Continually failing RAF Fitness Test.
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The bi-annual fit vs fat debate is always entertaining. as ever the two camps are extremes and whilst the fitties are enraged by the special pleading of the fatties on important points of principle, it comes down to a single issue:
The quasi-scientific application of an arbitrary standard will do more damage in excluding the capable but unfit, than in making the fat run (slightly) faster.
Fitness for purpose (as has been stated) is a leadership issue: fitness testing is job creation for PTIs. Above all the process does not give the Jocks the right to be smug. It is this rather unpleasnt posture of unearned (moral) superiority that annoys.
Fitter you may be: better at your job, probably not (unless it is primarily running or lifting heavy weights). Without descending to personal insult, all you racing snakes on this thread who cannot be bothered to correct your spelling are rather more alarming to me than the slow of foot. If your FRAGO or other order contains similar mistakes, your team may run out of fuel or ammunition or end up in the wrong place. I'll use the gym when you use a dictionary. Detail is important: "Spare him!" or "spear him!"
In my last six months sandyside the two serious injuries requiring evacuation in my immediate unit were from broken arms as result of falls playing five a side football!
The quasi-scientific application of an arbitrary standard will do more damage in excluding the capable but unfit, than in making the fat run (slightly) faster.
Fitness for purpose (as has been stated) is a leadership issue: fitness testing is job creation for PTIs. Above all the process does not give the Jocks the right to be smug. It is this rather unpleasnt posture of unearned (moral) superiority that annoys.
Fitter you may be: better at your job, probably not (unless it is primarily running or lifting heavy weights). Without descending to personal insult, all you racing snakes on this thread who cannot be bothered to correct your spelling are rather more alarming to me than the slow of foot. If your FRAGO or other order contains similar mistakes, your team may run out of fuel or ammunition or end up in the wrong place. I'll use the gym when you use a dictionary. Detail is important: "Spare him!" or "spear him!"
In my last six months sandyside the two serious injuries requiring evacuation in my immediate unit were from broken arms as result of falls playing five a side football!
Last edited by fawkes; 23rd Nov 2009 at 13:22. Reason: incompetent typing resulting from apoplexy
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What if.......
A highly experienced and decorated PAS Flt Lt Instructor on a sqn fails his fitness test because of a long-trem knee injury.
He regular runs 30Km a week and is not a lard - arse.
He is A1 G1 Z1 but fails his test and, according to the rule, is admin discharged.
What about his pension rights and gratuity not to mention who will fill his post and replace his ability, leadership and experience?
A highly experienced and decorated PAS Flt Lt Instructor on a sqn fails his fitness test because of a long-trem knee injury.
He regular runs 30Km a week and is not a lard - arse.
He is A1 G1 Z1 but fails his test and, according to the rule, is admin discharged.
What about his pension rights and gratuity not to mention who will fill his post and replace his ability, leadership and experience?
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I have to admit , it was a factor, albeit a small one, in my PVR in '99.
Despite playing plenty of football, badminton, indulging in cycling and god knows who knows how many other things, I've never been able to be a runner. So, just squeezing under the mile and half at Swinderby and being part of a largely sendentary trade, plus the fact that between when I joined and when I left that there was no end-to-end phys programme or ethos in the way the army have always had, its hardly surprising that it fell down our list of priorities. The beep test, I found largely no different. Same end effect.
Having said that, considering which direction light blue is going in 10 years after I left, I'm glad I left when I did. The results will speak for themselves in due course... and probably already are doing.
Its perfectly simple, if you want your personnel to be effectively battle fit all the time then you have to introduce and stick to, an Army style continual enforced phys regime. No other way is going to work.
Despite playing plenty of football, badminton, indulging in cycling and god knows who knows how many other things, I've never been able to be a runner. So, just squeezing under the mile and half at Swinderby and being part of a largely sendentary trade, plus the fact that between when I joined and when I left that there was no end-to-end phys programme or ethos in the way the army have always had, its hardly surprising that it fell down our list of priorities. The beep test, I found largely no different. Same end effect.
