Sea Harrier at Falklands Anniversary
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Shar transport
As I understand it, the engine will stay in, I imagine any fuselage / trestle loading issues were thought of long ago. But will ask.
That leaves quite a few pipes & 6 big bolts - we both mention ground & air testing will be required, so I imagine they will be selective about display sites, arriving in advance & an eye on facilities.
Would not be necessary in the UK, but with the distances in America...
plus if using drop tanks there's always the chance of a transfer snag, sod's law of a birdstrike or something, and going to oxygen altitudes meaning system & supplies.
Apparently there's plenty of interest from potential display organisers.
As far as I get the impression, but again something I'll ask, I think the a/c is to fly clean without pylons.
That leaves quite a few pipes & 6 big bolts - we both mention ground & air testing will be required, so I imagine they will be selective about display sites, arriving in advance & an eye on facilities.
Would not be necessary in the UK, but with the distances in America...
plus if using drop tanks there's always the chance of a transfer snag, sod's law of a birdstrike or something, and going to oxygen altitudes meaning system & supplies.
Apparently there's plenty of interest from potential display organisers.
As far as I get the impression, but again something I'll ask, I think the a/c is to fly clean without pylons.
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Garden Shed
Zero2
Do I take it you have one in the garden shed too ?!
No, but I did toy with the idea but missus wouldn't be best pleased. She thinks that putting them before her for tenty years was enough. If Art was to bring here hes got free crew member for sure. Spent many years running the SHAR display team, great days.
Many SHARs moved with engines installed. Also done many a down bird wing removal and fit with no test facilities, you can do sufficient test to get a one flight only RTB but then you do the full tests. The cost of consumable spares would soon make taking the wing off prohibitive all those O rings and metaseals would soon mount up.
SHAR should be flown with inboard Pylons. They were basic fit UNLIKE GR3/T4 which were role equip. I believe the SHAR had handling issues without so were never flown without.
Sharmine
Do I take it you have one in the garden shed too ?!
No, but I did toy with the idea but missus wouldn't be best pleased. She thinks that putting them before her for tenty years was enough. If Art was to bring here hes got free crew member for sure. Spent many years running the SHAR display team, great days.
Many SHARs moved with engines installed. Also done many a down bird wing removal and fit with no test facilities, you can do sufficient test to get a one flight only RTB but then you do the full tests. The cost of consumable spares would soon make taking the wing off prohibitive all those O rings and metaseals would soon mount up.
SHAR should be flown with inboard Pylons. They were basic fit UNLIKE GR3/T4 which were role equip. I believe the SHAR had handling issues without so were never flown without.
Sharmine
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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sharmine
On a point of detail the inboards were a permanent fit in order to meet wiring reliability requirements for special stores. Not an aerodynamic issue so far as I know.
On a point of detail the inboards were a permanent fit in order to meet wiring reliability requirements for special stores. Not an aerodynamic issue so far as I know.
According to Max Hastings (1st armchair brigade) the RN and RAF are not fighting services and weren't there........
The March 2007 edition of Two-Six mentions the 25th anniversary of Operation Corporate.
Here
The March 2007 edition of Two-Six mentions the 25th anniversary of Operation Corporate.
Here
Last edited by WE Branch Fanatic; 14th Apr 2007 at 14:01.
Off topic for a moment, what about the discussion over the possible preservation of HMS Plymouth?
From the Beeb
From the association website:
HMS Plymouth participated in the 1982 Falklands Conflict. She sailed with Tide Class Tanker RFA Tidepool and County Class Destroyer HMS Antrim to South Georgia with Royal Marines and SAS aboard.
