RAF Helicopter Navigators (WSOps) - What Do They Actually Do?
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Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
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Selective memory here. On the puma, did you need to set the decca up or did it just automatically feed the kit. In my 2500 hours on type, I NEVER learned to set up the decca nav.
In fairness to navs, it may be my well documented limited capacity, but I found pilot/crewman great fun and incredibly incredibly incredibly hard work. When they gave me a nav to talk to, I actually found time to enjoy the view at 50'. I even started to remember what I did on the sortie, rather than see helmet smoke in front of my eyes.
In fairness to navs, it may be my well documented limited capacity, but I found pilot/crewman great fun and incredibly incredibly incredibly hard work. When they gave me a nav to talk to, I actually found time to enjoy the view at 50'. I even started to remember what I did on the sortie, rather than see helmet smoke in front of my eyes.
My selective (that's failing) memory says, 'no'. The signal was already TANS- bound. You set the Decca up for the sole purpose of being 'trapped' on a check ride, and asked for the once in a lifetime (post mmmmm '82 ish?) Decca letdown. I lie. You also used it for passing the time on Gut trainers or the reverse. Useful over the upper channel/lower north sea.
On navs- always got on fine with them. One, a former AAITC bod on 33 had a Welsh name like 'good heavens', and did do the non stop windup about the extra dosh. We 'ad 'im though!
And Stevo on 230. He's another story!
CG
JT: just noticed you're a pilot. You never set any Fcukin thing up in 2500 hrs!
On navs- always got on fine with them. One, a former AAITC bod on 33 had a Welsh name like 'good heavens', and did do the non stop windup about the extra dosh. We 'ad 'im though!
And Stevo on 230. He's another story!
CG
JT: just noticed you're a pilot. You never set any Fcukin thing up in 2500 hrs!
Last edited by charliegolf; 9th Apr 2007 at 22:34. Reason: noticed Jayteeto is a pilot!
Crew Responsibilities
Happiness was a winchman's lasagne (spaghetti hoops, sliced processed cheese, spaghetti hoops, sliced processed cheese... repeat until bowl space/ingredients run out and microwave on high power until noisy).
Happier and more innocent days...
Happier and more innocent days...
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Dunhovrin
I was on the other Sqn at the time; the one that didn't need to carry passports! You had MVB, we had DB. It gave all the crewmen something in common; " eeeeh, I don't believe it, 'tis first time I've ever been lost in't helicopter".
DB
Trust you'll excuse the cheap shot, happy days.
I was on the other Sqn at the time; the one that didn't need to carry passports! You had MVB, we had DB. It gave all the crewmen something in common; " eeeeh, I don't believe it, 'tis first time I've ever been lost in't helicopter".
DB
Trust you'll excuse the cheap shot, happy days.
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Lost with DB
I've been lost with DB.
Who else? Come on, hands up now!
Obviously, I knew where we were all the time...
Who else? Come on, hands up now!
Obviously, I knew where we were all the time...
Last edited by ProfessionalStudent; 10th Apr 2007 at 17:17. Reason: Add a discalimer...
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3.14
He was an ex FJ mate, so perhaps struggled to adapt to navving at <50'. Trust me, vis nav to a rotten plank over a dried up brook at those kind of hts isn't as easy as you may think - even at 2nm/min (bearing in mind the old Wessex only had clock and compass as navaids).
Originally posted by GasFitter
Most have been promoted. Those remaining have just had the pilot crossover route re-opened. So maybe a few more pilogators are in the offing?
He was an ex FJ mate, so perhaps struggled to adapt to navving at <50'. Trust me, vis nav to a rotten plank over a dried up brook at those kind of hts isn't as easy as you may think - even at 2nm/min (bearing in mind the old Wessex only had clock and compass as navaids).
Originally posted by GasFitter
So what does it say about all those heli-navs out there at the moment? Have all their careers come to an end?
Pro Stude
No-one, and I mean no-one, can shovel coal fast enough to get a Wessex to 120 knots. Well p'raps on Fantasy Island!
