Jaguar Farewell
I don't know what you fly, Chinecap, but whatever it is, it's a given that the Jag that you snipe at has a better JRP integration than your jet, a better TIALD capability, and I can be pretty sure that unlike the Jagmates you won't have EFRCs and ETAPs in your cockpit.
And if you're a Harrier mate, they have a better strafe capability than you have, they have an HMS and a higher off boresight defensive AAM capability, they are somewhat quicker at low level, and they could teach you something about serviceability, logistics footprint, rapid deployment capability, etc. etc.
GR.Mk 4 mates can pick some of the same 'missing items' from the list.
OK, they do struggle, hot and high, and the payload is tiny, but these jets have proved their operational utility and worth over the Balkans and on Northern Watch.
These jets were non-combatant only because giving them something obviously useful to do would have served to highlight and underline what a useful asset they still are - quite apart from being a bloody good way of keeping some of the RAF's finest current in a demanding cockpit and a useful role until the Typhoon austere air to ground capability comes along.
And if you're a Harrier mate, they have a better strafe capability than you have, they have an HMS and a higher off boresight defensive AAM capability, they are somewhat quicker at low level, and they could teach you something about serviceability, logistics footprint, rapid deployment capability, etc. etc.
GR.Mk 4 mates can pick some of the same 'missing items' from the list.
OK, they do struggle, hot and high, and the payload is tiny, but these jets have proved their operational utility and worth over the Balkans and on Northern Watch.
These jets were non-combatant only because giving them something obviously useful to do would have served to highlight and underline what a useful asset they still are - quite apart from being a bloody good way of keeping some of the RAF's finest current in a demanding cockpit and a useful role until the Typhoon austere air to ground capability comes along.
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Jacko - I am but a humble logistician interloper here who has never had a desire to fly. I was merely voicing the fact that the Jag has not flown on ops for some time and, as such, will be seen as a cost not worth paying (in cold hard fiscal terms - nothing else meant here). The MoD is procuring more equipment with less and has political pressures to stop boys and girls getting injured and killed at the current front line. Jaguar added nothing to this, and was not going to. It had to go. I agree - the method was V shabby.
Not a lot of use for current or potential future ops and yes - they did prove operational utility - over Eastern Europe.
I have no axe to grind with any platform. I also know nothing of maintaining currency of aircrew, but I can't see how maintaining a discreet aircraft that is not being used in any other role can be a viable method - in this day and age. I'm not being harsh here - just highlighting why I think these decisions are being made - it is a cold harsh unemotional world we're in these days.
OK, they do struggle, hot and high, and the payload is tiny, but these jets have proved their operational utility and worth over the Balkans and on Northern Watch.
I have no axe to grind with any platform. I also know nothing of maintaining currency of aircrew, but I can't see how maintaining a discreet aircraft that is not being used in any other role can be a viable method - in this day and age. I'm not being harsh here - just highlighting why I think these decisions are being made - it is a cold harsh unemotional world we're in these days.
CH - I thought they rather proved operational capability somewhere hot and sandy some 16 years ago, a short while before anyone thought of saying 'This Yugoslavia business is all a bit of a sham, let's declare independence'...
If you can't see the relevance of a single-seat multi-role platform, with a proven LDP capability, a well integrated recce pod and mission planner, with a helmet sight, ETAPS and EFRCs, then I can't help you.
Perhaps the Jagmates will be better placed for Typhoon by posting them to makeweight ground tours or instructing on the Tucano or on the UASs?
Why no show this time?
Because as soon as the Jaguar is used, it is obviously, publicly useful, thereby making its withdrawal without immediate replacement much more difficult to justify.
Had the Jags just come back from Kandahar, just imagine how much more fuss would there have been. There would have been no place for ill-informed pundits to make stupid remarks about aircraft not being useful.....
