What Do We Have Left
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What Do We Have Left
Having just read that the Jaguar is to be retired, I am left wondering if the Royal Air Force actually exists as an air force any longer!
Please don't be offended if you are AT, maritime or SH (even though there is little new and shiny to show for any of those fleets).
Yes we have Harrier's (but can only scrape up a few for deployment)
We don't have Sea Harrier (yes it's RN, but hope you get my drift here)
We will no longer have Jaguar
Typhoon is in the future, so of no operational use.
Dave, well need I say more on that.
Tornado ADV, no use in Afghanistan
Tornado GR4. ?
Do we actually have anything left, or am I missing something!
I am asking this, as when in military service, I was proud to be part of a professional group of people, doing as good a job as we could with limited equipment. But this seems to be going beyond a joke.
Sorry for this mini novel, but while out walking recently, I have regularly seen Sea King MK4's (or are they MK6 now), and cant help feeling both utmost respect, as well as trepidation that these professional, and skilled crews will soon be off to area's where their worn out cab's just are not up to the job.
Please don't be offended if you are AT, maritime or SH (even though there is little new and shiny to show for any of those fleets).
Yes we have Harrier's (but can only scrape up a few for deployment)
We don't have Sea Harrier (yes it's RN, but hope you get my drift here)
We will no longer have Jaguar
Typhoon is in the future, so of no operational use.
Dave, well need I say more on that.
Tornado ADV, no use in Afghanistan
Tornado GR4. ?
Do we actually have anything left, or am I missing something!
I am asking this, as when in military service, I was proud to be part of a professional group of people, doing as good a job as we could with limited equipment. But this seems to be going beyond a joke.
Sorry for this mini novel, but while out walking recently, I have regularly seen Sea King MK4's (or are they MK6 now), and cant help feeling both utmost respect, as well as trepidation that these professional, and skilled crews will soon be off to area's where their worn out cab's just are not up to the job.
Last edited by barnstormer1968; 28th Apr 2007 at 08:24.
What we have left is a bunch of lads and lasses, the majority of whom are busting their balls (or equivalent) in very difficult circumstances to get the job done. To that end it beggars belief that them in the big house seem to be doing their damdest to make these loyal hardworking folks lives more difficult on an almost daily basis.
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I read somewhere the other day that the Canberra equipped 35 squadrons in the RAF. Not 35 Sqn, but quantity thirty five squadrons. Maybe that would be too many to justify today, but things do seem to be "jam tomorrow", with plenty of equipment programs in the offing, e.g. F35, Typhoon, MRA4, FSTA, more Merlins and Chinooks. I'm sure the esteemed readership could be quick to point out obvious flaws in all of these equipment programs, but what really matters is what is fielded TODAY.
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(Barnstormer1968)Tornado IDV, no use in Afghanistan
Barnstormer, you say -
'Tornado IDV, no use in Afghanistan'
Where is it any use?
'Tornado IDV, no use in Afghanistan'
Where is it any use?
Last edited by FATTER GATOR; 25th Apr 2007 at 16:20. Reason: Speeling and clarity
I read somewhere the other day that the Canberra equipped 35 squadrons in the RAF. Not 35 Sqn, but quantity thirty five squadrons. Maybe that would be too many to justify today, but things do seem to be "jam tomorrow", with plenty of equipment programs in the offing, e.g. F35, Typhoon, MRA4, FSTA, more Merlins and Chinooks. I'm sure the esteemed readership could be quick to point out obvious flaws in all of these equipment programs, but what really matters is what is fielded TODAY.
However, this (look under the 'squadrons' button in the left margin) states: The RAF had 62 Canberra squadrons over the aircraft's time in service as well as numerous "Flights" and "Sections"
It then shows a table: The table below lists all the RAF squadrons that flew the Canberra and shows the squadron badge, the type flown, where based and brief details of the unit markings employed (if any).
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Fattor Gator
You need to see the bigger picture in all this.
Stop thinking of the Tornado IDV as a jet aircraft.. And think of it as a PROP aircraft. as in PROPAGANDA. I watched a news report from Iraq recently, where a large part of the reporting was that R.A.F. Tornado's were flying "top cover" for a U.S. air raid. I couldn't help feeling relieved for the U.S. crews, just in case nasty locals managed to fling rocks up high enough to be a threat... Oh hang on a minute, wasn't the day labour wanted to hide something bad. Must just be a co-incidence.
As for another post, stating at least we still have the army and navy, I'm not sure on that one either.
Stop thinking of the Tornado IDV as a jet aircraft.. And think of it as a PROP aircraft. as in PROPAGANDA. I watched a news report from Iraq recently, where a large part of the reporting was that R.A.F. Tornado's were flying "top cover" for a U.S. air raid. I couldn't help feeling relieved for the U.S. crews, just in case nasty locals managed to fling rocks up high enough to be a threat... Oh hang on a minute, wasn't the day labour wanted to hide something bad. Must just be a co-incidence.
As for another post, stating at least we still have the army and navy, I'm not sure on that one either.
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Barnstormer1968
Believe you may mean ADV (Air Defence Varient aka F3) rather than IDV. The Tornado operating in Iraq currently is the IDS (Interdiction/Strike aka GR4). The top cover we provide is CAS and the air raid was a formation of Blackhawks carrying out a tactical landing in a hostile environment. They were not just having rocks thrown at them and were infact extremely grateful for our support.
