psychologically sound?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: inside the train looking onto the platform.
psychologically sound?
Can anyone shed any light on the emerging requirement for Flt Cdrs to interview and sign a declaration that those under their command are mentally fit to deploy, and to re-interview their staff on return and offer comment on their return from OOA.
Where do non phsycologist qualified personnel stand legally if someone goes off on one either in theatre or once back in the UK. If I am to be be medicaly qualified by default of my position, can I also sign myself off for a couple of months with a bad back. Shouldnt this be the concern of the medical branch or is it an abrogation of their medical duty of care.
I interview as amtter of course to chat things through with my staff if they wish, both prior to deployment and upon return; but I wont sign a damn thing.
Where do non phsycologist qualified personnel stand legally if someone goes off on one either in theatre or once back in the UK. If I am to be be medicaly qualified by default of my position, can I also sign myself off for a couple of months with a bad back. Shouldnt this be the concern of the medical branch or is it an abrogation of their medical duty of care.
I interview as amtter of course to chat things through with my staff if they wish, both prior to deployment and upon return; but I wont sign a damn thing.
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From: Angel N1
Excellent, at last, I get to tell everyone that half of my lot are truly mad.
I wonder what would happen if you really did certify someone as "unsound"
Bet they would say you were discriminating and send them anyway.
I wonder what would happen if you really did certify someone as "unsound"
Bet they would say you were discriminating and send them anyway.
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From: Under a stone
T'other way round perhaps?
I think that it is best to allow subordinates to comment upon the mental capabilities of their own flight commanders! I've worked for a few mad b
ds in my time!!
(No, Not you Sir).
ds in my time!!(No, Not you Sir).
Guest
Posts: n/a
Oh good. More pressure on our hard pressed Flt Cdr's! Not content with being budget managers and juggling a shrinking pile of resources/personnel, we now expect them to conduct psychological analysis.
How legally binding are these analysis? How far are they going to 'drop' an overworked Flt Cdr who gets it wrong?
Absolute garbage!!!!!
How legally binding are these analysis? How far are they going to 'drop' an overworked Flt Cdr who gets it wrong?
Absolute garbage!!!!!
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: firmly on dry land
Can anyone shed any light on the emerging requirement for Flt Cdrs to interview and sign a declaration that those under their command are mentally fit to deploy, and to re-interview their staff on return and offer comment on their return from OOA.
"Are you mentally fit to deploy?"
No, no it is stupid and dangerous, I certainly don't feel I am mentally fit to deploy.
"Ah, quite right, no one of sound body and mind would admit to being fit to deploy - FIT, next"
with apologies to Joseph Heller.
Red On, Green On
Joined: May 2004
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From: Between the woods and the water
According to that fount of all wisdom, the Daily Mail, being mad can actually help you get promoted:
"Being mad does not always get you sent to an institution. Sometimes it gets you to the very top of your profession.
Experts believe that millions of us are, at least to some extent, displaying the signs of madness.
In the vast majority of cases it does us no real harm. In fact, some kinds of 'personality disorder' could even be an advantage, especially at work. "
So send the mad ones overseas - they will remember you when they achieve Air Rank
"Being mad does not always get you sent to an institution. Sometimes it gets you to the very top of your profession.
Experts believe that millions of us are, at least to some extent, displaying the signs of madness.
In the vast majority of cases it does us no real harm. In fact, some kinds of 'personality disorder' could even be an advantage, especially at work. "
So send the mad ones overseas - they will remember you when they achieve Air Rank
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Mystic Orient
Unless we are still harping about that (ill)famed Kamikaze requirements of committed aircrew!!
In which case, I would have imagined being a bit off would have been a plus point, eh?
What next?
Let the COs start checking if the underwears of all crew are of the right fit?
In which case, I would have imagined being a bit off would have been a plus point, eh?
What next?
Let the COs start checking if the underwears of all crew are of the right fit?
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: W. Scotland
This rang a bell. I spoke to a civvy personnel/human resources person who confirmed that non-medically qualified civil servants are permitted to make medical decisions on civvy colleagues.
She also said that, because of this, some serious issues have arisen with duty of care. An example quoted was of a civvy's GP and consultants notifying MoD of his critical illness, but an unqualified personnel manager over-ruling them and advising the line manager to get him back to work. Line manager was a serving officer who responded that he preferred to accept the advice of qualified doctors, and sought advice as to who would now be responsible if, as the doctors' anticipated, the civvy fell ill at work. Good for him I say.