And this useless non-combatant jet had exactly the strafe capability that force commanders in Afghanistan have been demanding (the CAS capability that can "stop boys and girls getting injured and killed at the current front line" if you like), and which the Harrier cannot provide.
Perhaps the Jagmates will be better placed for Typhoon by posting them to makeweight ground tours or instructing on the Tucano or on the UASs?
Why no show this time?
Because as soon as the Jaguar is used, it is obviously, publicly useful, thereby making its withdrawal without immediate replacement much more difficult to justify.
Had the Jags just come back from Kandahar, just imagine how much more fuss would there have been. There would have been no place for ill-informed pundits to make stupid remarks about aircraft not being useful.....
And this useless non-combatant jet had exactly the strafe capability that force commanders in Afghanistan have been demanding (the CAS capability that can "stop boys and girls getting injured and killed at the current front line" if you like), and which the Harrier cannot provide.
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Are their weapons being thrown away or handed on to other types that are not operational/declared yet? If they are being thrown away, that involves a cost of destruction versus a benefit in training value of dropping them on a range. All they're saving is the fuel burn for 6 months. Counteract that with the pay wasted on guys who (presumably) have posting notices elsewhere in 6 months time and now have nothing to do. This is a bean counters victory and brings nothing but shame on the RAF!
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I think all weapons are compatible with other delivery systems, with exception of that v. important gun, can't think of any other platform using 30mm ADEN, mind you with the exception of Tornado theres nothing with a gun anyway is there? Long old capability holiday coming up then
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So sad to see 6 Squadron's record of unbroken service going to the wall. When we took the number on to F4's we made sure that we collected the standards and silver from the Canberra sqn in Akrotiri and reformed during the OCU course to keep this record intact.
I suppose to see that piece of RAF history coming to an end because of crisis management is a fair indication of why the services are in the state they are.
Time the head shed resigned and let the inmates run the asylum - no way could it be worse.
I suppose to see that piece of RAF history coming to an end because of crisis management is a fair indication of why the services are in the state they are.
Time the head shed resigned and let the inmates run the asylum - no way could it be worse.
Does the squadron actually lose its record, though, unless their airships formally disband it? ISTR that a squadron can formally exist even if it has no aeroplanes or personnel, no matter how counter-intuitive that may seem.
70 and 104 squadrons were both reduced to 'numberplate unmanned' status with the intention of reforming them (they were, in fact, disbanded at a later date, and reformed after that), but the time when they were in this abeyance counts towards the calculation of continuous service.
A more recent 'for instance' is 216 Sqn - 'disbanded' when absorbed into 12 Sqn in 1980 (after the Buccaneer grounding led to the force being reduced), it was never offically declared to have done so. When 216 became the Tri* unit in 1984, it reactivated rather than reformed.
70 and 104 squadrons were both reduced to 'numberplate unmanned' status with the intention of reforming them (they were, in fact, disbanded at a later date, and reformed after that), but the time when they were in this abeyance counts towards the calculation of continuous service.
A more recent 'for instance' is 216 Sqn - 'disbanded' when absorbed into 12 Sqn in 1980 (after the Buccaneer grounding led to the force being reduced), it was never offically declared to have done so. When 216 became the Tri* unit in 1984, it reactivated rather than reformed.
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Very sad to see the demise of yet another cornerstone of the RAF. I can only agree with Jacko and the rest in attesting to the superb skills and comradere of the 'Jag Mates'. Always a great bunch to fly with. To be kicked in the teeth at the end is just poor management.
With regard to the aircraft however, I defer to a visiting TP at Boscombe. Having just seen at first-hand the updates listed earlier, his comment was "very nice, but next time invest in a bit more wing area". IMHO you can only polish a turd so much....
With regard to the aircraft however, I defer to a visiting TP at Boscombe. Having just seen at first-hand the updates listed earlier, his comment was "very nice, but next time invest in a bit more wing area". IMHO you can only polish a turd so much....
