What Do We Have Left
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 694
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From: Lincs
Soddim,
You have been at the old cooking sherry again mate - the F3 a good weapopns platform?? now you are having a laugh!
The last time I went tanking in my E-3, the tanker had to come DOWN for the F-3, 'cos it couldn't get up that high! and it was empty. And the tanker was older than both of us put together!
Hmmmm I rest my case.
TSM
You have been at the old cooking sherry again mate - the F3 a good weapopns platform?? now you are having a laugh!
The last time I went tanking in my E-3, the tanker had to come DOWN for the F-3, 'cos it couldn't get up that high! and it was empty. And the tanker was older than both of us put together!
Hmmmm I rest my case.
TSM
TAC Int Bloke
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: UK
Just to get my pedantic quota (PQ) up, Ludendorff didn't say 'lions lead by donkeys' the quote was made-up by historian who's name escapes me at the moment and has been taken as fact ever since, especially by those whose anti-establishment agenda it fits (when discussing WW1) Subsequently it's been taken up by the world and his wife, no problem with that, just felt the need to point out its mythical origin
oh, I know, I'll get me gascape....
oh, I know, I'll get me gascape....
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,014
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From: Swindonshire
Just to help Maple's pedant quotient...
Alan Clark, that great wielder of the old actualite was the historian.
The line - or almost all of it - was first used (at least in the 20th Century) as far as can be ascertained by a Japanese officer who claimed that the Russians were 'Lions led by asses'. Source being Sir Ian Hamilton's diaries of his time when a staff officer assigned to observe the goings-on in the Russo-Japanese war.
Alan Clark, that great wielder of the old actualite was the historian.
The line - or almost all of it - was first used (at least in the 20th Century) as far as can be ascertained by a Japanese officer who claimed that the Russians were 'Lions led by asses'. Source being Sir Ian Hamilton's diaries of his time when a staff officer assigned to observe the goings-on in the Russo-Japanese war.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 38
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From: England
There is a real opportunity here - we could raffle off a place in the jump seat, probably lots of idiots out there who would pay big bucks to go on a REAL bombing mission. Maybe buy some spares with the proceeds?
Guest
Posts: n/a
You've still got 6 SH Squadrons operating 3 aircraft types, and a Rotary SAR fleet.
You probably haven't come across them as:
A. There always deployed.
B. As they aren't fast jets (most of which serve little purpose) they tend to be dismissed by the 'real RAF'.
Suggest you look at the sharp end a little closer.
Wokka Out
You probably haven't come across them as:
A. There always deployed.
B. As they aren't fast jets (most of which serve little purpose) they tend to be dismissed by the 'real RAF'.
Suggest you look at the sharp end a little closer.
Wokka Out
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: earth
No, Swinging Monkey, emphatically no cooking sherry - a few Timothy Taylor's maybe.
You're right about tanking height but the F3 does not normally have its' probe in the nosebag when it engages the opposition - nor does it have to fly so slowly. Your E3 might be happy below 300kts IAS but the F3 only needs to be that slow for tanking and landing.
In its' operating environment it is a capable fighter - not the best but the best we have right now.
You're right about tanking height but the F3 does not normally have its' probe in the nosebag when it engages the opposition - nor does it have to fly so slowly. Your E3 might be happy below 300kts IAS but the F3 only needs to be that slow for tanking and landing.
In its' operating environment it is a capable fighter - not the best but the best we have right now.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 124
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From: Out East
Melchett01
Ta. As Cpl Fraser (Dad's Army) would say "We're doomed, we're definately doomed".
However, we are not!! The boys (and girls) will raise to the occasion despite slack leadership at the top and the
politicians.
My stamping ground was FI and the work the boys did was unbelivable. (Even if PhanDet were olympic whimps!!
However, we are not!! The boys (and girls) will raise to the occasion despite slack leadership at the top and the
politicians.My stamping ground was FI and the work the boys did was unbelivable. (Even if PhanDet were olympic whimps!!
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: A lot closer to the sea
Soddim - only the best since the Sea Harrier retired! Now that was a
I am biased but I am not WEBF in disguise! Prepared for incoming as the thread title is "What do we have left?"!
very capable weapons system within a less capable airframe/engine combination
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 126
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From: .
'In its' operating environment it is a capable fighter'
soddim - granted, but since the F3 operating environment seems to be UK QRA, why can't we just have a single sqn, split into 2 flights, Northern at Lossie and Southern at Marham to cover Q? Then scrap the rest, close a few stations and then put all the saved money and personnel into something really useful like SH or AT.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 99
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From: Scotland
F3s The Best We Have!!!!
Just to put the F3 into perspective. Even UK Q is questionable. The biggest air threat to the UK is a hijacked airliner as per Sept 11. However, just how will the F3 ever get up to intercept and V ID the A330 or 737 in the cruise at FL330 or above?
I have heard that a nimrod returning from a trip up North (back in the days when there were serviceable ones) was to be intercepted by the Q jet which was launched on the MR2's arrival at the UK FIR boundary. It eventually managed the intercept as the nimrod was descending to Kinloss passing through F190 some 40 mins later. Then again I guess the only city under threat was Aberdeen!!
Wouldn't give the powers that be too much time to make the decision to shoot!! However, I wouldn't expect them to even make a decision.
I have heard that a nimrod returning from a trip up North (back in the days when there were serviceable ones) was to be intercepted by the Q jet which was launched on the MR2's arrival at the UK FIR boundary. It eventually managed the intercept as the nimrod was descending to Kinloss passing through F190 some 40 mins later. Then again I guess the only city under threat was Aberdeen!!
Wouldn't give the powers that be too much time to make the decision to shoot!! However, I wouldn't expect them to even make a decision.
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: .
What about Typhoon?
Nav attacking- in fairness AMRAAM could probably bridge the airframe performance gap for the F3. Typhoon may have its uses after all. As soon as they are ready to take on that role, they could bin the F3 and put the resources somewhere else (NHS knowling our luck). I'm pretty sure a Typhoon could catch an airliner.
Last edited by FATTER GATOR; 27th April 2007 at 12:46. Reason: Drunk again!
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: earth
There's a deal of misinformation here - take it from one who has done it - VIDs in the F3 are OK well above FL330. If you want to fly in close formation with the target, that is a different ball game.
Cannot comment on the report of the Nimrod intercept - would need a lot more information. However, I cannot envisage any performance problem that would preclude an intercept on this target and a VID. Weather might be a factor - one normally needs to see the target to get a positive ident.
Cannot comment on the report of the Nimrod intercept - would need a lot more information. However, I cannot envisage any performance problem that would preclude an intercept on this target and a VID. Weather might be a factor - one normally needs to see the target to get a positive ident.