Having said that, considering which direction light blue is going in 10 years after I left, I'm glad I left when I did. The results will speak for themselves in due course... and probably already are doing.
Its perfectly simple, if you want your personnel to be effectively battle fit all the time then you have to introduce and stick to, an Army style continual enforced phys regime. No other way is going to work.
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As always, the point is being completely missed. Maintaining a basic level of fitness is part of military (and self) discipline. I know that most (Crabs and non Crabs) might debate whether the RAF actually fall into the military description, but it's what you signed up to.
I imagine that most of you don't go to work unshaven, with hair down to your shoulders and mud on your boots (shiny shoes!). If you did, it wouldn't make you any less effective at flying/fixing/storing etc, but you accept that part of being in the military (or RAF) requires certain standards. It seems that many of you don't read that across to basic fitness.
Blighter
I put it to you that someone who is A1, G1, Z1 and runs 30km per week will not fail such a basic test. If he/she does, then it will be becauses they are carrying an injury which either has not been reported (as was mentioned earlier in the thread), or has not been dealt with.
fawkes
ah ha! The old 'I know someone who was fit and were always unfit' chestnut!
I know someone who smoked throughout their life and died at 95. I also know someone who never smoked and died at 50. Which example should I follow if I want to live a long and happy life??
I imagine that most of you don't go to work unshaven, with hair down to your shoulders and mud on your boots (shiny shoes!). If you did, it wouldn't make you any less effective at flying/fixing/storing etc, but you accept that part of being in the military (or RAF) requires certain standards. It seems that many of you don't read that across to basic fitness.
Blighter
I put it to you that someone who is A1, G1, Z1 and runs 30km per week will not fail such a basic test. If he/she does, then it will be becauses they are carrying an injury which either has not been reported (as was mentioned earlier in the thread), or has not been dealt with.
fawkes
ah ha! The old 'I know someone who was fit and were always unfit' chestnut!
I know someone who smoked throughout their life and died at 95. I also know someone who never smoked and died at 50. Which example should I follow if I want to live a long and happy life??
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Fawkes condescendingly said:
Then he made the mistake of saying:
When all along he had a hidden secret.
Can I suggest that you take your dictionary to the gym with you?
As someone once said "detail is important"
all you racing snakes on this thread who cannot be bothered to correct your spelling are rather more alarming to me
I'll use the gym when you use a dictionary
The bi-annual fit vs fat debate is always entertaining. as ever the two camps are extremes and whilst the fitties are enraged by the special pleading of the fatties on important poinbts of principle, it comes down to a single issue:
As someone once said "detail is important"
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Thank you FOSM - I can spell, I never claimed to be able to type! At the risk of being politically incorrect it is homonyms that annoy me (principle and principal, their and they're, etc). I'll get my towel..
I don't have a problem with the RAFFT, and although the debate over VO2 Max and sport billy's who injure themselves on ops is entertaining, this has, as someone pointed out, resurfaced as the fat v fit perennial argument.
It is not the RAFFT thats bothers me (I see the need to maintain a baseline of personal fitness), it is the assumption by the airships that by introducing a test, it improves fitness.
Going back to when I was at school, I see to remember some lessons in the run up to my O Level examinations. I wasn't just plonked into the exams, and told my future was over if I failed.
I agree with the RAFFT, as long as it is a measure within a clearly concieved strategy; which it isn't.
If we are required to undertake a Fitness Test, we should all undertake organised PT regularly, and the messing arrangements should take account of healthy eating trends, instead of a token salad bar with grated cheese, coleslaw and chopped pork pies.
Some of you will argue that organised PT is already in place, and in some places it is. A welcome and positive step.
However a number of pinchpoint trades have no idea for certain what they are doing tomorrow, and where they will be. In many cases, organised PT is the first thing to slide indefinately right on the programme.
