter, go faster version" and the aircraft is going to be weighed in the next 3 weeks to ensure that it meets its minimum take-off weight and that if CofG and weight distributiom is in accordance with the manufacturers specs.
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Navaleye,
With regard to what Dr Pleming has stated, he is correct in that the aircraft will not be transformed into an amazing "Super Vulcan" capable of vertical take offs and the like! However, she will indeed be far lighter than any previous incarnation on the Vulcan. Having said this, there is clearly a Min TOW for the aircraft, and therefore, there is only a set amount of weight that can be removed from the aircraft before we start having to put some back in.
Regarding the requirement to bring it back to Min TOW, this appears not to be an issue. In fact, even with the enormous amount of deletions and removals that have taken place, the aircraft is still over its Minimum Take Off Weight by quite a margin, so the addition of ballast to achieve this is not applicable. The C of G is another issue however, and as you can imagine, although there has been a comprehensive list of all items removed, with each item weighed and its moment calculated, this can never be totally accurate until the aircraft is back on its undercarriage and weighed accurately. As I said in my last post however, our current calculations show that the C of G is presently only 0.5" aft of the Aft Limit. This leads us to believe that the addition of the H2S scanner is all the ballast that will be required to be added to the aircraft in order to be safely within all C of G limits and Min Take Off Weight considerations.
Hope that clears up any issues
Flipflopman
With regard to what Dr Pleming has stated, he is correct in that the aircraft will not be transformed into an amazing "Super Vulcan" capable of vertical take offs and the like! However, she will indeed be far lighter than any previous incarnation on the Vulcan. Having said this, there is clearly a Min TOW for the aircraft, and therefore, there is only a set amount of weight that can be removed from the aircraft before we start having to put some back in.
Regarding the requirement to bring it back to Min TOW, this appears not to be an issue. In fact, even with the enormous amount of deletions and removals that have taken place, the aircraft is still over its Minimum Take Off Weight by quite a margin, so the addition of ballast to achieve this is not applicable. The C of G is another issue however, and as you can imagine, although there has been a comprehensive list of all items removed, with each item weighed and its moment calculated, this can never be totally accurate until the aircraft is back on its undercarriage and weighed accurately. As I said in my last post however, our current calculations show that the C of G is presently only 0.5" aft of the Aft Limit. This leads us to believe that the addition of the H2S scanner is all the ballast that will be required to be added to the aircraft in order to be safely within all C of G limits and Min Take Off Weight considerations.
Hope that clears up any issues
Flipflopman
Last edited by flipflopman RB199; 21st May 2007 at 09:39.
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Mr Flipflop, I'm sure you know what you're doing but there's something I'm not getting here. Are you saying that with the Red Steer and all of the active ECM removed, Red Shrimp locations, the removal of the NBS scanner still leaves the aircraft tail heavy. Just curious.
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Forget,
While there is obviously a massive amount of variables to take into account, in XH558's particular case, the answer is yes.
It must be borne in mind that XH558 was already flying without the VCCP and ECM cans fitted to the tail housing, and instead had the 'E' Cylindrical tank fitted, with an 8000lb (I believe) fuel load to counter. Don't forget that in addition to the actual Red Steer scanner unit, all of the associated control boxes have been deleted, including all of the old NBS and MFS equipment from the cockpit and nose undercarriage bay. When you begin to think of the amount of weight in those 'Black Boxes' located behind the Nav table, under the Pilot's floor and in the nosewheel bay, you can begin to understand where some of the weight shift has gone. Add to that the removal of the Air Ventilated Suit kit and you can see that an awful lot of equipment that was located a fair distance forward of the aircraft's datum, has disappeared.
As I said earlier, until we get it on the floor and weigh it properly, we cannot be 100% sure, but even so, half an inch out, isn't that much when you think about what has been removed!!
Hope this helps answer those niggles
Flipflopman
While there is obviously a massive amount of variables to take into account, in XH558's particular case, the answer is yes.
It must be borne in mind that XH558 was already flying without the VCCP and ECM cans fitted to the tail housing, and instead had the 'E' Cylindrical tank fitted, with an 8000lb (I believe) fuel load to counter. Don't forget that in addition to the actual Red Steer scanner unit, all of the associated control boxes have been deleted, including all of the old NBS and MFS equipment from the cockpit and nose undercarriage bay. When you begin to think of the amount of weight in those 'Black Boxes' located behind the Nav table, under the Pilot's floor and in the nosewheel bay, you can begin to understand where some of the weight shift has gone. Add to that the removal of the Air Ventilated Suit kit and you can see that an awful lot of equipment that was located a fair distance forward of the aircraft's datum, has disappeared.
As I said earlier, until we get it on the floor and weigh it properly, we cannot be 100% sure, but even so, half an inch out, isn't that much when you think about what has been removed!!
Hope this helps answer those niggles
Flipflopman