The reaction of the British captives to the Iranians
Set18 '' All I was asking for was some sort of military behaviour from some military people, or so I thought.''
Yes mate, I totally agree with you. What I would really have liked would be for those marines and sailors to have fought tooth and nail against those wimpy Iranian National Guard, resisting them at all costs.
THEN, when tortured and locked in solitary confinement for months on end, you would be able to say ''well done, they did it for Queen and Country, and of course Tony Blair.''
I'm sure their families, you know Set 18, the people that REALLY matter to them, would have appreciated that.
Yes mate, I totally agree with you. What I would really have liked would be for those marines and sailors to have fought tooth and nail against those wimpy Iranian National Guard, resisting them at all costs.
THEN, when tortured and locked in solitary confinement for months on end, you would be able to say ''well done, they did it for Queen and Country, and of course Tony Blair.''
I'm sure their families, you know Set 18, the people that REALLY matter to them, would have appreciated that.
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3BB you forgot to add that they were lightly armed in poorly defended inflatable boats with no top cover and no mother ship in sight. They would all have been slaughtered for Queen and Country and a Govt that refuses to resource its armed forces but likes to go to war. You are bang on, their families are happy tonight if not a little shocked by the treatment their loved ones have received. Meanwhile some incredibly young people have had their lives tragically cut short in this senseless war in Iraq, including a 19 year old nurse who was only there to help others. Without a shadow of a doubt these 15 sailors and marines made the right decision, as for the politicians who sent them there, they can swing.
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Jacko
"embarrassment and difficulty" was the objective - ergo the "admissions of 'guilt' " was what they were after.
Had our guys not (apparently) played along, they would not have been on the tele and would probably still be there.
...and the "vast bulk of the country" would have forgotten about them by now.
Best wishes to them - Well done.
"embarrassment and difficulty" was the objective - ergo the "admissions of 'guilt' " was what they were after.
Had our guys not (apparently) played along, they would not have been on the tele and would probably still be there.
...and the "vast bulk of the country" would have forgotten about them by now.
Best wishes to them - Well done.
here's another view from US Medal of Honour winner Jack Jacobs.
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from US Medal of Honour winner Jack Jacobs
It completely, and conveniently, seems to have escaped this w@nker's attention that the 15 were heavily outnumbered in both terms of numbers and firepower.
Mr Jacobs, do us all a favo(u)r and stick your Medal where the sun don't shine
nigegilb
'Poorly defended inflatable boats'???? But surely they had their SA80 rifles to use against the heavy machine guns on the several Iranian boats!!!
I'm very glad that they are home, having co-operated and done whatever was needed to make sure that they stay alive and come home to their families.
This government needs to wake up to the fact that we are in a 'war' that is never ever going to be won. Just look at the reaction and the glee of the Iraqi locals over the very recent loss in Basra. And this is a place in Iraq that is supposed to be more friendly to UK forces.
Every single day, there are innocent Iraqi civilians having limbs blown off, losing loved ones (and thus creating martyrs) and we are meant to be helping!! Almost every day you hear of a coalition soldier being killed, or wounded. This is a mess, a nightmare and it's simply not going to get better.
We have screwed up the Middle East and let them down so many times in the last century. Now we fight Bushs' war. I can see no end.
'Poorly defended inflatable boats'???? But surely they had their SA80 rifles to use against the heavy machine guns on the several Iranian boats!!!
I'm very glad that they are home, having co-operated and done whatever was needed to make sure that they stay alive and come home to their families.
This government needs to wake up to the fact that we are in a 'war' that is never ever going to be won. Just look at the reaction and the glee of the Iraqi locals over the very recent loss in Basra. And this is a place in Iraq that is supposed to be more friendly to UK forces.
Every single day, there are innocent Iraqi civilians having limbs blown off, losing loved ones (and thus creating martyrs) and we are meant to be helping!! Almost every day you hear of a coalition soldier being killed, or wounded. This is a mess, a nightmare and it's simply not going to get better.
We have screwed up the Middle East and let them down so many times in the last century. Now we fight Bushs' war. I can see no end.
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Just been listening to Jack Jacobs before writing my small contribution. As some of you may know, I was flying with Bomber Command in WW2 so, although I never was in the same kind of situation as the sailors and marines were, there are very troubling thoughts going through my mind. At the moment I don't want to comment on their actions after being arrested but what led up to it. If the naval authorities are going to continue to say that procedures before their arrest were correct, I feel there must be some adjustment made to them. Too far away from the mother ship for it to help, insufficient watch by radar(?) to identify impending trouble and no cover by the ship's helicopter. I feel this incident dishonours the past when this nation has had to deal with tortuous circumstances with personnel at great risk. Without having to be 'gung-ho' in these dire our circumstances, this is not the way matters have been dealt with in the past. We are not acting as a responsible nation towards reprehensible behaviour towards our service personnel. Australia is appalled!
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Our people are back home, safe and sound, and they have told the World the truth. I'm hoping that our government now does something to remind the Iranian government (and other like minded people) that they don't mess with us and get away with it. I found it interesting that they gave a press conference so quickly after they all said that they wanted space and privacy. Maybe the government wants us to know what happened to our people and get our sympathy before we take some timely military (re)action.