Yes, in the PTI utopia, we would always be working out in our spare time, applying our own motivation and self discipline, but it is important to factor in time with family (for those who dwell mainly East these days), night flying, secondary duties, illness, revision for trade/advancement course, and of course shiftwork, which can completely screw up body clocks and wreak havoc with the body.
I'm not an apologist for anyone who sits on their ass and does sweet FA, but one size does not always fit all, and if the RAF is genuine about improving fitness standards amongst its workforce, it needs to produce more than just rhetoric and an extra bleep test.
Lets see organised PT for everyone, 3 times a week with no get out. Lets see a review of what we are fed, particularly when on ops.
It will play havoc with the way we do business and provide a service, but will increase fitness levels; guaranteed.
CAS needs to get off the fence and provide direction. Which is the priority for those in pinchpoint positions?
It is not the RAFFT thats bothers me (I see the need to maintain a baseline of personal fitness), it is the assumption by the airships that by introducing a test, it improves fitness.
Going back to when I was at school, I see to remember some lessons in the run up to my O Level examinations. I wasn't just plonked into the exams, and told my future was over if I failed.
I agree with the RAFFT, as long as it is a measure within a clearly concieved strategy; which it isn't.
If we are required to undertake a Fitness Test, we should all undertake organised PT regularly, and the messing arrangements should take account of healthy eating trends, instead of a token salad bar with grated cheese, coleslaw and chopped pork pies.
Some of you will argue that organised PT is already in place, and in some places it is. A welcome and positive step.
However a number of pinchpoint trades have no idea for certain what they are doing tomorrow, and where they will be. In many cases, organised PT is the first thing to slide indefinately right on the programme.
Yes, in the PTI utopia, we would always be working out in our spare time, applying our own motivation and self discipline, but it is important to factor in time with family (for those who dwell mainly East these days), night flying, secondary duties, illness, revision for trade/advancement course, and of course shiftwork, which can completely screw up body clocks and wreak havoc with the body.
I'm not an apologist for anyone who sits on their ass and does sweet FA, but one size does not always fit all, and if the RAF is genuine about improving fitness standards amongst its workforce, it needs to produce more than just rhetoric and an extra bleep test.
Lets see organised PT for everyone, 3 times a week with no get out. Lets see a review of what we are fed, particularly when on ops.
It will play havoc with the way we do business and provide a service, but will increase fitness levels; guaranteed.
CAS needs to get off the fence and provide direction. Which is the priority for those in pinchpoint positions?
A highly experienced and decorated PAS Flt Lt Instructor on a sqn fails his fitness test because of a long-trem knee injury.
He regular runs 30Km a week and is not a lard - arse.
He is A1 G1 Z1 but fails his test and, according to the rule, is admin discharged.
What about his pension rights and gratuity not to mention who will fill his post and replace his ability, leadership and experience?
He regular runs 30Km a week and is not a lard - arse.
He is A1 G1 Z1 but fails his test and, according to the rule, is admin discharged.
What about his pension rights and gratuity not to mention who will fill his post and replace his ability, leadership and experience?
If he's unfit the bike test too, but the docs don't think the injury affects his flying (or subsequent yomping around British hills waiting for rescue/running away from the Taliban), then he'll end up as one of startermotor's people who are fine for their job but can't do the MSFT.
I can't imagine we'll ever get to the stage where someone is disciplined for being unable to complete the test for a reason that's not entirely their fault. I missed a test once because I was injured and couldn't do part of it; I popped to the docs, got a month's exemption, had that extended while the physio fixed me up, then completed the test when I was ruled to be fit again. I've got a squadron mate who's been written up as "unfit the MSFT" for over a year now due to an injury.
If you've got a problem that means you can't complete the test, don't just trog along, fail it, and whine; get to the docs and get fixed.
On the other hand, I'd still like to see the introduction of more targetted branch-specific fitness tests. I was put through the Fighter Aircrew Conditioning Test that the RAF pinched from the USAF during training; lots of muscular endurance exercises where the weight was based on a proportion of bodyweight; and it seemed much more appropriate for a pilot, as it was meant to indicate how likely you were to survive sitting there at high G for lengthy periods.