HMS Plymouth was then assigned to provide cover for the aircraft carriers and amphibious vessels and was the first vessel to enter San Carlos Water. On May 21st she came to the assistance of the bomb damaged Leander Class Frigate HMS Argonaut. HMS Plymouth was attacked herself on June 8th by five Mirage aircraft. Although she managed to destroy two and damage another two, HMS Plymouth was hit by four bombs and numerous shells. One shell hit her flight deck, detonating a depth charge and starting a fire. Another bomb entered her funnel and failed to explode, whilst the other two destroyed her anti-submarine mortar but also failed to explode. Five men were injured in the attack and HMS Plymouth was assisted in putting the fires out by HMS Avenger. She then underwent emergency repairs from the Stena Seaspread before rejoining the fleet. She then provided naval gunfire bombardment during the retaking of the island. After the surrender of Stanley, HMS Plymouth was the first ship to enter Stanley Harbour and it was in her wardroom that Lieutenant Commander Astiz signed the surrender document on March 20th.
HMS Plymouth left the Falklands with the County Class Destroyer HMS Glamorgan on June 21st, and returned to Rosyth on July 14th where she underwent full repairs. She had steamed 34,000 miles, fired over nine hundred 4.5 inch shells and destroyed five enemy aircraft.
Don't forget she carried a Wasp helicopter as well.
From the Beeb
From the association website:
HMS Plymouth participated in the 1982 Falklands Conflict. She sailed with Tide Class Tanker RFA Tidepool and County Class Destroyer HMS Antrim to South Georgia with Royal Marines and SAS aboard.
HMS Plymouth was then assigned to provide cover for the aircraft carriers and amphibious vessels and was the first vessel to enter San Carlos Water. On May 21st she came to the assistance of the bomb damaged Leander Class Frigate HMS Argonaut. HMS Plymouth was attacked herself on June 8th by five Mirage aircraft. Although she managed to destroy two and damage another two, HMS Plymouth was hit by four bombs and numerous shells. One shell hit her flight deck, detonating a depth charge and starting a fire. Another bomb entered her funnel and failed to explode, whilst the other two destroyed her anti-submarine mortar but also failed to explode. Five men were injured in the attack and HMS Plymouth was assisted in putting the fires out by HMS Avenger. She then underwent emergency repairs from the Stena Seaspread before rejoining the fleet. She then provided naval gunfire bombardment during the retaking of the island. After the surrender of Stanley, HMS Plymouth was the first ship to enter Stanley Harbour and it was in her wardroom that Lieutenant Commander Astiz signed the surrender document on March 20th.
HMS Plymouth left the Falklands with the County Class Destroyer HMS Glamorgan on June 21st, and returned to Rosyth on July 14th where she underwent full repairs. She had steamed 34,000 miles, fired over nine hundred 4.5 inch shells and destroyed five enemy aircraft.
Don't forget she carried a Wasp helicopter as well.
Art Nalls now has a website.
Nalls Aviation - Home of the Sea Harrier F/A2
Going back to the gliding issue:
While on a training mission attached to VMA-231, Art’s “Harrier” suffered a catastrophic engine failure near Richmond, Virginia. With little time to react, he essentially landed the Harrier engine-out at a civilian airfield. This was an extremely precise and risky landing, not normally attempted. The emergency procedures recommend an ejection. Art is the only person to have made such a landing and he was consequently awarded an Air Medal, with gold numeral one for the act.
From the Biography page.
Nalls Aviation - Home of the Sea Harrier F/A2
Going back to the gliding issue:
While on a training mission attached to VMA-231, Art’s “Harrier” suffered a catastrophic engine failure near Richmond, Virginia. With little time to react, he essentially landed the Harrier engine-out at a civilian airfield. This was an extremely precise and risky landing, not normally attempted. The emergency procedures recommend an ejection. Art is the only person to have made such a landing and he was consequently awarded an Air Medal, with gold numeral one for the act.
From the Biography page.
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Dead stick landing
As I have discussed with Art, and he happily acknowledges, at least 3 dead stick landings in a Harrier had been carried out quite a bit earlier after major engine snags.
Hugh Merewether did it twice, at Tangmere & Thorney Island, and Barry Tomkinson did it with a 2-seater at Boscombe.
In all those cases the 'landing' was very hairy indeed, and the pilots extremely brave & lucky to survive.