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Sorry boys, a terrible way to go out. Keep your chins up and good luck with the next assignments.
See you at happy hour in June...let's say goodbye the same way we did to Colt!
See you at happy hour in June...let's say goodbye the same way we did to Colt!
I must admit the way the Coltishall wing /base closure occurred left a bad taste in the mouth. This just takes things a stage further.
The complete lack of foresight and apparent stumbling from one cutback to another, messing around the 'troops', bases and local communities is shameful. This has continued to the 'official' release of the closure announcement at such short notice.
The Jag force was an almost unique element - something of a hangover from WW2 almost, with its friendly, 'can-do' attitude and ability to produce results. I suspect much of this was from Coltishall itself - a small, flightline based setup, where everyone knew everyone else and could walk to see them in 5 mins ( ok dumpies, I'll ignore you ) The aircraft helped too of course. No electronics to tell you it was U/S meant the ability to make 'engineering decisions' and put up aircraft when other more modern types were sat on the tarmac.
21 years on type - I'll miss it - but I'm glad I bailed out with Coltishall - fond memories and I'm not sure I want to associate myself with the farcical withdrawal that will see this proud machine thrown away to save what is effectively peanuts – whilst next week the government will doubtless give a million to it’s latest worthy cause.
The complete lack of foresight and apparent stumbling from one cutback to another, messing around the 'troops', bases and local communities is shameful. This has continued to the 'official' release of the closure announcement at such short notice.
The Jag force was an almost unique element - something of a hangover from WW2 almost, with its friendly, 'can-do' attitude and ability to produce results. I suspect much of this was from Coltishall itself - a small, flightline based setup, where everyone knew everyone else and could walk to see them in 5 mins ( ok dumpies, I'll ignore you ) The aircraft helped too of course. No electronics to tell you it was U/S meant the ability to make 'engineering decisions' and put up aircraft when other more modern types were sat on the tarmac.
21 years on type - I'll miss it - but I'm glad I bailed out with Coltishall - fond memories and I'm not sure I want to associate myself with the farcical withdrawal that will see this proud machine thrown away to save what is effectively peanuts – whilst next week the government will doubtless give a million to it’s latest worthy cause.
There goes a bit of history. And so it always is... you want to see Lightnings? Go to South Africa. Tomcats? Iran. Jaguars?
Come on over. We've done a few more things to the Jag which you folks in the RAF might be pleased to hear. (Click here for specs on the latest Jag upgrade in the IAF - but scroll down to the bottom half of the page). They'll be flying to 2020 at least. The bird has served us well so far - thanks to your excellent designers
Come on over. We've done a few more things to the Jag which you folks in the RAF might be pleased to hear. (Click here for specs on the latest Jag upgrade in the IAF - but scroll down to the bottom half of the page). They'll be flying to 2020 at least. The bird has served us well so far - thanks to your excellent designers
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Just wanted to say a big 
to the Jag Crews who flew into Lossie yesterday. That 8-ship run-in-and-break was 1st class and brought a lump to the throat on such a sad occassion.
to the Jag Crews who flew into Lossie yesterday. That 8-ship run-in-and-break was 1st class and brought a lump to the throat on such a sad occassion.
One can only hope that a cadre of aircraft will be retained to meet planned display commitments - one understands that a Jag had been planned to lead the Queens Birthday Flypast.
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Waste
"Oh... how sad". Get a grip! 
Its a piece of metal, not a person. Only redeeming feature was the connection to 'viv'la France'.
The only thing sad is the amount of money our so called leaders have wasted, moving the aircraft from Colt for what has panned out to be 13 months flying. (Significantly, most of it on glamorous 'End Of Jag' detachments), which had it not been for the brilliance of JPA, would have wasted more MoD pennies.
It should never have moved. If it was retired last April, the money and manpower could have gone to Typhoon. Money would have been spent where it was needed and manpower (including, lets not forget, families) would not now be looking at postings again.
