Nimrod Information
Join Date: Nov 2006
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DV,
Prior to the accident the straight and level stall speed was the only stall speed immediately available on a vital data card to the pilot. This is what was meant by "documented". The stall speed in a manoeuvre, where G force is higher, will be higher. There was another discussion on pprune about this a few weeks ago. After the accident it was decided that the worst case manoeuvre stalling speed be put on the card, thus hopefully preventing another excursion outside the flight envelope.
Hope this helps.
By the way, folks, Mr Jimmy Jones, the man on tonights Panorama, is an ex flight engineer, who was involved with the flight testing of the Nimrod prior to its release to service. He will tell us (again) that the Nimrod was never designed for the Middle East. It is a fact that it was never tested in the Middle East, but that doesn't mean that the aircraft cannot operate there. It was tested for its intended use in the Cold War over the N Atlantic. This bloke obviously feels that he is some kind of Nimrod guru/forefather. The limited time and experience he gained on the Nimrod doesn't come anywhere near to the experience of some of today's Nimrod aircrew. I would take his words with a pinch of salt.
Prior to the accident the straight and level stall speed was the only stall speed immediately available on a vital data card to the pilot. This is what was meant by "documented". The stall speed in a manoeuvre, where G force is higher, will be higher. There was another discussion on pprune about this a few weeks ago. After the accident it was decided that the worst case manoeuvre stalling speed be put on the card, thus hopefully preventing another excursion outside the flight envelope.
Hope this helps.
By the way, folks, Mr Jimmy Jones, the man on tonights Panorama, is an ex flight engineer, who was involved with the flight testing of the Nimrod prior to its release to service. He will tell us (again) that the Nimrod was never designed for the Middle East. It is a fact that it was never tested in the Middle East, but that doesn't mean that the aircraft cannot operate there. It was tested for its intended use in the Cold War over the N Atlantic. This bloke obviously feels that he is some kind of Nimrod guru/forefather. The limited time and experience he gained on the Nimrod doesn't come anywhere near to the experience of some of today's Nimrod aircrew. I would take his words with a pinch of salt.
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Thank you AC Ovee. So the pilot flew to the card speed. Then after the accident it was increased. That's why the pilot concerneed had 120 knts stall in HIS book. And there isn't a story?
DV
DV
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£2bn pounds over budget. 10 years late. Disgusting.
I feel sorry for all the people still left who are trying there best with a sheer lack of resources.
Disgusting behaviour.
I feel sorry for all the people still left who are trying there best with a sheer lack of resources.
Disgusting behaviour.
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I would say, "and so he should", although I am willing to concede that there wouldn't have been a little favourable editing going on in the beebs favour.
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i disagree-i think the beeb did a good job; they put the case in a manner which will appeal to their audience. And ACM Torpy looked very uncomfortable IMHO. Pretty much everything that was said about Nimrods (old kit, temporary patches remaining permanent, cannibalisation to keep frames flying) can also be applied to C130K, Tristar and the VC-10....Disgusting state of affairs...Its like a flying museum.
Couldn't have put it better than Air Vice-Marshal Brian Robinson, full pint job with half-pint resources. How much longer can this go on? New nimrod over budget over time, A400m still not here, FSTA never likley to be here, Tristar having glass cockpit retrofitted, C130J ragged to death through over-use...Absolute fu@king disgrace.
Couldn't have put it better than Air Vice-Marshal Brian Robinson, full pint job with half-pint resources. How much longer can this go on? New nimrod over budget over time, A400m still not here, FSTA never likley to be here, Tristar having glass cockpit retrofitted, C130J ragged to death through over-use...Absolute fu@king disgrace.
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DV
So the pilot flew to the card speed. Then after the accident it was increased. That's why the pilot concerneed had 120 knts stall in HIS book.
On the very rare occasions outside flying training that one gets close to the stall speed, one relies on the aircraft stall warning characteristics to avoid the stall.
I can't see where your question is going.