I agree with 5 Forward 6 Back.
A similar thing happened to me. I injured my leg this year just before my fitness test was due. I was given plenty of time exempt the test by the doc and help from the physio while I recovered and I passed this years number of beeps/press ups/sit ups with no problems, ending up with some excellent advice on warm-up and cool-down routines to prevent further problems as a bonus. It was a complete non event and I had the impression that the medical and physio 'system' was on-side and not trying to 'trap' me; I could have taken as long as required protected by an exemption until I was repaired and ready. Based on my experiance and that of 5 Forward 6 Back I would suggest that one should have no fear of a short to medium term injury causing a problem.
However, my injury was service related and happened on duty, therefore all of the above seems rather fair and in line with 'duty of care'.
Does anyone know what would happen if one was permenantly unable to do the fitness test due to an injury that happened off duty, for example skiing; something that leaves you unable to do the shuttle run, but still fit enough to fly and ride a bike/keep fit? Does one automatically have the chance to do an equivalent on the bike (after all, one has to do sport to stay fit for the test!) or could 'the system' play nasty games. If so, I suppose the answer is to limp to the fitness test and trip up spectacularly for effect at beep level one, therefore proving in front of witnesses that the injury was service related! Any ideas?
NP
A similar thing happened to me. I injured my leg this year just before my fitness test was due. I was given plenty of time exempt the test by the doc and help from the physio while I recovered and I passed this years number of beeps/press ups/sit ups with no problems, ending up with some excellent advice on warm-up and cool-down routines to prevent further problems as a bonus. It was a complete non event and I had the impression that the medical and physio 'system' was on-side and not trying to 'trap' me; I could have taken as long as required protected by an exemption until I was repaired and ready. Based on my experiance and that of 5 Forward 6 Back I would suggest that one should have no fear of a short to medium term injury causing a problem.
However, my injury was service related and happened on duty, therefore all of the above seems rather fair and in line with 'duty of care'.
Does anyone know what would happen if one was permenantly unable to do the fitness test due to an injury that happened off duty, for example skiing; something that leaves you unable to do the shuttle run, but still fit enough to fly and ride a bike/keep fit? Does one automatically have the chance to do an equivalent on the bike (after all, one has to do sport to stay fit for the test!) or could 'the system' play nasty games. If so, I suppose the answer is to limp to the fitness test and trip up spectacularly for effect at beep level one, therefore proving in front of witnesses that the injury was service related! Any ideas?
NP
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As Jabba said....
Its perfectly simple, if you want your personnel to be effectively battle fit all the time then you have to introduce and stick to, an Army style continual enforced phys regime. No other way is going to work.
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Yep, me too. How about the whole station get wednesdays off for sport and not just admin wing? How about 1day off for organised phys/Sports events etc to catch up after getting back from routes with min crew rest for a week, sometimes a month?
I love deploying for a month, get 10 hours off between the next crew in, with only 1 day off in ten, usually knackered, before you can contemplate in theatre phys.
Its very easy to get hitleresque regarding punitative measures, but if you arent giving your guys the time to go and do phys, especially the guys that dont work 9 to 5 jobs like most station blunties, then its hardly a fair system.
Sqn runs? Bring it on!
I love deploying for a month, get 10 hours off between the next crew in, with only 1 day off in ten, usually knackered, before you can contemplate in theatre phys.
Its very easy to get hitleresque regarding punitative measures, but if you arent giving your guys the time to go and do phys, especially the guys that dont work 9 to 5 jobs like most station blunties, then its hardly a fair system.
Sqn runs? Bring it on!
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Without wanting to come across as a moaner, if the RAF want warfighters first, there should be provision for training as warfighters, working on a flightline, trips to the gym are definatly low on the management priority list, in fact only when one of my colleagues was on a formal warning, was he allowed suffcient time off to train.