The implications are obvious. Litigation. Joking aside, a bit of a minefield this one.
She also said that, because of this, some serious issues have arisen with duty of care. An example quoted was of a civvy's GP and consultants notifying MoD of his critical illness, but an unqualified personnel manager over-ruling them and advising the line manager to get him back to work. Line manager was a serving officer who responded that he preferred to accept the advice of qualified doctors, and sought advice as to who would now be responsible if, as the doctors' anticipated, the civvy fell ill at work. Good for him I say.
The implications are obvious. Litigation. Joking aside, a bit of a minefield this one.
Joined: May 2000
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From: Wiltshire
Is it April the 1st again, have I been asleep for a year - I have heard of some barking ideas but this is fantastic,
GP = 60K+ a year - less responsibility,
Flt Comd = 25p a year plus - gets GPs responsibility as well.
Oh how I love the military!!!!
GP = 60K+ a year - less responsibility,
Flt Comd = 25p a year plus - gets GPs responsibility as well.
Oh how I love the military!!!!
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: NZ
And another thing, did you know... medical in confidence applies to all. If you consult a civvy Doc, they, if you instruct them so, cant tell your mil one; if you tell your mil doc something, and they tell anyone else, including your boss; if you tell them not to, they are liable to be struck off as a GP. Rant over..'Passionate on the rubbish med care in the RAF.
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Lounge Bar, 'Kebab & Calculator', Melksham
As I recall, two Navigators on a Herc Sqn that wore yellow T-Shirts actually had chits declaring that they were no longer mad. It may be time to track them down and see how the policy stands...
Joined: Jan 2007
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From: Mystic Orient
From all the posts till now, it seems no one considers it a possibility that the Flt Cdr could also grossly misuse this authority. In my time, I have come across quite a few (to be polite about it!) Flt Cdrs who were rather vindictive about someone or the other under them!
Remember: it is an authority that does not have the backing of responsibility. No one could sue the Flt Cdr at a later stage for "Malpractice" now, could one? After all, judging a person's sanity (or otherwise) could never be proved legally to be the trained and taught job of a Flt Cdr!
Bit of a Pandora's box there, methinks!!
Remember: it is an authority that does not have the backing of responsibility. No one could sue the Flt Cdr at a later stage for "Malpractice" now, could one? After all, judging a person's sanity (or otherwise) could never be proved legally to be the trained and taught job of a Flt Cdr!
Bit of a Pandora's box there, methinks!!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: Lincolnshire
"In my opinion ............ (rank) ............... (name) is/is not mentally balanced and capable/incapable of doing his/her job at ....................... (station or unit) which is exhilarating/steady/boring and has regular/irregular hours on a ............ (insert number between 1 and 4) day week in a satisfactory/unsatisfactory manner provided he/she is fed at regular times in clean air conditioned accommodation that has a private bedspace/room/en suite room/apartment/house with spouse/wife/husband/partner and adequate supplies or alcohol and/or pork pies. If any of the above conditions are not met then I have not the slightest idea."
How about that?
How about that?
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Under a stone
A Few Benefits...
So if I declare all of my flight "mentally unbalanced" (which is not too difficult with me in charge) then I do not regularly lose my trade specialists to guard duty in the desert and I can achieve my tasks at home with the minimum of disruption and overtime to the benefit of the flight.............
Everybody after 3.... "WIBBLE".
Everybody after 3.... "WIBBLE".
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Joined: Dec 2002
Aviation Qualifications: Military (Retired)
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From: Lincolnshire
Release-authorised, that is a logcial assumption that clearly illustrates that you are of sound body and mind.
How will your troops fare with you out in the sandpit?
How will your troops fare with you out in the sandpit?
Gentleman Aviator
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Teetering Towers - somewhere in the Shires
actually had chits declaring that they were no longer mad
I recall one occasion in the mighty Wessex (Queen (Mother) of the Skies) the following conversation took place...
Co-pilot: Hey boss...... are you sane?
Moi (surprised): Er, well, yes ... I suppose so
Co-pilot: But have you got a chit to prove it? - Cos I have!
Crewman's voice (from engine room): And so have I!
Moi:
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Joined: Dec 2002
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From: Lincolnshire
Opening the debate
Mrs PN comments that apart from supervisor, leader and manager, you are also a career counsellor, financial advisor, legal advisor, insurance, welfare, social what have you.
Are you registered with the appropriate trade bodies to exercise all these extra curricular tasks?
Are you registered with the appropriate trade bodies to exercise all these extra curricular tasks?