Regards,
Finrider
Regards,
Finrider
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Finrider
Please accept my apology for my typo. Yes I meant F3 ADV.
Also I fully realise how hard all of you guys/girls are working, but bearing in mind that MOST of the British population can't tell a Tornado from a VC10 (inc the BBC). The report went along the lines of Tornado FIGHTERS providing top cover for U.S. Aircraft. No mention of Blackhawk's etc. Had it said "Tornado GR4's providing CAS for U.S. Blackhawks" then that would have been a different matter (as in thousands of feet lower). The point was, I believe the story had more to do with something happening in the UK, rather than where you are. Thus the PROPAGANDA bit.
Barnstormer1968
Also I fully realise how hard all of you guys/girls are working, but bearing in mind that MOST of the British population can't tell a Tornado from a VC10 (inc the BBC). The report went along the lines of Tornado FIGHTERS providing top cover for U.S. Aircraft. No mention of Blackhawk's etc. Had it said "Tornado GR4's providing CAS for U.S. Blackhawks" then that would have been a different matter (as in thousands of feet lower). The point was, I believe the story had more to do with something happening in the UK, rather than where you are. Thus the PROPAGANDA bit.
Barnstormer1968
I did hear a vicious rumour a few days ago that we had some morale left.
However, apparently following a review it was deemed to be surplus to requirements and is going to be sold to a Japanese bank to fund the costs of the new headed notepaper for HQ Air.
However, apparently following a review it was deemed to be surplus to requirements and is going to be sold to a Japanese bank to fund the costs of the new headed notepaper for HQ Air.
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I think I read somewhere that many years ago the US provided a graph that showed the rising cost of aircraft against the falling military budget. The result was that the US military could afford only one aircraft and the USAF, US Marine Corps and US Navy would take turns to fly it. (Don't tell Brown or Browne)!! 
Old Ned ..... if you think that is bad, just have a look at this:
USAF Might Cut Pay For Surge
The rest of the article is here http://http://www.military.com/NewsC...,00.html?wh=wh
Now for God's sake don't tell Gordon THAT or he'll be getting more great ideas!
USAF Might Cut Pay For Surge
The Air Force’s top officer said Wednesday that if nearly $1 billion in personnel funds taken from the service to pay for combat in Iraq and Afghanistan isn’t restored by the end of the summer, Airmen and civilian employees might not get their pay.
Due to a congressional delay in approving a wartime supplemental funding bill this year, the Pentagon pulled about $880 million from the Air Force’s personnel accounts to make up for a shortfall it warned lawmakers would come in mid-April.
Due to a congressional delay in approving a wartime supplemental funding bill this year, the Pentagon pulled about $880 million from the Air Force’s personnel accounts to make up for a shortfall it warned lawmakers would come in mid-April.
Now for God's sake don't tell Gordon THAT or he'll be getting more great ideas!
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One needs to update one's knowledge before knocking the ADV/F3. The reality now is that it is a very capable weapons system within a less capable airframe/engine combination and, to a great extent, the weapons system and associated avionics updates compensate for performance deficits.
I know almost nothing about how far the Typhoon has come in that direction but I'd lay a bet that most Typhoon pilots would love to have the current weapons system capabilities already working in the ADV/F3.
That's not to say that the ADV/F3 is the best fighter but it's not too shabby. Put two well-trained RAF aircrew in it and it is a match for most single-seaters when the scenario suits it.
I know almost nothing about how far the Typhoon has come in that direction but I'd lay a bet that most Typhoon pilots would love to have the current weapons system capabilities already working in the ADV/F3.
That's not to say that the ADV/F3 is the best fighter but it's not too shabby. Put two well-trained RAF aircrew in it and it is a match for most single-seaters when the scenario suits it.
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"Lions led by donkeys", to quote General Erich Ludendorff.
More like Lions, led by donkeys, and given corks on their teeth for health + safety of the enemy...
Answer this - if, right now, we had another Falklands, would we win it? Hate to say it, but with the mistakes the civil serpents at Defence Procurement (or whatever its called now) have made over the years...
Im not entirely convinced we would.
More like Lions, led by donkeys, and given corks on their teeth for health + safety of the enemy...
Answer this - if, right now, we had another Falklands, would we win it? Hate to say it, but with the mistakes the civil serpents at Defence Procurement (or whatever its called now) have made over the years...
Im not entirely convinced we would.
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[Quote]Still got the Army and "Navy", if that helps?[\Quote]
You having a laugh?
anyway:-
Sea Harrier - gone
Jaguar - gone
Canberra - gone (But a civvie contractor will be operating it??)
Hunter - gone (but the MoD are leasing 3 for Military contracts in the UK)
What's next, the Sea Vixen and Vampire back in?
You having a laugh?
anyway:-
Sea Harrier - gone
Jaguar - gone
Canberra - gone (But a civvie contractor will be operating it??)
Hunter - gone (but the MoD are leasing 3 for Military contracts in the UK)
What's next, the Sea Vixen and Vampire back in?
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Well they have just completed a refit of the RAF last heavy bomber and it was out on it's airtest today, one wonders how long it will be till that adopts a desert scheme,
Ahhh the sound of four Merlins in close formation, and I don't mean the ones with the props on the roof.
Ahhh the sound of four Merlins in close formation, and I don't mean the ones with the props on the roof.