BBC story on poor Armed Forces Accommodation
Well covered on the lunchtime BBC news but what annoyed me was the reporter interviewing the anonymous brize wifey claimed that service personnel stay "virtually rent free" perpetuating the myth that its all free accommodation!
Its highly variable but an MQ with a garage costs about £300 and we pay a probable national average £115 per moth in lieu of council tax for the worst possible housing.
Its highly variable but an MQ with a garage costs about £300 and we pay a probable national average £115 per moth in lieu of council tax for the worst possible housing.
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Proletarian makes a good point about the differing priorities (and funding levels) applied by the 3 services to their own areas of interest. However, the DHE (now DE(HD)) have been running the show on the FQ side for quite some time now and we ought to be seeing some standardisation.
That said, I have nothing but contempt for Portillo and his lackeys, who allowed the vast majority of the MQ estate to be sold for peanuts in the mid-90s, and in many areas this is biting us in the arse - especially with the policy of releasing a percentage (10%?) of the FQs we have each year. Stn cdrs are coming under pressure at some units to identify FQs they don't need.
When I was at High Wycombe, the Stn Cdr (a wg cdr) was so fed up with the DHE that he personally took responsibility for the air ranks and gp capts so they didn't have to deal with DHE themselves. Anyone else had to report stuff in the usual way. Came home one day to find our oil-fired boiler had been condemned during a routine safety inspection as it was leaking carbon monoxide into the house (which explained my kids' headaches). DHE refused to replace it for 6 weeks because we had an immersion heater and coal fire - hardly practical with 3 children, one aged 2! When I mentioned it to the 1* he said he had never had any problems with DHE - I wonder why?
On the SLA side, the MoD will point to Project SLAM, which was intended to provide modern accommodation for our people, but has cost an absolute fortune (I have heard several figures varying from £30K to £70K per room). If anyone has the correct figures, please post them, I am sure they will be of interest, but considering the MoD already own the land (said to be more than 50% of the cost of a new house), how on earth did they come up with these costs? They would have been better building 'off-the-shelf' Travel Lodges. I am sure these would have been more than acceptable for the the vast majority of ranks!
Fundamentally, though, the MoD is broke, so don't expect much - it's nice to hear someone at the top speak out though.
STH
That said, I have nothing but contempt for Portillo and his lackeys, who allowed the vast majority of the MQ estate to be sold for peanuts in the mid-90s, and in many areas this is biting us in the arse - especially with the policy of releasing a percentage (10%?) of the FQs we have each year. Stn cdrs are coming under pressure at some units to identify FQs they don't need.
When I was at High Wycombe, the Stn Cdr (a wg cdr) was so fed up with the DHE that he personally took responsibility for the air ranks and gp capts so they didn't have to deal with DHE themselves. Anyone else had to report stuff in the usual way. Came home one day to find our oil-fired boiler had been condemned during a routine safety inspection as it was leaking carbon monoxide into the house (which explained my kids' headaches). DHE refused to replace it for 6 weeks because we had an immersion heater and coal fire - hardly practical with 3 children, one aged 2! When I mentioned it to the 1* he said he had never had any problems with DHE - I wonder why?
On the SLA side, the MoD will point to Project SLAM, which was intended to provide modern accommodation for our people, but has cost an absolute fortune (I have heard several figures varying from £30K to £70K per room). If anyone has the correct figures, please post them, I am sure they will be of interest, but considering the MoD already own the land (said to be more than 50% of the cost of a new house), how on earth did they come up with these costs? They would have been better building 'off-the-shelf' Travel Lodges. I am sure these would have been more than acceptable for the the vast majority of ranks!
Fundamentally, though, the MoD is broke, so don't expect much - it's nice to hear someone at the top speak out though.
STH
Did the British Armed Forces Federation initiate/escalate this story having written to the Times 29 Dec (accoridng to their website)?
If so - well done - I had wondered what the £30 to join would be used for.
If so - well done - I had wondered what the £30 to join would be used for.
2006 and I have no shower in my antique in wilts! Also the wiring is that old and out of date when I enquired about getting one fitted privately the plumber/electrictian wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.
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STH
I don't know the figures, but I was at dinner recently with a chap who sold the likes of SLAM to the MoD. The plans they offered originally were the same they had sold across the country to Universities, the NHS etc for their accommodation needs, which on the whole are similar to our SLA and there are several standards to choose from.