You may cry that it is a persons own responsibility to keep themselves fit, i agree to some extent but it would seem the opportunities afforded to some are not enjoyed by all sections. I was in the Gym this evening and on their weekly booking system the main hall is booked on a permanent basis by PSF, GEF, CQI etc etc twice a week. On my sqn there is no and never has been in the last seven years, any formalized sqn sports/gym hours, there is on occasion an opportunity to pop over the three miles to the gym for an hour, but the majority of the time its just a fight to get the a/c ready for flying. Couple this with a shift system which makes most of us feel like walking zombies then im sure you might understand why gripes start to arise.
Just my 2p's worth
You may cry that it is a persons own responsibility to keep themselves fit, i agree to some extent but it would seem the opportunities afforded to some are not enjoyed by all sections. I was in the Gym this evening and on their weekly booking system the main hall is booked on a permanent basis by PSF, GEF, CQI etc etc twice a week. On my sqn there is no and never has been in the last seven years, any formalized sqn sports/gym hours, there is on occasion an opportunity to pop over the three miles to the gym for an hour, but the majority of the time its just a fight to get the a/c ready for flying. Couple this with a shift system which makes most of us feel like walking zombies then im sure you might understand why gripes start to arise.
Just my 2p's worth
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Stayed out of this debate as it's way too polarised with the ever typical fit v fat slanging match. However what some of the more pious amongst you need to realise there are quite a few folk who simply do not fit into the niches that it's so easy to assign us to.
35 years in and I have played just about most sports on offer. Football at Station level, taken part in just about every inter section/CO's Cup event during my time, played golf, skied, jogged and ridden a bike and never once got even close to failing a fitness test.
Sadly not all of us are able to maintain that level of fitness for ever as for some of us the body simply will not take it. 20 years of rotary and fixed wing flying combined with all that time playing impact sport has now seen my knee give in and I have spent the last year being diagnosed and now am waiting for a total knee replacement.
If everything goes to plan within 6 months I will be fit again, I will pass a fitness test but it will have to be on the bike. Because the new knee will eventually wear out I will be unfit running or carrying heavy weights which means I am undeployable but I will have a flying cat.
So in short I will have passed the RAFFT but will be undeployable due to my bionic leg, I wonder where I would fit with some of the more extreme theories on here
35 years in and I have played just about most sports on offer. Football at Station level, taken part in just about every inter section/CO's Cup event during my time, played golf, skied, jogged and ridden a bike and never once got even close to failing a fitness test.
Sadly not all of us are able to maintain that level of fitness for ever as for some of us the body simply will not take it. 20 years of rotary and fixed wing flying combined with all that time playing impact sport has now seen my knee give in and I have spent the last year being diagnosed and now am waiting for a total knee replacement.
If everything goes to plan within 6 months I will be fit again, I will pass a fitness test but it will have to be on the bike. Because the new knee will eventually wear out I will be unfit running or carrying heavy weights which means I am undeployable but I will have a flying cat.