Art was no less brave, but it would appear just by seconds had the chance to compose himself & land intact, which the first 3 aircraft certainly weren't !
Hugh Merewether did it twice, at Tangmere & Thorney Island, and Barry Tomkinson did it with a 2-seater at Boscombe.
In all those cases the 'landing' was very hairy indeed, and the pilots extremely brave & lucky to survive.
Art was no less brave, but it would appear just by seconds had the chance to compose himself & land intact, which the first 3 aircraft certainly weren't !
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On a point of detail, Hugh’s two force landings were in P1127 aircraft not Harriers. Barrie Tonkinson’s was in a RAF standard Harrier T2.
The problems of force landing such aircraft (assuming you have the gliding range to get to the landing site) are judging the height and speed combination of the final approach and (importantly) getting round the flare. The P1127 was for its day a heavy high wing loading beast that did not want to fly conventionally at low speeds. However the P1127 was over 2000lb lighter than the subsequent RAF single seat Harrier and some 3500lb lighter than the RAF two seat Harrier. All of these aircraft had broadly similar wing areas. In this context Barrie’s achievement was (and remains) quite exceptional.
I go into this detail not to detract in any way from Hugh’s achievement but to emphasise what Barrie had going against him.
The problems of force landing such aircraft (assuming you have the gliding range to get to the landing site) are judging the height and speed combination of the final approach and (importantly) getting round the flare. The P1127 was for its day a heavy high wing loading beast that did not want to fly conventionally at low speeds. However the P1127 was over 2000lb lighter than the subsequent RAF single seat Harrier and some 3500lb lighter than the RAF two seat Harrier. All of these aircraft had broadly similar wing areas. In this context Barrie’s achievement was (and remains) quite exceptional.
I go into this detail not to detract in any way from Hugh’s achievement but to emphasise what Barrie had going against him.
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Dead-stick etc
Thank you Mr.Farley, I was aware of the first 2 being P1127 but was slack in not mentioning it - also I've read various spellings of Barrie Tonkinson's name including variations from his contemporaries - his exploits were well before my time, and I imagine I finally have the definitive !
I must say the late Don Middleton's books 'Tests of Character' and 'Test Pilots - British Test Flying to 1984' are worth their weight in gold to armchair anoraks like me, with a lot of technical info' and hair-raising - no BS - accounts presented in a very readable way, and far better than anything else vaguely similar that I've seen.
On a completely separate matter, of no great import, I'd be grateful if you could PM me sometime please - Andy Lawson.
I must say the late Don Middleton's books 'Tests of Character' and 'Test Pilots - British Test Flying to 1984' are worth their weight in gold to armchair anoraks like me, with a lot of technical info' and hair-raising - no BS - accounts presented in a very readable way, and far better than anything else vaguely similar that I've seen.
On a completely separate matter, of no great import, I'd be grateful if you could PM me sometime please - Andy Lawson.
From Defence News: First Sea Lord Opens Falklands Exhibition
On the Royal Navy website: Falklands Conflict 1982
On the Air Power page........
Airpower was crucial to the recapture of the Falklands. This has to be seen not only in the context of a relatively powerful Argentine air force and naval aviation but also related to operations at sea and on land.
British airpower was exercised by all three British services. The RAF provided airlift to Ascension Island and beyond, conducted maritime reconnaissance, provided airborne fuel and was able to bomb the runway at Stanley. Further, Harrier GR3 aircraft, mainly for ground attack, were deployed both from sea and latterly on shore. Royal Marine and Army Air Corps helicopters gave direct support to the land forces.
The Royal Navy supplied most of the airpower off the Falklands in many different ways. Helicopters present in most naval units were very versatile providing antisubmarine defence, attack of surface targets, supporting special forces and other land operations, medical and rescue support, and providing the everyday but very necessary ability to move people and stores around the ships. Latterly many were based ashore. Sea Harrier VTOL fighter provided the main longer-range air defence as well as attacking ground targets. They played a very large part in the reduction of Argentine offensive airpower. The whole airpower effort was characterised by an ability to improvise; for example, both aircraft carriers had far more than their normal peacetime capacity.