He said that the MoD refused them all and opted for a "bespoke" version, to the point where some rooms were only a foot or so bigger in any dimension. To this, his company rubbed their collective hands together and charged somewhere between 50 and 100% more.
How accurate these figures are, one can only guess, but if you want a wardrobe, an off-the-shelf, flat-pack one from MFI will cost you £110, but a bespoke version just a little bigger to your own specs made by a chippy will cost you in the region of £500-700.
The MoD paying over the odds for little or no extra tangible benefit? Not in my lifetime
I don't know the figures, but I was at dinner recently with a chap who sold the likes of SLAM to the MoD. The plans they offered originally were the same they had sold across the country to Universities, the NHS etc for their accommodation needs, which on the whole are similar to our SLA and there are several standards to choose from.
He said that the MoD refused them all and opted for a "bespoke" version, to the point where some rooms were only a foot or so bigger in any dimension. To this, his company rubbed their collective hands together and charged somewhere between 50 and 100% more.
How accurate these figures are, one can only guess, but if you want a wardrobe, an off-the-shelf, flat-pack one from MFI will cost you £110, but a bespoke version just a little bigger to your own specs made by a chippy will cost you in the region of £500-700.
The MoD paying over the odds for little or no extra tangible benefit? Not in my lifetime
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SFA Rent Rises
LFFC,
Thanks for your prompt pointer towards the AFPRB report - very useful.
But I thought the AFPRB undertakes its review annually whilst there is an undercurrent of increasing our SFA rent over a period of time to bring it in line with civilian comparables. So are these continued rent increases just annual "good ideas (recommendations)" from AFPRB, or is there a greater MOD policy to keep ramping up the prices? Or am I completely wrong and the AFPRB sets policy as well as "recommendations"?
If I were a cynic I'd be thinking they want to keep pushing up the prices to force more of us out and sell as much as possible.
Thanks for your prompt pointer towards the AFPRB report - very useful.
But I thought the AFPRB undertakes its review annually whilst there is an undercurrent of increasing our SFA rent over a period of time to bring it in line with civilian comparables. So are these continued rent increases just annual "good ideas (recommendations)" from AFPRB, or is there a greater MOD policy to keep ramping up the prices? Or am I completely wrong and the AFPRB sets policy as well as "recommendations"?
If I were a cynic I'd be thinking they want to keep pushing up the prices to force more of us out and sell as much as possible.
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Except as you well know the "savings" from Trident abolition won't go to such things, will they?
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SLAM is indeed hugley expensive - our FMS people have been talking about 60-70k per bedspace. As the 'owner' of a SLAM block I can vouch for previous posters' claims that despite the huge cost it was definitely built by the lowest bidder - although superficially excellent the fixtures started falling off in the first week of occupation and in 10 year's time it's going to be pretty tatty. Once the current projects are finished there aren't going to be any more, so MoD are being disingenuous when they imply that all will be rosy when the project is over. When SLAM was offered my station asked if they could have the money but project manage ourselves through local contractors to get a far better deal. No prizes for guessing the answer to that one!
No money has been spent on the FQs on my unit for several years and slowly but surely they are deteriorating as a result. As someone who has been a landlord of a property as well as a DHE tenant I don't know how they get away with the service they provide. I can't help but feel that the estate is being deliberately run down do reduce occupancy levels to the point where it can be argued that quaters aren't needed any more and the whole lot can be sold off to civilians. Or pehaps the more rational explanation is that the original sell-off was an ill-conceived plan to raise a quick buck with insufficient regard to the long term consequences, but now that MoD realise this it's all too late and too expensive to do anything about it.
At least it's encouraging to see this becoming an issue in the media, perhaps we'll get a hastily thrown together initiative to paper over the cracks in the next few weeks...
No money has been spent on the FQs on my unit for several years and slowly but surely they are deteriorating as a result. As someone who has been a landlord of a property as well as a DHE tenant I don't know how they get away with the service they provide. I can't help but feel that the estate is being deliberately run down do reduce occupancy levels to the point where it can be argued that quaters aren't needed any more and the whole lot can be sold off to civilians. Or pehaps the more rational explanation is that the original sell-off was an ill-conceived plan to raise a quick buck with insufficient regard to the long term consequences, but now that MoD realise this it's all too late and too expensive to do anything about it.
At least it's encouraging to see this becoming an issue in the media, perhaps we'll get a hastily thrown together initiative to paper over the cracks in the next few weeks...