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Mr Jacobs
Mr Jacobs, you were completely right, when at all out full scale war with Iran. we should have fired first, killed them all, and gone home for tea and stickies....... Oh yes that's right, we arn't at war, and have ROE, what a To**er he is. I hate it that someone like this idiot has made me post twice, but I notice he didn't mention the U.S's successes against Iran, Oh that's because there are none. I am no U.S. hater, and I'm sure that (like most of us) Brit, U.S. or whatever countries servicemen all seem to have some sort of bond with each other, it seems it's us verses our politicians
For the record: After Col Charlie Beckwith formed Delta force (which he modelled on our special air service), and later mounted Op Eagle Claw, it was bad luck that had us all looking at beheaded U.S. sf troops on TV. And I have nothing but pity on the U.S. personnel who were recently "snatched" and murdered from within their own camp in the sand. All I can say about total morons like Mr Jacobs (my apologies to brave and decent American's) is when your cheque clears for your interview, donate it to a service charity
MR JACOBS, I HOPE YOU ARE PROUD OF YOUR MEDAL, AND WON IT DURING A WAR, BUT HERES SOME ADVICE FOR YOU, IT'S IN CAPITAL LETTER'S AS YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY A BIT SLOW. THE NEXT TIME YOU ARE STOPPED BY POLICE FOR A ROUTINE MATTER, DON'T DIE RESISTING FOOD, WATER OR COMFORT, JUST SAY "YES I WAS DOING 31 IN A 30 ZONE. JUST TRYING TO HELP YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE IN WAR AND PEACE YOU TW*T
For the record: After Col Charlie Beckwith formed Delta force (which he modelled on our special air service), and later mounted Op Eagle Claw, it was bad luck that had us all looking at beheaded U.S. sf troops on TV. And I have nothing but pity on the U.S. personnel who were recently "snatched" and murdered from within their own camp in the sand. All I can say about total morons like Mr Jacobs (my apologies to brave and decent American's) is when your cheque clears for your interview, donate it to a service charity
MR JACOBS, I HOPE YOU ARE PROUD OF YOUR MEDAL, AND WON IT DURING A WAR, BUT HERES SOME ADVICE FOR YOU, IT'S IN CAPITAL LETTER'S AS YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY A BIT SLOW. THE NEXT TIME YOU ARE STOPPED BY POLICE FOR A ROUTINE MATTER, DON'T DIE RESISTING FOOD, WATER OR COMFORT, JUST SAY "YES I WAS DOING 31 IN A 30 ZONE. JUST TRYING TO HELP YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE IN WAR AND PEACE YOU TW*T
Lets not forget that there are 6 families grieving tonight after the worst week in 2 years for the British forces in Iraq.
Shouldn't that be 7 families. Let's not forget the family of the Kuwaiti interpreter who was also killed
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"Pretending that this is a civilised discourse, I offer a small vote for Set18's point of view."
...and I have to say I agree with the both of you! Regardless of the situation, co-ercion, duress etc they may have been under, my over riding impression was they came across as having the demeanour of a group of schoolkids on a trip away. Sorry, but that's what watching them reminded me of.
...and I have to say I agree with the both of you! Regardless of the situation, co-ercion, duress etc they may have been under, my over riding impression was they came across as having the demeanour of a group of schoolkids on a trip away. Sorry, but that's what watching them reminded me of.
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Col Jacobs holds the highest military honor the US can bestow. Equivalent to the VC. He is saluted by all other military personnel no matter their rank.
But that doesn't prevent him from issuing ill informed and ridiculous statements.
On the other hand, I've read worse right here on pprune.
But that doesn't prevent him from issuing ill informed and ridiculous statements.
On the other hand, I've read worse right here on pprune.
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"Shouldn't that be 7 families. Let's not forget the family of the Kuwaiti interpreter who was also killed"
...indeed, and while we're at it also the thousands of Iraqi families grieving on a daily basis. I know it doesn't count so much because they're not British, but hey!
"...indeed, and while we're at it also the thousands of Iraqi families grieving on a daily basis. I know it doesn't count so much because they're not British, but hey!
"Pretending that this is a civilised discourse, I offer a small vote for Set18's point of view."
...and I have to say I agree with the both of you! Regardless of the situation, co-ercion, duress etc they may have been under, my over riding impression was they came across as having the demeanour of a group of schoolkids on a trip away. Sorry, but that's what watching them reminded me of.
...and I have to say I agree with the both of you! Regardless of the situation, co-ercion, duress etc they may have been under, my over riding impression was they came across as having the demeanour of a group of schoolkids on a trip away. Sorry, but that's what watching them reminded me of.
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However, and it's an honest question, does the modern young serviceman or woman really need to go on a course before he can be trusted to act in an adult fashion in a stressed situation? I'm not talking about co-operation or not with your captors as an issue, just presenting a more 'adult' demeanour, isn't it just common sense?
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Who is parading these individuals in the circus ring now? Surley this should not be happening... They should be de-briefed then sent back to do their jobs. Which one will be on with Richard and Judy first???
SMT
SMT
Nige
I have a lot of respect for you and what you have tried to do for the C130 fleet, but......
[QUOTE][The guys being trained for theatre specific techniques were told that big four only, would likely get them killed in no time at all./QUOTE]
We are not at war with Iran. There was no way that they were going to be executed.
Now I am not so niave to believe that they were not tortured, or subject to interrogation of various forms. But the way they came over, in comparison to those from Gulf War 1, was as a bunch of schoolkids on a school trip (notal). There was no R! It will be interesting to see how the RN reacts to R2I and ROE after this debacle.
I have a lot of respect for you and what you have tried to do for the C130 fleet, but......
[QUOTE][The guys being trained for theatre specific techniques were told that big four only, would likely get them killed in no time at all./QUOTE]
We are not at war with Iran. There was no way that they were going to be executed.
Now I am not so niave to believe that they were not tortured, or subject to interrogation of various forms. But the way they came over, in comparison to those from Gulf War 1, was as a bunch of schoolkids on a school trip (notal). There was no R! It will be interesting to see how the RN reacts to R2I and ROE after this debacle.