On the Royal Navy website: Falklands Conflict 1982
On the Air Power page........
Airpower was crucial to the recapture of the Falklands. This has to be seen not only in the context of a relatively powerful Argentine air force and naval aviation but also related to operations at sea and on land.
British airpower was exercised by all three British services. The RAF provided airlift to Ascension Island and beyond, conducted maritime reconnaissance, provided airborne fuel and was able to bomb the runway at Stanley. Further, Harrier GR3 aircraft, mainly for ground attack, were deployed both from sea and latterly on shore. Royal Marine and Army Air Corps helicopters gave direct support to the land forces.
The Royal Navy supplied most of the airpower off the Falklands in many different ways. Helicopters present in most naval units were very versatile providing antisubmarine defence, attack of surface targets, supporting special forces and other land operations, medical and rescue support, and providing the everyday but very necessary ability to move people and stores around the ships. Latterly many were based ashore. Sea Harrier VTOL fighter provided the main longer-range air defence as well as attacking ground targets. They played a very large part in the reduction of Argentine offensive airpower. The whole airpower effort was characterised by an ability to improvise; for example, both aircraft carriers had far more than their normal peacetime capacity.
Suspicion breeds confidence
Bad news - no Vulcan
I went to Dr Pleming's lecture today and he said they don't expect to meet the mid June first flight date. It won't be there. Shame.
Some of you may be interested in this article from Airscene
The Falklands Legacy
Oddly it doesn't mention the decision to develop Blue Vixen radar and upgrade the Sea Harrier to FA2 standard, then retire it prematurely (as discussed elsewhere)....
I understand that Illustrious will be in London for Falklands25 events in June. Why can't she have a Sea Harrier (possibly also a Harrier GR3, maybe a Sea King too) on deck? We have all three types in storage, and if they can't be flown.... I seem to remember seeing a picture from Bosnia where a Shar was lifted by a US CH53.
The Falklands Legacy
Oddly it doesn't mention the decision to develop Blue Vixen radar and upgrade the Sea Harrier to FA2 standard, then retire it prematurely (as discussed elsewhere)....
I understand that Illustrious will be in London for Falklands25 events in June. Why can't she have a Sea Harrier (possibly also a Harrier GR3, maybe a Sea King too) on deck? We have all three types in storage, and if they can't be flown.... I seem to remember seeing a picture from Bosnia where a Shar was lifted by a US CH53.
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Oddly it doesn't mention the decision to develop Blue Vixen radar and upgrade the Sea Harrier to FA2 standard, then retire it prematurely (as discussed elsewhere)....
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Seajet at anniversary
Sounds an excellent idea to me, WEBF - a Sea Harrier ( albeit an FA2 unless Yeovilton could lend their cobbled together FRS1 replica ) on the ski ramp, as in Falklands departure & arrival back shots, would be an essential part of what otherwise sounds increasingly like a bad joke...
Interesting that the powers that be, deem the sea jets one engine & glide ability a problem over London.
They didnt seem to have a problem shoving them out over freezing cold water, with no SAR cover.
They didnt seem to have a problem shoving them out over freezing cold water, with no SAR cover.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The Harrier flew over London in 1969 in the London-New York air race.
4-11 May 1969 - A Harrier of No. 1 Sqn wins the Daily Mail London - New York transatlantic air race. The flight involves 4 air-to-air refuellings and took 6 hr 11 min 57 sec.
http://www.raf.mod.uk/history_old/t_...arrierrace.jpg
4-11 May 1969 - A Harrier of No. 1 Sqn wins the Daily Mail London - New York transatlantic air race. The flight involves 4 air-to-air refuellings and took 6 hr 11 min 57 sec.
http://www.raf.mod.uk/history_old/t_...arrierrace.jpg