When the drafters wield the scythe and people get offers that incur penalties for the family, again the PVR rate will rise quicker than inflation. And unless the next OCU course is empty, there will be a few aircrew chums in that number, looking for Mr Branson and Co for employment!
Its a piece of metal, not a person. Only redeeming feature was the connection to 'viv'la France'.The only thing sad is the amount of money our so called leaders have wasted, moving the aircraft from Colt for what has panned out to be 13 months flying. (Significantly, most of it on glamorous 'End Of Jag' detachments), which had it not been for the brilliance of JPA, would have wasted more MoD pennies.
It should never have moved. If it was retired last April, the money and manpower could have gone to Typhoon. Money would have been spent where it was needed and manpower (including, lets not forget, families) would not now be looking at postings again.
When the drafters wield the scythe and people get offers that incur penalties for the family, again the PVR rate will rise quicker than inflation.
And unless the next OCU course is empty, there will be a few aircrew chums in that number, looking for Mr Branson and Co for employment!
My favourite Jag memory dates from a long long time ago, when I was still taking HM shilling (I think it probably was a shilling then....). I was jo-ed to do the commentary for the flying display for the Royal College of Defence Studies’ visit to HM Air Force. (RCDS, for anyone who doesn’t know, hosts Admirals, Generals and Air Marshals from all over the world, and tries to show them how things should be done. The way things are at the moment, perhaps they should be rethinking that...... Sorry, story creep)
So anyway, here is this polyglot bunch of very senior nebbies, on an airfield somewhere in E Stanglia, expecting HM finest to put on a stunning air show. Only thing is, cloudbase is zero. Nebbies unable to see much further than the far side of glass of G&T. Flying cnxd.
Nebbies stand around outside this marquee, wondering wtf’s going on. (As does yours truly, but without the G&T)
Suddenly, out of the grot, emerges this Jag, warp factor 6, altitude only fractionally greater than the ice on the G&Ts, and disappears as quickly as it appeared. Nebbies look startled, but excited.
An hour or so later, their excitement increases to awe when big piccies on shiny paper arrive. There they all are, clutching their G&Ts, pictured from fast-moving Jag in totally unfeasible wx conditions. Some of them look almost comically gobsmacked.
I’ve always thought that that one Jag flypast probably impressed them more than a couple of hours of highly choreographed show could ever have done.
That was the Jag force for me. We’ll miss you, guys and gals - and I too am gobsmacked, this time by the total and utter ineptitude of the current nebbies.
airsound
So anyway, here is this polyglot bunch of very senior nebbies, on an airfield somewhere in E Stanglia, expecting HM finest to put on a stunning air show. Only thing is, cloudbase is zero. Nebbies unable to see much further than the far side of glass of G&T. Flying cnxd.
Nebbies stand around outside this marquee, wondering wtf’s going on. (As does yours truly, but without the G&T)
Suddenly, out of the grot, emerges this Jag, warp factor 6, altitude only fractionally greater than the ice on the G&Ts, and disappears as quickly as it appeared. Nebbies look startled, but excited.
An hour or so later, their excitement increases to awe when big piccies on shiny paper arrive. There they all are, clutching their G&Ts, pictured from fast-moving Jag in totally unfeasible wx conditions. Some of them look almost comically gobsmacked.
I’ve always thought that that one Jag flypast probably impressed them more than a couple of hours of highly choreographed show could ever have done.
That was the Jag force for me. We’ll miss you, guys and gals - and I too am gobsmacked, this time by the total and utter ineptitude of the current nebbies.
airsound
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I seem to remember seeing an article about the sudden dismemberment of a Middle East assigned Sqn in the late 1960s - the first that the Sqn knew about it was when 2 of their Hunters appeared on the line wearing the markings of the Royal Jordanian Airforce.
Now where are those Omani stencils - near Lincolnshire perhaps?
Now where are those Omani stencils - near Lincolnshire perhaps?