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You only need to look at EX USAF Upper Heyford to see how to waste an asset. All the single quarters were modernised when the USAF was there, better than Holiday Inn , Modern hospital, bowling alley the works all just sat there empty for several years rotting away.
No need for an extra runway at heathrow heyfords is used for parking cars.
Thames valley tonight more on the Brize Accom at 18:00 approx
No need for an extra runway at heathrow heyfords is used for parking cars.
Thames valley tonight more on the Brize Accom at 18:00 approx
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US Bases
Tacr2man,
You make a good point, but if UH was the same format as Bentwaters and Woodbridge (ie a small piece of the USofA) then there would have been serious infrastructure issues with taking it on. Back in '92 there was the beginning of a plan to relocate many deployable units (and maybe even the Harrier Force, since in those days they were the "deployable" FJs) to Bentwaters/Woodbridge - but despite the initial "bravo, good idea chaps" the simple fact that these small pieces of USofA were fully wired with US power (110 volts) and US telecomms meant that the exorbitant infrastructure costs to bring them to UK standards were a key factor in binning the plan.
You make a good point, but if UH was the same format as Bentwaters and Woodbridge (ie a small piece of the USofA) then there would have been serious infrastructure issues with taking it on. Back in '92 there was the beginning of a plan to relocate many deployable units (and maybe even the Harrier Force, since in those days they were the "deployable" FJs) to Bentwaters/Woodbridge - but despite the initial "bravo, good idea chaps" the simple fact that these small pieces of USofA were fully wired with US power (110 volts) and US telecomms meant that the exorbitant infrastructure costs to bring them to UK standards were a key factor in binning the plan.
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The private sector who bought up and sold on the Married quarters seemed to have sorted the problem and made a profit.
There is another example just off the A52 about 20 red brick, I would think officers quarters empty Wharton is it?
At heyford youve got the london- birmingham rail line just off the end of the runway (almost parallel) and the M40 J10 about 3 miles
There is another example just off the A52 about 20 red brick, I would think officers quarters empty Wharton is it?
At heyford youve got the london- birmingham rail line just off the end of the runway (almost parallel) and the M40 J10 about 3 miles
Ask the question ?? Would an MP live in the accomodation for two years, if yes ok then, if NO why is he or she not complaining about the situation. HM Forces should not have to accept anything less than the man in the street.
Call the local enviromental health, building inspectors and the Health and Safety Inspectorate. Crown Immunity was abolished for the NHS some years ago, was it not the same for the Armed Forces ???? Most organisations esp the HSE will accept an anonymous tip off, or ask someone like BAFF to contact them.
Service personnel need the same conditions as the rest of the population living outside the fence, the vast majority who do not have to put their lives on the line on operations, and still have to worry about their family at home.
Call the local enviromental health, building inspectors and the Health and Safety Inspectorate. Crown Immunity was abolished for the NHS some years ago, was it not the same for the Armed Forces ???? Most organisations esp the HSE will accept an anonymous tip off, or ask someone like BAFF to contact them.
Service personnel need the same conditions as the rest of the population living outside the fence, the vast majority who do not have to put their lives on the line on operations, and still have to worry about their family at home.
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Looking at some of the photo's this morning I can't relate any of them to RAF Married Quarters that we ever occupied (Hullavington .... Wahn .... St. Eval .... Biggin hill .... Northolt) ...... handing over a Quarter to the Barrack Warden was a fearfull project if you tried to get away with anything less than perfection ..... everything had to be spotless ...... not a bin or pot missing, the Lino like a mirror, etc etc ...... if something needed decorating we did it .....
I remember my Grandfather retiring (ex Sqd Ldr) to become Barrack Warden in Locking ...... a fearfull gentleman indeed .....
I remember my Grandfather retiring (ex Sqd Ldr) to become Barrack Warden in Locking ...... a fearfull gentleman indeed .....
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Sadly .....
Sadly, IMHO many of the problems with the current standard of much the S&FA occupied by the Army are almost entirely their own fault.
Sadly, the policy of continuing to invest in improving/maintaining this estate often appears to have been curtailed and the result has been a gradual deterioration in their overall quality - particularly in the single accommodation for the junior ranks.
Having worked alongside the Army and seen how some of the troops behave, I can fully understand why so much Army single accommodation is so bad - put simply, they seem all too keen to trash the place at every opportunity.
Sadly, IMHO many of the problems with the current standard of much the S&FA occupied by the Army are almost entirely their own fault.
