PVR and AFPS 05
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NGR
Notice by General Right. 18 months notice to leave, no messing about with dates.. on x date in 18 months time, I'm off and the RAF can't dictate the date. It doesn't affect your right to PVR in the meantime and get out earlier if required. I chose my date to make sure another pay rise had kicked in to increase the pension.
PVR
If you PVR on PAS you do not take a reduction in salary. As for your pension that depends on whether you are on AFPS75 or 05 however, in either case you take a small hit in actual pension rate paid decided by number of years left to serve. Greater the number of years left then the greater the abatement. At 39yrs old it is about 8% or so reducing to zero at 50yrs old.
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120class
Not quite as simple as that! Your figures hold for AFPS75, but there are no PVR pension rates for AFPS05. The catch instead is that you don't get an immediate pension if you leave before age 55; it is replaced in the meantime by the Early Departure Payment Scheme, until you receive your preserved pension (based on final salary and years served) at age 65.
For the record, with reference to the discussions above, I see nothing to stop someone on PAS and AFPS05 leaving by PVR before having completed 5 years as PAS. There appears to be no penalty other than receiving a smaller EDP (and eventually a smaller pension) than would have been received for serving longer. Also, if you are permanently downgraded (medically unfit for flying duties) as PAS, there are only 2 options; transfer to a Ground Branch (if offered), or exit the Service.
Regards
Ginseng
For the record, with reference to the discussions above, I see nothing to stop someone on PAS and AFPS05 leaving by PVR before having completed 5 years as PAS. There appears to be no penalty other than receiving a smaller EDP (and eventually a smaller pension) than would have been received for serving longer. Also, if you are permanently downgraded (medically unfit for flying duties) as PAS, there are only 2 options; transfer to a Ground Branch (if offered), or exit the Service.
Regards
Ginseng
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Ginseng
If that was the case (PAS medically downgraded), if you chose to leave the Service, would you be eligible for a medical discharge pension? (i.e. index linked from the start).
If that was the case (PAS medically downgraded), if you chose to leave the Service, would you be eligible for a medical discharge pension? (i.e. index linked from the start).
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goatmanni
Not sure, but probably not unless you were unfit to continue any form of service. I don't think turning down the offer of a transfer to a ground branch if you were fit for ground duties would entitle you to a medical discharge, but I'm no expert in that field.
Regards
Ginseng
Regards
Ginseng
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Ginseng
Thanks for that post I think that clears a few things up. I was under the impression that I had to complete 5 years on the PAS scheme before I could leave with a PAS based pension/EDP. In my case the differance between PAS pension on AFPS 05 and the old '75 scheme is huge so I didn't want to jump ship too early! If you PVR is the waiting list always 6 mnths over 50??
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I believe it can be, if you so wish. 6 months notice is all that is formally required for pvr after age 50 or 30 years service, however I am sure PMA would appreciate as much notice as possible of your intentions. AP3392 refers. I can confirm also that there is no penalty for pvr'ing over age 40 on PAS and AFPS 05.
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Topofclimb
It is an interesting point. PAS came about out of the Aircrew Retention Review, when AFPS75 was the only active pension scheme. PAS then offered a pension enhancement for time served as PAS, which was only retained on completion of at least 5 full years on the PAS. So PVR before 5 years meant complete surrender of the PAS pension enhancement. AFPS05 changed all that, since it works on a competely different structure. Hence, we now have parallel systems with different (and therefore discriminatory?) treatment of the same service, depending on the pension scheme you happen to be in. There will come a time, of course, when there are no more surviving members of AFPS75, and therefore no further discrimination. You paid your money, and took your choice. But it begs the question once again, that if it is now OK to penalise early leavers on PVR by removing half of their flying pay, on the basis that the flying pay has failed as a retention measure, why should PAS personnel not suffer a similar sanction? PAS was, after all, an Aircrew RETENTION initiative, and effectively pensioned flying pay (partial under AFPS75, but in toto under AFPS05).
