Night trg w/o lights

[tmmorris]

A Puma has just beetled past over my house without any sort of lighting (in the dark, naturally). Is this allowed, or did he perhaps have a problem? I thought lights off training was only in segregated areas - or should I be looking more carefully out of my PA28 at night..?

Tim

[L J R]

Who is more of a fool, the Puma driver at night or the PA-28 driver at night?

[mayorofgander]

It's the latest in a series of energy saving moves by the helicopter fleet to claw back some vital overspend. Next on the agenda is only using those rotating thingys above the driver's head for 50 seconds of every minute. Should result in a significant fuel saving. And if you leave anything made of kevlar back in the cupboard, there is a significant weight saving too!!!
Rumours that we are just shouting 'BANG' at the enemy have so far, been proven unfounded.

MOG

PS. The above ain't true...I think!!!

[timex]

Who is more of a fool, the Puma driver at night or the PA-28 driver at night?

The Puma guy with no lights (unless auth'd), the PA28 guy was on the ground at home...

[Heywood Djablowme]

.....if it was dark and he was 'dark', how do you know what it was?

[Spugford]

Flying at night w/o lights ok if in close/trail formation. Someone in the formation must carry the 'flash' at all times.

That's what we work to in my world anyway.

[Hummingfrog]

Many moons ago when 18 Sqn flew proper helicopters the then Boss ( White Tornado) decided that the whole squadron would return to Big G at night with no lights. A night stream navex was worked out with a/c leaving from their flight hides at 5 min intervals about 16 helicopters in total.

This seemed a fine idea All went well and I didn't see another helicopter until I arrived at Big G - the scary bit was although we left the exercise area in the order Pegasus 1-16 we didn't arrive at Big G in that order

HF

[Skidkid]

Aaaah memories!

Whatever happened to the 'White Tornado'?

[neilmac]

Puma Lights

Tim,

Hi ya check ur PMs

Neil

[tmmorris]

.....if it was dark and he was 'dark', how do you know what it was?

There's a lot of light pollution here; it was a damp night, lowish cloudbase, so there was a background glow; he was clearly silhouetted; I teach ac rec to cadets; I live near a station where Pumas live; it was heading in that direction... need any more?

There were plenty of other ac around but he wasn't in formation - I saw him clearly against an otherwise empty patch of sky. There was nothing within, say, 1/4 mile in any direction, except possibly astern of him, but surely it's the lead who keeps lights on?

Tim

[ProfessionalStudent]

Originally Posted by tmmorris

There was nothing within, say, 1/4 mile in any direction, except possibly astern of him, but surely it's the lead who keeps lights on?
Tim

Tim,

Not nessecelery. Let's just say that at least one of the formation will have lights on.

[JNo]

Originally Posted by tmmorris

but surely it's the lead who keeps lights on?

No it's the number two (in a two-ship before the pedants butt in) who has the lights on, as he has to scan through looking at the number one and if the number one has got lights on especially a strobe it wouldn't do his vis any favours.

Originally Posted by tmmorris

There were plenty of other ac around but he wasn't in formation

Trust me, he was

[Mmmmnice]

Tim - I suspect the only problem the Plastic Pig driver had was not knowing where the light switch was - or how it operated possibly?

Re: the WT - he didn't make it to any of the 18(B) Sqn reunions that he was invited to - not sure why. No doubt he has retired on the proceeds of his time with Annington Homes

[SARREMF]

Chaps,
Not wishing to teach people to suck eggs but it is perfectly legal to fly lights out at night - and as a singleton - as long as you NOTAM the route. Then every other low level air user should know you are about and avoid you. This applies to dedicated user areas as well just in case someone mentions that next.
Of course he might just have not put them on by accident! It does happen!

Dooh, mmmnice got that bit out before me

[Skidkid]

So -

What does a police or SAR pilot do?

Cancel a priority task because someone is NOTAM'd to be training, lights out, in the area that they need to operate in?

[360BakTrak]

Nope...they're a category A flight, therefore have priority over just about everything else in the sky.

[Skidkid]

Absolutely Right

But,

Does the lights-out training flight pilot know that the police/SAR aircraft is there, probably not!

Is he/she on the same frequency, probably not!

Can the police/SAR pilot see the lights-out aircraft, probably not!

[the_flying_cop]

Originally Posted by 360BakTrak

Nope...they're a category A flight, therefore have priority over just about everything else in the sky.

Actually Cat B for most of the time, to reduce inconvenience to fellow aviators.

.....as much as we would like priority at all times lol

TFC

[360BakTrak]

.....can the mil 'lights-out' aircraft see the lights of the police/helimed heli? Probably.

[H Peacock]

When I first flew the Puma we always had Nav lights on, day and night. Now this was in the days when we did lots of night work, but didn't do much NVG (you know when the auth sheet was filled up with all the guff out of GASOs about exactly what you were going to do!)

Anyway, in everything I've flown since (fixed wing) I have always felt the desire to do the same, ie Nav lights on day and night. I'm frequently told that they should not be used during the day; is this correct? Having observed other fleets there appears to be a bit of a mix. Most of the Tonkas that I see during the day do have Nav lights on.