Sadly, the policy of continuing to invest in improving/maintaining this estate often appears to have been curtailed and the result has been a gradual deterioration in their overall quality - particularly in the single accommodation for the junior ranks.
Having worked alongside the Army and seen how some of the troops behave, I can fully understand why so much Army single accommodation is so bad - put simply, they seem all too keen to trash the place at every opportunity.
Secondly, the ex-RAF accom being handed over to the Army is in itself approximately 70 years old. RAF Colerne for example, was built at the same time as RAF Scampton, and even in RAF hands, Scampton is a decaying pit by all accounts. Topcliffe is a shed of a place. Dishforth was largely rebuilt for the AAC, Upavon vastly changed, North Luffenham another RAF backwater, the list goes on. It is not as though the RAF has relinquished decent accomodation; granted because it didn't have any in the first place.
Thirdly, trashing the accomodation at every opportunity is 1) in keeping with the finest traditions of the Service (blazing pianos anyone?), 2) billed to the miscreants, or collectively billed as barrack damages and most importantly 3), mildew on a decaying ceiling is hardly in the same bracket as puking in the ablutions.
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I can't say we ever moved into anything much lower in standard than we would be happy to hand over .... perhaps today, the post of Barrack Warden has gone to the dogs ....
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Hobie,
But the advent of the digital camera has saved us hundreds on cleaning at move out. 'Go to the Video Tape' is proof is that we ONLY bring the place up to the standard we were given on move in, dated pictures to prove it!
...and finally, I am getting pis**ed off at those in the public that appear to believe SFA/SLA etc are free or at 'reduced' rates. When will MoD's corporate comms or PR (or whatever they are called) actually re-educate the critical public of their perceptions of the military family?. The thread on the BBC feed-back line supports the view held by a large portion of the icecream licking public. As I understand it, a consideration in setting the military wage (X factor is it??) takes into account the so called reduced housing costs associated with those who may have to utilsed the DHE (or whatever they are called today) service.
But the advent of the digital camera has saved us hundreds on cleaning at move out. 'Go to the Video Tape' is proof is that we ONLY bring the place up to the standard we were given on move in, dated pictures to prove it!
...and finally, I am getting pis**ed off at those in the public that appear to believe SFA/SLA etc are free or at 'reduced' rates. When will MoD's corporate comms or PR (or whatever they are called) actually re-educate the critical public of their perceptions of the military family?. The thread on the BBC feed-back line supports the view held by a large portion of the icecream licking public. As I understand it, a consideration in setting the military wage (X factor is it??) takes into account the so called reduced housing costs associated with those who may have to utilsed the DHE (or whatever they are called today) service.
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Hobie
There was a delight of a Barrack Warden there in the mid-80s, if my memory serves he was Irish. Was that Grandfather? Be straight with him and he'd back you to the hilt while turning a Nelsonian eye if necessary. BS him and you paid.
There was a delight of a Barrack Warden there in the mid-80s, if my memory serves he was Irish. Was that Grandfather? Be straight with him and he'd back you to the hilt while turning a Nelsonian eye if necessary. BS him and you paid.
I lived in Brize OMQ prefabs in the mid-90s, and had no shower. I asked DHE that, if I paid for a shower unit (and I would even leave it there when I moved), would they fit it? Silly me - of course they wouldn't. The rumour when we lived there was that the prefabs had been 'lifed' to 1985, so were 10 years overdue for replacement even back then. The airmen's flats were/are apalling, but having recently seen the AMQ patch at Digby, it's a close second.
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Hobie,
...and finally, I am getting pis**ed off at those in the public that appear to believe SFA/SLA etc are free or at 'reduced' rates. When will MoD's corporate comms or PR (or whatever they are called) actually re-educate the critical public of their perceptions of the military family?. The thread on the BBC feed-back line supports the view held by a large portion of the icecream licking public. As I understand it, a consideration in setting the military wage (X factor is it??) takes into account the so called reduced housing costs associated with those who may have to utilsed the DHE (or whatever they are called today) service.
...and finally, I am getting pis**ed off at those in the public that appear to believe SFA/SLA etc are free or at 'reduced' rates. When will MoD's corporate comms or PR (or whatever they are called) actually re-educate the critical public of their perceptions of the military family?. The thread on the BBC feed-back line supports the view held by a large portion of the icecream licking public. As I understand it, a consideration in setting the military wage (X factor is it??) takes into account the so called reduced housing costs associated with those who may have to utilsed the DHE (or whatever they are called today) service.