Hi Vis Jackets
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Sadly those in a position to apply reality don’t because they do not want make waves and therefore our outfit becomes more ridiculous every day.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Just a last thought on this, which may put things in perspective (and I do believe that there are many areas of H&S where perspective has been lost). One of the factors in risk management is the Value of Prevented Fatality (VPF), put crudely, what is the limit you are prepared to spend to save a life.
Now, if a hi vis vest costs £5 and the RAF buys 50 000 pa, it has cost £250 000. If , for simplicity sake, the VPF is £1m and you show that by spending £250 000 you save even one life every 4 years, you have 'broken even' so to speak. So why shouldn't it be done? The family of airman x, killed by a crew bus when he wasn't wearing one will be asking the same "Why?" questions that Tappers Dad, Nigegilb etc etc are asking (and they have my sympathy and support), and why not? If it is reasonably practical, then do it.
sw
Now, if a hi vis vest costs £5 and the RAF buys 50 000 pa, it has cost £250 000. If , for simplicity sake, the VPF is £1m and you show that by spending £250 000 you save even one life every 4 years, you have 'broken even' so to speak. So why shouldn't it be done? The family of airman x, killed by a crew bus when he wasn't wearing one will be asking the same "Why?" questions that Tappers Dad, Nigegilb etc etc are asking (and they have my sympathy and support), and why not? If it is reasonably practical, then do it.
sw
Join Date: Mar 2005
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In the civvy world (flight training school) we've been told not to wear our hi-vis jackets on inside the cockpit (of a light training aircraft) as they present a fire hazard! 
JetBlast member 2005.
JetBlast member 2006.
Banned 2007
JetBlast member 2006.
Banned 2007
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Now, if a hi vis vest costs £5...
Then there has to be a team to measure the effectiveness, was any life actually saved? was any life lost despite the vest? how do we know? What logging system needs to be in place to verify the cost effectiveness and what are the review parameters for this? Wjo gets the figures reported to them and what do they do with them? How long do they store them?
Then there's the actual time required to don and doff 50,000 units go on before breakfast and come off at night every day, even if it only takes 1.2 seconds that's erm... 60,000 seconds a day, which is 1000 minutes which is about two man days. How does that get paid for? or tracked?
Cunning Artificer
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Let me tell you a story. . .
Yawn 
Everyone here in Borneo is obliged to don a Hi-viz when going "airside". We have Hi-viz vests stowed in the aircraft for crew use when necessary. They do seem a bit like overkill, but its all to do with the employer's duty of care. Duty of care? What's that then? Well, we're civilians you see, and thus a bunch of touchy-feely wimps.
BZN 197something. I forget; but the miners were on strike and the 'three day week' was in operation - for everyone except we military chaps. Group HQ decreed that to save electricity, the floodlights would be turned off. A rigger walks out from LSS stores and heads out across the pan to attend to a sick VC10 - just as a crew bus turns the corner and races across the pan...
The driver never saw anything, just heard the thud.
Unfortunately the rigger wasn't killed outright. He merely suffered permanent brain damage, converting him into a vegetable. So, his life insurance didn't pay out and his family was reduced to penury. The RAF in its boundless generosity discharged him on medical grounds and subsequently ignored him.
As they always do.
"The driver never saw anything"?? Well we didn't have Hi-Viz vests in those days. It was the rigger's own fault. Apparently, with all the pan floodlights off he should have been paying proper attention, seen the bus coming and jumped out of the way.
Group HQ never rescinded the order to turn off the floodlights, either.
Everyone here in Borneo is obliged to don a Hi-viz when going "airside". We have Hi-viz vests stowed in the aircraft for crew use when necessary. They do seem a bit like overkill, but its all to do with the employer's duty of care. Duty of care? What's that then? Well, we're civilians you see, and thus a bunch of touchy-feely wimps.
BZN 197something. I forget; but the miners were on strike and the 'three day week' was in operation - for everyone except we military chaps. Group HQ decreed that to save electricity, the floodlights would be turned off. A rigger walks out from LSS stores and heads out across the pan to attend to a sick VC10 - just as a crew bus turns the corner and races across the pan...
The driver never saw anything, just heard the thud.
Unfortunately the rigger wasn't killed outright. He merely suffered permanent brain damage, converting him into a vegetable. So, his life insurance didn't pay out and his family was reduced to penury. The RAF in its boundless generosity discharged him on medical grounds and subsequently ignored him.
As they always do.
"The driver never saw anything"?? Well we didn't have Hi-Viz vests in those days. It was the rigger's own fault. Apparently, with all the pan floodlights off he should have been paying proper attention, seen the bus coming and jumped out of the way.
Group HQ never rescinded the order to turn off the floodlights, either.
Join Date: Mar 2005
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How is a zippper a FOD hazard? How many Engines have been FODed by a zip....and if thats the case, why is there a bloomin great big Zip all the way down my Flying Ovvies?
The Zip on the growbags has been made to a far higher standard than the basic zip on the early Hi-Vis, therefore there is no percieved FOD hazard from the growbags (except for the mountain of pens, chinagraphs and pencils collected over the years from aircrew dropping them in aircraft)
Join Date: May 2005
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"""(except for the mountain of pens, chinagraphs and pencils collected over the years from aircrew dropping them in aircraft)"""
and forgetting to admit the loss?
The zips came off in your hand when doing the vest up thats why they were a FOD hazard..
and forgetting to admit the loss?
The zips came off in your hand when doing the vest up thats why they were a FOD hazard..
Join Date: Jun 2005
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I'm not really sure that I like the idea, but why not just change the colour of the green flying suits to orange or something high viz? It strikes me that when we go to war these days we need sand coloured flying suits, so why do we still need green for non-operational flights? Green was great when we were planning to fight in northern Europe, but things have changed.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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ZH875
Sadly, I don't think green really has the "pulling power" that you seem to think it has. Orange never seemed to hinder any of my German pals and red doesn't appear to be much of a problem for the "Reds".
Sadly, I don't think green really has the "pulling power" that you seem to think it has. Orange never seemed to hinder any of my German pals and red doesn't appear to be much of a problem for the "Reds".
LFFC, who said green HAD pulling power, it's just that some growbag wearers THINK it has, especially when worn with sunglasses in Tesco's etc.
The jerries win on the accent, the Reds win on - well they are the Reds, the rest just lag behind the Harrier Ego bubble.
The jerries win on the accent, the Reds win on - well they are the Reds, the rest just lag behind the Harrier Ego bubble.
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Velcro for vests definately the winner (if able to meet in middle!
). Anything harder (such as zips/poppers) tends to scratch the canopy when you're cleaning them (on my aircraft type anyway!).
). Anything harder (such as zips/poppers) tends to scratch the canopy when you're cleaning them (on my aircraft type anyway!).
Join Date: Mar 2005
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As it doesn't cause much hardship, isn't it easier to wear one, and if you find yourself in a situation where you think it increases another risk, then don't wear it but make sure it is noted.
ps, diginagain, who where you refering to - people either seem to be 'dos' or don'ts?
5206
ps, diginagain, who where you refering to - people either seem to be 'dos' or don'ts?
5206
