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RAF Helicopter Navigators (WSOps) - What Do They Actually Do?

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RAF Helicopter Navigators (WSOps) - What Do They Actually Do?

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Old 6th Apr 2007, 14:39
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Given Des Browne's recent statement about 6 more Merlin and 8 more Chinooks I'd wager we'll see a return to single pilot+nav operations in some helicopters for some tasks before too long.
That'll be ineresting as they're not training any new ones, only recycling the ones not good enough for pilot crossover or promotion.
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Old 6th Apr 2007, 18:55
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Someone has to put the blanks on...
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Old 6th Apr 2007, 19:26
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Evalu8ter

Good Post .. Useful stuff. i wonder if some of the yung'uns are being offered a re-role?
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Old 9th Apr 2007, 09:49
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I seem to remember they were dumped on us because it was jobs for the boys when the GR1 force started getting reduced and they had nowhere else to put them. Anyone else there at the start when several with major chips arrived? MVB and The Judge spring to mind. Sadly the next bunch of first tourist navs ruined it all by being good eggs.
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Old 9th Apr 2007, 09:55
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What does a helicopter nav do?

How on earth has this thread managed to run to 2 pages???
Wait ... hover for a minute ... yep, thought so. The sign says "M6 North. Go that way."

Ok.
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Old 9th Apr 2007, 10:42
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Dunhovrin, it also happened when the Shack 'force' reduced for those that did not want the Nimwacs.

Of course, aside from navigation, they are fully trained aircrew and as capable of mission accomplishment as any other aircrew (or they should be).
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Old 9th Apr 2007, 12:22
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Of course, aside from navigation, they are fully trained aircrew and as capable of mission accomplishment as any other aircrew (or they should be).
Bull****. So they can fly at 100' on NVG and land a load in the desert at night.
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Old 9th Apr 2007, 14:11
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All of this stuff was being done by a less well paid crewman long before the Navigator was dropped on the SH fleet!

I was at Odiham when the first guys arrived, most of them were decent blokes who couldnt give any more of a rational explanation for their career moves than those already expounded by the resident crews. "Why the F***K!" seemed to be the most common expression.

Now seen it a many times! Maritime, SH, now watch out for the FSTA......Navigator position made redundant then find another seat irrespective of whether any use or not. Some sort of handshake ritual I think.
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Old 9th Apr 2007, 14:30
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Klingon, can't argue with what you said, and the only times I have been in a military chopper was as a survivor on training or exercise.

As I think I alluded to earlier, a redundant navigator posted to helos provides better VFM than a redundant navigator made redundant.

To retain her or him as a make weight is cheaper than paying redundancy money and pension and trainning a NCA alternative.
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Old 9th Apr 2007, 15:35
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Navigators were employed on the SAR Wessex and some SeaKing posts as winch operators weren't they? Didn't they only take the best ones from a selection course?
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Old 9th Apr 2007, 16:15
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Sam, quite right. I know several that failed. However I also know of one nav whose vocation was SAR. He fought tooth and nail to get off the Nimrod, which he did after two tours and finished the rest of his career, at least 25 yrs on the SAR choppers.
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Old 9th Apr 2007, 17:42
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It wasnt a case of training an NCA replacement as no training was ever needed! The crewmen were already VERY competent in both the middle and LH seat.

Shame that only 10 years or so later (1992) they offered redundancies but still persisted with the Navigator on SH.
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Old 9th Apr 2007, 17:49
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How did the Puma fleet ever cope without a Navigator flying around Germany with only TANS and two crew?
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Old 9th Apr 2007, 18:21
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'RAF Helicopter Navigators - What do they actually do?'

I have known a couple in my time, before they crossed to the dark side. As to what they do, probably......


Draw a reasonable salary.

Attempt to do their job to the best of their ability. Despite the fact that it was almost certainly not the posting they initially asked for or wanted.

Go to some c**p places in the world and get shot at.

Put up with all the pilot put downs.

Put up with the (hopefully small number of) crewmen who have 'chips' on their shoulder about helicopter Navs.


What else would you expect them to do?????
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Old 9th Apr 2007, 19:10
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Talking of chips, can I have a whopper too, oh and I'll go supersize please Mr Nav.
 
Old 9th Apr 2007, 19:13
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Wokkameister

I wondered how long it would be before you got hold of this one!

I couldn't find my arse in a bath, me...

But the galling thing is, they get paid more than you and have a comfier seat than you. 50% more money, 50% less work.

But at least you can live with yourself...
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Old 9th Apr 2007, 19:18
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Ha Ha,

Sorry, couldn't resist it. Some of my best friends are Navs/Ex Navs, but don't tell anybody!
 
Old 9th Apr 2007, 21:22
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How did the Puma fleet ever cope without a Navigator flying around Germany with only TANS and two crew?
Compass, watch, map; the TANS was a luxury that you could live without. In any case, if you updated it frequently, it was quite reliable, it had a Decca input you know. ........and if Kaunitz to the Bielefeld gap by the safari park is 065`, I did it far to often. N51556....... E000 08189 I wonder if that is right.
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Old 9th Apr 2007, 21:25
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Did you have those god awful Decca maps with lines all over the place and the four instruments to make sense of it all?
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Old 9th Apr 2007, 21:35
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Yup, but in fairness, you would set them up and let them feed the TANS.
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