So in short I will have passed the RAFFT but will be undeployable due to my bionic leg, I wonder where I would fit with some of the more extreme theories on here
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Future
I read this thread with great interest, having done my bit in the RAF from 1976 to 2002 and keeping myself fairly fit with Hill Walking, running and a bit of swimming, plus passing whatever fitness test was chucked at me. But times seem to have changed and will change even more in the near future for the Royal Air force. I started regular OOA from 1991 onwards, but nothing like what the current folks are doing in some of the most intense period of RAF operations for donkey’s years, coupled with more crap than ever and fitness testing which seem to be organised at the top by folks who have probably never done one. I think we all understand the need for basic fitness in the RAF especially the need to be able to complete OOA or whatever they are called today in a deployable Air Force, but threatening good folk who have given years of service with pass this or you are out on your arse with no pension (roomers on E-Goat) is disgusting and insulting to personnel across all ranks. The latest news on the prospective cuts to the RAF in the Times in which it will be cut from 40,000 to 30,000 will leave little or no time to sh*t never mind spend time down the gym. The country is slowly coming out of recession and jobs will be out there especially for guys and girls from the RAF with skills that industry wants and especially in the logistics field which is the fastest growing sector. I have worked with both the Army and the RAF Regt in my time and both those organisation were on the whole more fitter than the average RAF person, but their day when in barracks or station was quite structured and compulsory PT and battle training was part of the normal working day so they should be fitter. If I was in now and done enough time for my immediate pension I would be calling it a day. A word of warning to all those who love all this fitness testing and would stick their heads in a bucket of Sh*t if the RAF asked them to, you will get older and your body will fail and the RAF will crap on you and there will be little sympathy. Something stinks about all this and the RAF is looking to save money and anybody weak best look out. During the drawdown of the RAF from 89,000 to 50,000 during the 90s the admin trade was kept fairly strong but once they had done the dirty deed they were cut to the bone, so PTIs once you have done all your failing as the test becomes harder and harder you lot will be tossed to one side.
To all the current serving members of the Royal Air Force who are putting up with so much you have my admiration (apart from the ones with their head in the bucket)
To all the current serving members of the Royal Air Force who are putting up with so much you have my admiration (apart from the ones with their head in the bucket)
Last edited by SCAFITE; 24th Nov 2009 at 15:33.
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****fer
What has always been required is dedicated training time allocated in the weekly and monthly program for fitness AND sports. These sessions to be run by a dedicated PEd member and all that are programmed to attend are to attend. This has been needed for many years but unfortunately the horse has bolted on this matter before the door. If only they had thought of this years ago!!!!! Keep up the good work Guys and Gals.
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Told you the thread should have been locked. I shall repeat again - the beep test is not the best solution, it could do with being one of a choice - beep, run or bike. If they set the standards to achieve the target VMO or whatever it is called.
As someone who is on permanent rehab, drugs and a pension with the only outlook to be worsening and probably a wheel chair - Thanks RAF.... I have at times been a little bitter.
The beep test is reknown as a destroyer of knees, the majority of the RAF do not have 9-5 works and far more commitments than a desk driving blotter jotter type.
If the RAF is serious about fitness it needs to give the same time and access to training and healthy food to all - otherwise it is discrimination. all you lineys who never get to the mess for lunch and only get leftovers at dinner step forwards.........
Since leaving I have put on about two and a half stone - I'm not doing any real sport anymore, I'm definately fatter,much crapper at running (I can feel the impacts into my spine) but I am swimming as often as I can. The war pension pays for my membership and last month I swam a mile and a half. (in one session)
Didn't see many racing snakes there either.
Fitness is subjective, either make subjective testing or make the oppertunities for training available for all equally. The arbitary moving of the goalposts does smack of "we need to downsize - what is the quickest way?"
I did like the idea of remedial shooting - yes please....
As someone who is on permanent rehab, drugs and a pension with the only outlook to be worsening and probably a wheel chair - Thanks RAF.... I have at times been a little bitter.
The beep test is reknown as a destroyer of knees, the majority of the RAF do not have 9-5 works and far more commitments than a desk driving blotter jotter type.
If the RAF is serious about fitness it needs to give the same time and access to training and healthy food to all - otherwise it is discrimination. all you lineys who never get to the mess for lunch and only get leftovers at dinner step forwards.........
Since leaving I have put on about two and a half stone - I'm not doing any real sport anymore, I'm definately fatter,much crapper at running (I can feel the impacts into my spine) but I am swimming as often as I can. The war pension pays for my membership and last month I swam a mile and a half. (in one session)
Didn't see many racing snakes there either.
Fitness is subjective, either make subjective testing or make the oppertunities for training available for all equally. The arbitary moving of the goalposts does smack of "we need to downsize - what is the quickest way?"
I did like the idea of remedial shooting - yes please....
I did like the idea of remedial shooting - yes please....