Regards
Ginseng
Regards
Ginseng
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Ginseng
Yes, I had a good look through some of the documents I printed off at the time of making my decision to go PAS and then the AFPS05 change. There's a whole paragraph about how you will lose part of your flying pay under AFPS 75 then a much smaller paragraph about the PAS scheme saying.....these personnel may not have to complete a 5-year ROS as AFPS 05 is a final salary pension scheme. Its the word "may" thats a bit ominous! Anyway I rang Glasgow yesterday and a very nice lady said she would send me a pension prediction. Again these say at the top that they are not binding, so you could leave, and find they are wrong
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AFPS Pension Calculator
For those of you having issues with Glasgow et al. and their limit on pension predictions, why not use the Pensions Calculator.
This allow you to play about with various dates, and PVR/non-PVR, 75/05 etc.
More importantly, there is no limit on the number of calculations that you can run.
(>|<)
This allow you to play about with various dates, and PVR/non-PVR, 75/05 etc.
More importantly, there is no limit on the number of calculations that you can run.
(>|<)
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When I tried to use the Pensions Calculator, it was 'temporarily unavailable' - for 5 days - so I gave up, assuming JPAC had inherited it. Looks like its working again now...
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Hope this helps!
I was asked why hadn't replied to the original question by someone the other day, as I did take early retirement after reaching 50 and did change to the 05 scheme. So here goes!
I did as much research as possible before making the decision, but found it extremely difficult to get the necessary answers, in fact ANY answers. However, if you are on PA then your pay remains the same, after you have put in the necessary paperwork. (You couldn't apply on JPA when I applied!)
Handbrake house gave me duff info on completing the Pension request form, and it was me who ended up explaining to them how to complete to the form and provided them with the necessary links for getting the info from the web. (Unfortunately I am in the process of moving house and can't find the paperwork with necessary links to the pension! But see below)
Before making the final decision I did some calculations and then took the initial figures to an IFA, who confirmed that the best time to leave is approx your 54th birthday and one day - providing you intend to live to 65. To him it was a "No Brainer!" Particularly as you would get a second tax free lump sum at 65.
As I remember it the approximate way for pension calculation is:
Your final annual salary divided by 70 multiplied by the number of years and months you have completed.
35,000/70 X 25 years = 12,500
Your Tax free lumpsum would be 3 X 12,500 = 37, 500
If you leave before 55 then your pension stays the same until 55, (can't remember what the actual % was at 50!) At 55 you then get 75% of your pension. From 55 it then increases at the annual RPI until 65. Where you then have to write to claim the pension you are entitled to! At 65 you then get another tax free lump sum of 3 times your full pension, and your full pension then increases at the annual RPI.
The other thing I have discovered is that your gratuity is paid within 21 days of leaving and not on the date you leave. Also your pension is paid on some random day of the month.
Sorry this is a bit late but i hope it helps.
I did as much research as possible before making the decision, but found it extremely difficult to get the necessary answers, in fact ANY answers. However, if you are on PA then your pay remains the same, after you have put in the necessary paperwork. (You couldn't apply on JPA when I applied!)
Handbrake house gave me duff info on completing the Pension request form, and it was me who ended up explaining to them how to complete to the form and provided them with the necessary links for getting the info from the web. (Unfortunately I am in the process of moving house and can't find the paperwork with necessary links to the pension! But see below)
Before making the final decision I did some calculations and then took the initial figures to an IFA, who confirmed that the best time to leave is approx your 54th birthday and one day - providing you intend to live to 65. To him it was a "No Brainer!" Particularly as you would get a second tax free lump sum at 65.
As I remember it the approximate way for pension calculation is:
Your final annual salary divided by 70 multiplied by the number of years and months you have completed.
35,000/70 X 25 years = 12,500
Your Tax free lumpsum would be 3 X 12,500 = 37, 500
If you leave before 55 then your pension stays the same until 55, (can't remember what the actual % was at 50!) At 55 you then get 75% of your pension. From 55 it then increases at the annual RPI until 65. Where you then have to write to claim the pension you are entitled to! At 65 you then get another tax free lump sum of 3 times your full pension, and your full pension then increases at the annual RPI.
The other thing I have discovered is that your gratuity is paid within 21 days of leaving and not on the date you leave. Also your pension is paid on some random day of the month.
Sorry this is a bit late but i hope it helps.