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And what exactly did Jimmy Jones bring to that programme other than extremely dated information. I'm sorry but having proudly served on the 'Rod just recently his arguments are way off the mark.
Does he think that the AAR kit was bolted on in 82 by a bunch of kwik-fit fitters (no offence intended) and never looked at Since??? Great respect to the guy for what he has done and his vast experience, but how relevant is it to what the fleet is doing now?
The 'Rod, like the vast majority of the UKs Forces is paying the price of a generation (maybe more) of under-investment and inadequate support. The forces people that fly and support her, by their very nature, just get on with it and kick up little fuss.
I just wish that I could flick a switch and awaken this bloody country into realising that her once Great British Forces needs their support and quick.
Man I'm angry!
SpSp
Does he think that the AAR kit was bolted on in 82 by a bunch of kwik-fit fitters (no offence intended) and never looked at Since??? Great respect to the guy for what he has done and his vast experience, but how relevant is it to what the fleet is doing now?
The 'Rod, like the vast majority of the UKs Forces is paying the price of a generation (maybe more) of under-investment and inadequate support. The forces people that fly and support her, by their very nature, just get on with it and kick up little fuss.
I just wish that I could flick a switch and awaken this bloody country into realising that her once Great British Forces needs their support and quick.
Man I'm angry!
SpSp
Air Vice-Marshal Brian Robinson presided over the Tornado era when it started its robbing and spares shortages phase from early 80 to 91, but he made out this is a new thing he had only heard of last year on Nimrods. I know that people will say that it is irrelevant as there are more Tornadoes and they do not carry as many crew and you would be correct, my point is he implies that was he still in he would not accept what was happening, well he did when he was in and probably still would, so nothing would have changed.
I know the Nimrod is an old airframe, but if there are fuel leaks in the AAR system pipework, then as this was introduced at a much later date what is the link to the age of the airframe structure?
I know the Nimrod is an old airframe, but if there are fuel leaks in the AAR system pipework, then as this was introduced at a much later date what is the link to the age of the airframe structure?
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Snow Dog, forget it you must be a politician. Can not answer the simple question that has been put to you.
Let us try one more time. I am advised that the "card" stall speed for the turn was 120 knts. The BOI states that the a/c was doing 122 Knts and becomes a sub. Within hours a singal is sent which advises that the revised stall speed is 150 Knts. Do lights not flash for you?
DV
Let us try one more time. I am advised that the "card" stall speed for the turn was 120 knts. The BOI states that the a/c was doing 122 Knts and becomes a sub. Within hours a singal is sent which advises that the revised stall speed is 150 Knts. Do lights not flash for you?
DV
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I don't think we should be dismissing TV programmes about the dire state of the armed forces (no mattter how rubbish) as ****e. It may not have got the detail right but the underlying truth was exposed and we should be grateful (considering that there are obviously a few people who still believe in solely using the 'proper channels') that the Nimrod issue got an airing. Lets not forget that a lot of the British public is unaware of the true depth of the problems facing some parts of the armed forces and the BBC (along with MPs and others) does have a role to play in demonstrating the problems and hopefully adding to the pressure that will hopefully see them resolved.
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I found it quite uncomfortable viewing, notwithstanding some of the errors in detail that were broadcast unchecked. Torps did look uneasy, but then it's not easy to defend the indefensible. SWMBO asked if it was accurate, and I was about to go of on one about 'what people don't understand is that...' and then I stopped and thought about the bare facts. 14 dedicated and professional blokes died and it is reasonable to assume that the parlous state of airworthiness of this old and overworked aircraft probably contributed to this tragic loss. Worse still, we all know that these issues apply well beyond Nimrod and, when I do finally pull the plug on my time in blue, I will be torn, on the one hand, between an unwillingness to stay in a Service that is coming apart and, on the other, some feeling of loyalty/conscience that I ought to stay and try to help make it work.
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kermit looked far better pretending that he didn't have a hand up his ar*e than Torps did. Still, media for you.....................
UAVs bring em on. Live int??? Nah, me thought not.
UAVs bring em on. Live int??? Nah, me thought not.