Agree about the 50' stuff though.
CG
No-one, and I mean no-one, can shovel coal fast enough to get a Wessex to 120 knots. Well p'raps on Fantasy Island!
Agree about the 50' stuff though.
CG
Avoid imitations
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JT2 and CG,
In my early days on the old Pume the TANS was still in a brochure and the DECCA flight log definitely needed setting up! We used to go to and from Germany with turret keys for the chain changes in a nice, varnished wooden case.
The TANS was a bit of a revelation. The DECCA display didn't always work correctly and infrequently needed a bit of help. I did know how to set up the 'Deccometers' at one time, but I couldn't do it now!
When I went back to fly the aircraft in the early 90s (3rd tour on type, out of four) only a few cabs still had the "old, Mark 1" DECCA TANS with only 9 en-route waypoints. During one NI detachment I was the only one who knew how to use it - crewmen included! No-one was interested in learning as it was obsolescent, with the exception of one unknown "hangar pilot" who kept playing overnight and deleting all my "scramble" waypoints, until I left a note threatening to investigate and charge whoever was doing it. Difficult now to imagine a nav system where ALL the waypoints were deleted every time the battery was turned off.
By then, all the young whippersnappers straight from the OCU knew how to use that SuperTANS / GPS input device though, I had to learn that as I went along.
Sorry the lamp is probably swinging far too much!
In my early days on the old Pume the TANS was still in a brochure and the DECCA flight log definitely needed setting up! We used to go to and from Germany with turret keys for the chain changes in a nice, varnished wooden case.
The TANS was a bit of a revelation. The DECCA display didn't always work correctly and infrequently needed a bit of help. I did know how to set up the 'Deccometers' at one time, but I couldn't do it now!
When I went back to fly the aircraft in the early 90s (3rd tour on type, out of four) only a few cabs still had the "old, Mark 1" DECCA TANS with only 9 en-route waypoints. During one NI detachment I was the only one who knew how to use it - crewmen included! No-one was interested in learning as it was obsolescent, with the exception of one unknown "hangar pilot" who kept playing overnight and deleting all my "scramble" waypoints, until I left a note threatening to investigate and charge whoever was doing it. Difficult now to imagine a nav system where ALL the waypoints were deleted every time the battery was turned off.
By then, all the young whippersnappers straight from the OCU knew how to use that SuperTANS / GPS input device though, I had to learn that as I went along.
Sorry the lamp is probably swinging far too much!
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He was an ex FJ mate, so perhaps struggled to adapt to navving at <50'. Trust me, vis nav to a rotten plank over a dried up brook at those kind of hts isn't as easy as you may think - even at 2nm/min (bearing in mind the old Wessex only had clock and compass as navaids).
In aircraft older than a Wessex.
And timed to within 5 secs.
Ok, not at 50 feet, but then again I didn't have the luxury of a *pause* button whilst I worked out where I was.
There was a reason why many abo's went the rotary route.
ie. They were the ones that got lost at any feet. And there wasn't space for them on the Herc OCU.
Last edited by threepointonefour; 11th Apr 2007 at 07:10.
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3.14
Anyone who's flown at <50' will tell you it's the <50' bit that's difficult. Especially to make a TOT. And the pause button's not really an option when the Taleban are hoofing RPGs at you.
You're right. Some abo's went rotary because they couldn't find their way out of wet paper bag open at both ends, but please don't tar us all with the same brush! Besides, I don't like pastry, so I couldn't have gone Hercs even if I'd wanted to.
Ok, not at 50 feet, but then again I didn't have the luxury of a *pause* button whilst I worked out where I was.
You're right. Some abo's went rotary because they couldn't find their way out of wet paper bag open at both ends, but please don't tar us all with the same brush! Besides, I don't like pastry, so I couldn't have gone Hercs even if I'd wanted to.
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... am going to put that in my little red book of SOP debrief points
I have bags more. Just shout before your next debrief.
Here's a special one for you rotary navs;
10 Do better.
20 Goto 10